I've been a little depressed on how argumentative and insulting the Arch community can be.
Honest question, how does the Gentoo community compare?
Gentoo's attitude, vs Arch
Message
It contains humans so it can suffer the same issues.
However because each Gentoo install is completely unique as oppose to a binary distro the mentality of tinkering helps keep the forums and irc pleasant.
Every now and again a topic will arise that polarises the community(ffmpeg Vs libav was interesting)
However because each Gentoo install is completely unique as oppose to a binary distro the mentality of tinkering helps keep the forums and irc pleasant.
Every now and again a topic will arise that polarises the community(ffmpeg Vs libav was interesting)
Last edited by Naib on Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#define HelloWorld int
#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
Print 0;
#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
Print 0;
- NeddySeagoon
- Administrator
- Posts: 56100
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pauldotknopf,
Welcome to Gentoo
You will find a lot of help here. The old hands pitch the help just out of your reach, so you have to learn too. Keep that in mind.
Gentoo is a toolkit you use to design and make your own distro. Gentoo is the portage package manager and the gentoo repository. Everything else is upstream.
That structure makes every Gentoo install unique.
In turn, that shapes the style oh help that its possible to provide. There are common problems with common workarounds. There are also issues that will be unique to your install because nobody else has ever done it that way. Even with stable Gentoo.
e.g. libreoffice on Gentoo has over 250,000 ways to be configured. Some are more common than others. They can't all be tested.
Different user skill levels are tolerated well. If you post a problem, you may well be told to RTFM but the help will also point to the relevant section of the friendly manual.
It saves posting it all here. It can take a while for the helpers and helpee to find the right level to work at.
Then, the forums are in English, thats not everyones first or even second language.
As Naib says, there are some political topics here too but politics is discouraged in help topics.
We have a long running thread about systemd, now well into its 3rd part.
There is no need to read or post in topics like that if you don't want to.
Like every community, we have our share of what the Americans call 'assholes'.
They are usually called out and eventually discouraged from participating if they fail to learn.
Welcome to Gentoo
You will find a lot of help here. The old hands pitch the help just out of your reach, so you have to learn too. Keep that in mind.
Gentoo is a toolkit you use to design and make your own distro. Gentoo is the portage package manager and the gentoo repository. Everything else is upstream.
That structure makes every Gentoo install unique.
In turn, that shapes the style oh help that its possible to provide. There are common problems with common workarounds. There are also issues that will be unique to your install because nobody else has ever done it that way. Even with stable Gentoo.
e.g. libreoffice on Gentoo has over 250,000 ways to be configured. Some are more common than others. They can't all be tested.
Different user skill levels are tolerated well. If you post a problem, you may well be told to RTFM but the help will also point to the relevant section of the friendly manual.
It saves posting it all here. It can take a while for the helpers and helpee to find the right level to work at.
Then, the forums are in English, thats not everyones first or even second language.
As Naib says, there are some political topics here too but politics is discouraged in help topics.
We have a long running thread about systemd, now well into its 3rd part.
There is no need to read or post in topics like that if you don't want to.
Like every community, we have our share of what the Americans call 'assholes'.
They are usually called out and eventually discouraged from participating if they fail to learn.
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
In my experience Gentoo community is more friendly against newcomers.
I guess Arch forums mods are fed up with help vampires. I've seen too many topics binned there because some newcomer asked a question without enough details. Instead of binning the topic it would be more appropiate to just ask more details.
I don't know the current status. It's been quite long since I've used Arch or posted their forums.
I guess Arch forums mods are fed up with help vampires. I've seen too many topics binned there because some newcomer asked a question without enough details. Instead of binning the topic it would be more appropiate to just ask more details.
I don't know the current status. It's been quite long since I've used Arch or posted their forums.
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00100001- mrbassie
- l33t
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- Location: Go past the sign for cope, right at the sign for seethe. If you see the target you've missed it.
Very friendly in my experience (although I only interact through the forums).
Pretty much the worst you can expect is to be asked to provide more information or, if you did provide enough but no'one knows how to help, you might not get a reply.
I've never seen a new user not get a welcome.
In terms of discussion, I can recall one or two people getting a bit out of hand with eachother on one occasion but overall everyone is at the very least civil 99% of the time.
Off the wall however...that's where all the banter happens so a reasonably thick skin might be advisable in there.
Pretty much the worst you can expect is to be asked to provide more information or, if you did provide enough but no'one knows how to help, you might not get a reply.
I've never seen a new user not get a welcome.
In terms of discussion, I can recall one or two people getting a bit out of hand with eachother on one occasion but overall everyone is at the very least civil 99% of the time.
Off the wall however...that's where all the banter happens so a reasonably thick skin might be advisable in there.
I installed Arch on exactly one box. I got my forum login, and after browsing there awhile I abandoned the whole thing. I still have my account, but have never posted.
Arch has some of the best Linux documentation available. I use it for any boxes I maintain. However their forum is so sanitized I'm afraid to post. Rather than put up with that I use distros where people can post questions without worrying about some sort of reprimand.
Arch has some of the best Linux documentation available. I use it for any boxes I maintain. However their forum is so sanitized I'm afraid to post. Rather than put up with that I use distros where people can post questions without worrying about some sort of reprimand.
- jonathan183
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:37 pm
I last posted on the Arch forums in 2015, tbh if I were still using Arch I would still use the forums. Systemd put me off Arch and caused issues for a system which had otherwise had very few problems for years.
I think provided you ask reasonable questions and show you have tried to sort things out first then either forum is friendly ... things may have changed.
I think provided you ask reasonable questions and show you have tried to sort things out first then either forum is friendly ... things may have changed.
Re: Gentoo's attitude, vs Arch
We lick each others asses every day and we love itpauldotknopf wrote:I've been a little depressed on how argumentative and insulting the Arch community can be.
Honest question, how does the Gentoo community compare?
Seriously now.... The old wisdom says you can't be your own judge. You've probably heard this one before, so you know that me (a stranger to you) expressing my feelings towards myself would result on a completely useless answer.
If it's useless, then what's the point of asking? Just stick around and see for yourself.
Unless you're actually testing us for something not related to the question you asked. Well, nice try then. I guess you succeeded. Please be kind enough to share the results once you're done with processing your data.
Let me help you: viewtopic-t-1065458-highlight-politics+systemd.htmlI've never seen users arguing.
Mind that this is the 3rd part already. I think the mods here split it after every 30 pages of bitching with 20 posts per page, and there were like 3 or 4 of those running in parallel.... IMO it's a truly stunning volume of arguing regarding just one simple matter.
Re: Gentoo's attitude, vs Arch
Great. Now one of the guys from those threads who wants the top score is going to migrate that slugfest over here. Thanks.szatox wrote:Let me help you: viewtopic-t-1065458-highlight-politics+systemd.html
Mind that this is the 3rd part already. I think the mods here split it after every 30 pages of bitching with 20 posts per page, and there were like 3 or 4 of those running in parallel.... IMO it's a truly stunning volume of arguing regarding just one simple matter.
- Fitzcarraldo
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Re: Gentoo's attitude, vs Arch
Yes, but they are not real bun fights, though.szatox wrote:Let me help you: viewtopic-t-1065458-highlight-politics+systemd.htmlpauldotknopf wrote:I've never seen users arguing.
Mind that this is the 3rd part already. I think the mods here split it after every 30 pages of bitching with 20 posts per page, and there were like 3 or 4 of those running in parallel.... IMO it's a truly stunning volume of arguing regarding just one simple matter.
Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog
Not in the support forums.szatox wrote:We lick each others asses every day and we love it
People who can split things are watching, and you can flag it if things get derailed.1clue wrote:Great. Now one of the guys from those threads who wants the top score is going to migrate that slugfest over here. Thanks.
I've used arch for many years and still have a box which uses it. Not to bad mouth Arch or the community but just stating my opinion:
I feel the Gentoo community is much friendlier in general and also considerably more user centric than Arch. Not to say that the Arch community is hostile and that they ignore users. Not at all. Just that Gentoo is considerably better in these aspects in my opinion. Ironically Gentoo also seems more friendly to "Noob" users only putting in a small to moderate effort. The Arch community seems to expect a lot more from users and if you aren't putting in at least a moderate amount of effort you will probably get called out (rightly or wrongly I leave that to you to decide) for it in some way. The Gentoo community OTOH only seems to do this when a user is putting in a ridiculously small amount of effort into learning the distro or helping themselves. e.g. not reading the news items presented by Portage after a developer specifically told them they should in five different replies specifically to them, etc.
As far as user centric I think that can be seen in the choice Gentoo still offers user. For instance myself I have been running systemd on Gentoo for many years. Most Gentoo users do not run systemd but I have had zero problems with running it myself and the support is very good. OTOH the Arch developers got together many years ago and basically told the users that "we are switching to systemd and that is all there is to it". You didn't really get much choice.
Also philosophically there are other differences between the communities. I already spoke of the differences in the attitude towards users vs developers but there are also differences in the forums. I feel the Arch forum is significantly more heavily moderated than the Gentoo forums. Sometimes moderation happens for a difference of opinion -- usually with the topic being sent to a special area. Gentoo forums OTOH seems to welcome the controversy and the mods rarely intervene unless it is clearly warranted.
Again, I'm not bad mouthing Arch or the community. Just stating the truth. To me Arch and the community are still great. It is my #2 distro after Gentoo.
I feel the Gentoo community is much friendlier in general and also considerably more user centric than Arch. Not to say that the Arch community is hostile and that they ignore users. Not at all. Just that Gentoo is considerably better in these aspects in my opinion. Ironically Gentoo also seems more friendly to "Noob" users only putting in a small to moderate effort. The Arch community seems to expect a lot more from users and if you aren't putting in at least a moderate amount of effort you will probably get called out (rightly or wrongly I leave that to you to decide) for it in some way. The Gentoo community OTOH only seems to do this when a user is putting in a ridiculously small amount of effort into learning the distro or helping themselves. e.g. not reading the news items presented by Portage after a developer specifically told them they should in five different replies specifically to them, etc.
As far as user centric I think that can be seen in the choice Gentoo still offers user. For instance myself I have been running systemd on Gentoo for many years. Most Gentoo users do not run systemd but I have had zero problems with running it myself and the support is very good. OTOH the Arch developers got together many years ago and basically told the users that "we are switching to systemd and that is all there is to it". You didn't really get much choice.
Also philosophically there are other differences between the communities. I already spoke of the differences in the attitude towards users vs developers but there are also differences in the forums. I feel the Arch forum is significantly more heavily moderated than the Gentoo forums. Sometimes moderation happens for a difference of opinion -- usually with the topic being sent to a special area. Gentoo forums OTOH seems to welcome the controversy and the mods rarely intervene unless it is clearly warranted.
Again, I'm not bad mouthing Arch or the community. Just stating the truth. To me Arch and the community are still great. It is my #2 distro after Gentoo.
I'm active in both forums/communities.
Gentoo does not have that much derivative distros (there are some i know) as Arch Linux.
It's very common that a Manjaro/Parabola/Arch-Anywhere...and so on, users trying to solve issues asking on the Arch BBS. Not even have a clue how to do a Arch Linux install.
Gentoo is simpler in that perspective, not being binary distribution.
Iv'e been helped a lot through Arch BBS and Gentoo forums, and am a recovering help vampire
But i do agree that comments like "Please post your xxx.conf or do you think i can read your mind" and likewise (fairly common on the Arch BBS) is totally unnecessary and only puts people down.
On the other hand, there are questions like:
Subject: "HELP!!!!!!!"
Topic: "I can't get x to start, please help how to fix it."
Gentoo does not have that much derivative distros (there are some i know) as Arch Linux.
It's very common that a Manjaro/Parabola/Arch-Anywhere...and so on, users trying to solve issues asking on the Arch BBS. Not even have a clue how to do a Arch Linux install.
Gentoo is simpler in that perspective, not being binary distribution.
Iv'e been helped a lot through Arch BBS and Gentoo forums, and am a recovering help vampire
But i do agree that comments like "Please post your xxx.conf or do you think i can read your mind" and likewise (fairly common on the Arch BBS) is totally unnecessary and only puts people down.
On the other hand, there are questions like:
Subject: "HELP!!!!!!!"
Topic: "I can't get x to start, please help how to fix it."
Not as many, but i would say 27 including dead ones is plenty. Doubt many Chromium OS users will wander here though.tuggbuss wrote:Gentoo does not have that much derivative distros (there are some i know) as Arch Linux.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distributi ... _on_Gentoo
That was a lot. I knew 2 (Calculate Linux and Sabayon)P.Kosunen wrote:Not as many, but i would say 27 including dead ones is plenty. Doubt many Chromium OS users will wander here though.tuggbuss wrote:Gentoo does not have that much derivative distros (there are some i know) as Arch Linux.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distributi ... _on_Gentoo
Well, try this:
1. Find a bug
2. Fix the bug
3. Report the bug
4. Wait nearly two years.
5. Get a smart ass remark about "supposed use"
6. Forget ever filing a bug again.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/597324
1. Find a bug
2. Fix the bug
3. Report the bug
4. Wait nearly two years.
5. Get a smart ass remark about "supposed use"
6. Forget ever filing a bug again.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/597324
- John R. Graham
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I generally haven't found that to be the case. Take a look: 59 bugs an counting as of this writing. The majority of my bugs have gotten good responses, although it does tend to take some time.
- John
- John
I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters.
Thanks for the reminder.tuggbuss wrote:That was a lot. I knew 2 (Calculate Linux and Sabayon)
Calculate Linux is on the front-cover disk of this month's Linux User, along with Antix, a debian-based distro without the systemd cancer.
I would try it out on an old laptop (but it likely has systemdbust..)
As for the topic, I cannot comment on the relative difference. Only say that IME, the Gentoo user community, on the forums and IRC, is the most like how computing used to be, back in the 1980s, when everyone helping each other, ie being civil, was the norm, and asshat behaviour was frowned upon by wider society as well as us.
IOW: it rocks! :-)
I would have left Gentoo behind without a second thought many years ago, and on several occasions, were it not for the user community.
Best crowd in the world (if you're a geek ;)
This is down in main to the excellent moderation on these forums, imo. The ebuild "developers" could learn a helluva lot from them, and some of them do.
