Staying with KDE-4

Message

Post by **asturm** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:52 pm

Forum search: viewtopic-t-1048642.html

Even in this very same thread: viewtopic-p-7947054.html#7947054

peppev · Post by **peppev** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:33 am

The only package which I can't upgrade in my gentoo/KDE systems is kde-apps/kdepim-l10n:

[ebuild NS ] kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-15.12.3 [4.14.3-r1] USE="handbook -debug" L10N="-ar -bg -bs -ca -ca-valencia -cs -da -de -el -en-GB -eo -es -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -ga -gl -he -hi -hr -hu -ia -id -is -it -ja -kk -km -ko -lt -lv -mr -nb -nds -nl -nn -pa -pl -pt -pt-BR -ro -ru -sk -sl -sr -sv -tr -ug -uk -wa -zh-CN -zh-TW"
[blocks B ] kde-apps/kdepim-l10n:4 ("kde-apps/kdepim-l10n:4" is blocking kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-15.12.3)

* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.

(kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-15.12.3:5/5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
kde-apps/kdepim-l10n

(kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-4.14.3-r1:4/4.14::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>=kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-4.14.3-r1:4[aqua=] (>=kde-apps/kdepim-l10n-4.14.3-r1:4[-aqua]) required by (kde-apps/kdepim-meta-4.14.11_pre20160211:4/4::gentoo, installed)

The eix utility tag it with an "", so it should be possible to upgrade it, in principle, although
emerge/update doesn't attempt to merge it.

Any idea about what block it? I can see the reference to kde-apps/kdepim-meta, but I can't understand what
may be the solution.

Simply waiting?

Post by **asturm** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:07 pm

kde-apps/kdepim-meta-4.14.11_pre20160211:4 requires kdepim-l10n:4, but 15.12.3 is slot 5. You can safely ignore it, kdepim-l10n:5 will only make sense once KDE PIM 16.08 arrives in tree.

peppev · Post by **peppev** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:51 pm

genstorm wrote:kde-apps/kdepim-meta-4.14.11_pre20160211:4 requires kdepim-l10n:4, but 15.12.3 is slot 5. You can safely ignore it, kdepim-l10n:5 will only make sense once KDE PIM 16.08 arrives in tree.

Got it, nice.

Then my KDE systems looks healthy, even the only "x86 arch" left.

For others following the same path, the only "glitch" I had, was "kde-base/baloo", which had
been emerged, using the defaults, with "-minimal" and instead seems to require "minimal" in this
updated portage.

I had just to emerge it manually to fix the block.

Linubie · Post by **Linubie** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:25 pm

In order to have a clean uninstall of plasma first I checked some posting, could this be a way?

Code: Select all

emerge --ask --depclean kde-base/kdelibs $(qlist -IC 'kde-base/*') $(for name in $(qlist -IC | grep -v '^kde-base/') ; do ( qdepends -C $name | grep -q kdelibs ) && echo $name ; done)

emerge --ask --depclean kde-plasma/plasma-workspace $(qlist -IC 'kde-plasma/*') $(for name in $(qlist -IC | grep -v '^kde-plasma/') ; do ( qdepends -C $name | grep -q kdelibs ) && echo $name ; done)

After that edit config files like mentioned in the first thread:

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/etc/portage/package.mask
Code:	
kde-plasma/*
kde-frameworks/*
kde-apps/*:5	



$ grep qt[45] /etc/portage/package.use/z_misc
app-text/poppler    qt4
app-office/akonadi-server  qt4 -qt5
media-video/smplayer    qt4 -qt5
media-video/vlc                         qt4 -qt5
net-analyzer/wireshark        -qt5
net-print/hplip                                                         qt4
net-wireless/wpa_supplicant   -qt4

Obviously I'm just setting USE="qt4 -qt5" globally in /etc/portage/make.conf.

And install KDE4 with

Code: Select all

emerge --ask kde-base/kdebase-startkde

I am asking because I have several issues with multiscreen setup and some instabilities and would like to go back to KDE4.

Thank you

proteusx · Post by **proteusx** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:45 pm

@Linubie

I had your problem a couple of weeks ago and I returned to plasma 4 fairly easily:

Changed my profile to /desktop/kde
Deleted all kde related entries from my world file
Deleted global qt5 use flag, the profile sets globally qt4
No need to mask anything

Code: Select all

emerge -DuNav --newrepo kdebase-startkde

There were some conflicts (e.g. some apps need USE="-qt4 qt5") but were resolved easily by careful reading of the error messages.

Now I am back to KDE 4 not completely unscathed because I have some minor problems, mainly with dolphin.

I hope this helps.

EDIT. Fixed typo.

Hobbes2100 · Post by **Hobbes2100** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:28 pm

Earlier in this thread, genstorm answered a question:

Current kde-base/systemsettings pulls in legacy-icons, which blocks some of the dependencies of KF5 applications (like libksane or libkipi)

legacy-icons would only be pulled in if you masked the respective alternative dependency from kde-frameworks/, kde-plasma/ or kde-applications/*:5 that contains the icons as well (like libksane:5 and libkipi:5).

I didn't mask any of these dependencies. So, currnetly I'm stuck on this. I have nothing relevant in /etc/portage/package.mask/*. Yet, I'm getting:

Code: Select all

 * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
 * installed at the same time on the same system.

  (kde-base/legacy-icons-4.11.22-r1:4/4.11::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
    >=kde-base/legacy-icons-4.11.22:4[aqua=] (>=kde-base/legacy-icons-4.11.22:4[-aqua]) required by (kde-base/systemsettings-4.11.22-r2:4/4.11::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
    >=kde-base/legacy-icons-4.11.22-r1 required by (kde-apps/kwalletmanager-15.04.3-r1:4/15.04::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

  (kde-apps/libkipi-15.12.3:5/5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
    >=kde-apps/libkipi-15.12.3 required by (kde-apps/kdegraphics-meta-15.12.3:5/5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

World file kde stuff:

Code: Select all

portage # grep kde /var/lib/portage/world
kde-apps/kcachegrind
kde-apps/kdecore-meta
kde-apps/kdegraphics-meta
kde-apps/kdemultimedia-meta
kde-apps/ksaneplugin
kde-base/kdebase-startkde
kde-base/kdelibs
kde-base/kdm

The only (seemingly) relevant content in /etc/portage/package.keywords is for mlt (6.2.0-r2).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

UPDATE: I was able to "hack" around this by manually emerging kwalletmanager and libkipi:

Code: Select all

# emerge -1av libkipi
# emerge -1avq kwalletmanager

Surprising (to me!), when updating world, it choose to install

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kde-base/systemsettings

over

Code: Select all

kde-plasma/systemsettings

I think this is driven by the kde-base/kdebase-startkde (don't quote me on that - I'm hand waving!). Likely, this is only surprising because of my ignorance of the overall package architecture here.

Not sure if this will have any downstream effects, but I'm updating world and then depcleaning. I'll let you know if anything blows up in my face.

sidamos · Post by **sidamos** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:20 pm

I had to set "-kipi" in make.conf because of blockers.

Post by **asturm** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:44 am

Not necessary, see post above yours.

Hobbes2100 · Post by **Hobbes2100** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:25 pm

So, I took the plunge, logged out, restarted X and .... things fired up nicely. However, JuK is crashing on me (with barely a wimper). All it says is:

Code: Select all

juk(32495): Communication problem with "juk", it probably crashed.
Error message was: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply" : " "Message receipient disconnected from message bus without replying" "

I tried with both juk-15.12.3 and juk-16.04.3.

I can move this to multimedia or a new thread, if there isn't a "Staying with KDE-4" relevant problem here.

Anyone have any thoughts? Also, is there a handy "debugging kde app crashes" FAQ out there? A quick google search was finding stuff to debug KDE not starting -- but not debugging on an app-by-app basis.

UPDATE: Answering my own question on KDE app debugging (although I wasn't able to get a good backtrace yet):
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Qu ... Backtraces

UPDATE #2: I did solve this (to some extent). See here:
viewtopic-t-1050008.html

Best,
Mark

unK · Post by **unK** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:03 pm

I successfully managed to keep Plasma4 when updating the system a few days ago (thanks for all the tips in this thread it was relatively painless), so allow me to share a few tips:

If you use kdm, install kde-wallpapers and kde-base-artwork for kdm background and splash screen appropriately (these are currently masked and about to be moved to kde-sunset, so it's probably good to copy them to your personal overlay if you don't want to deal with kde-sunset for a while).
If you use oxygen style, new versions of KDE apps based on qt5 (e.g. dolphin, kwrite) can be made to look the same as its qt4 counterparts by:
1. Copying ~/.kde4/share/config/kdeglobals to ~/.config/kdeglobals.
2. Installing kde-plasma/oxygen (see https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591330) - note that it's easier to add kde-base/kdebase-cursors to package.provided than to install kdebase-startkde[minimal] (as -minimal pulls in kdebase-cursors).
3. Adding widgetStyle=oxygen to [KDE] section in ~/.config/kdeglobals.

proteusx · Post by **proteusx** » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:56 am

unK wrote:Copying ~/.kde4/share/config/kdeglobals to ~/.config/kdeglobals.

Excellent tip. Thank you.
This solved the problem I had with setting dolphin background colour to something other than the default blinding white.
Now I can set whatever I want with system settings and then copy it over to ~/.config/kdeglobals.

unK wrote: ... note that it's easier to add kde-base/kdebase-cursors to package.provided

I also needed to add kde-base/kstyles to package.provided

Post by **asturm** » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:09 pm

You may want to add this to the wiki.

unK · Post by **unK** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:20 pm

proteusx wrote:
unK wrote: ... note that it's easier to add kde-base/kdebase-cursors to package.provided
I also needed to add kde-base/kstyles to package.provided

Right, the ticket I pointed to too gets rid of that block though (it's already merged into portage) as kde-base/kstyles do not conflict with kde-plasma/oxygen[-qt4].

I also noticed that you don't need kde-plasma/plasma-integration and if .config/kdeglobals is deleted, qt5 packages still use the same style as qt4 ones. I seems there are some subtleties there I do not know about.

augustin · Post by **augustin** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:37 am

https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-ite ... table.html

How long will it actually be possible to stay with plasma 4?

I'm relying on some Plasma 4 widgets for which there is no apparent Plasma 5 alternative.
How easy would it be to port a Plasma 4 widget to Plasma 5?

one is a python script:

Code: Select all

import os, sys
from PyQt4.QtCore import *
from PyQt4.QtGui import *
from PyQt4 import uic
from PyKDE4.plasma import Plasma
from PyKDE4.plasmascript import Wallpaper
from PyKDE4.kdecore import *
from PyKDE4.kdeui import *
from PyKDE4.kio import *
from PyKDE4.knewstuff import *

Post by **asturm** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:30 am

In Portage, not much longer. Think end of November, when the next iteration of Plasma is hopefully going to be stabilised and solving multiscreen issues.

PyQt5 exists. For pykde, the situation looks grim. pykde5 hasn't really picked up development: https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=pykde5.git

augustin · Post by **augustin** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:53 am

asturm wrote:In Portage, not much longer. Think end of November, when the next iteration of Plasma is hopefully going to be stabilised and solving multiscreen issues.

PyQt5 exists. For pykde, the situation looks grim. pykde5 hasn't really picked up development: https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=pykde5.git

Thank you asturm.

marax_faraii · Post by **marax_faraii** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:35 am

At first I was really, really cranky for being "forced" to upgrade to plasma 5 but now I'm on plasma 5.8.2, frameworks 5.27.0 and qt 5.6.2 and I'm really happy where KDE is going and how it all works. Sure, there's still a lot of work needed to be done but this, to me is the DE that
has the potential to be (if not already) the greatest DE there ever was. It's absolutely amazing!

And the more of us that gets on the wagon, file good bug reports when we stumble on something the better it will become.

proteusx · Post by **proteusx** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:29 pm

@marax_faraii

I disagree.

There are still many functions that work perfectly in KDE 4 that either have no equivalents in Plasma 5 or simply do not work as well.

For example, in Plasma 5, it is not possible to have different widgets, Folder Views, wallpapers etc., in the Virtual Desktops. The KDE people say they will not fix this and recommend to use Activities to do this.

My set up is a triple screen arrangement with 3 Activities, each with four Virtual Desktops, each of which has its own different Folder Views and screen backgrounds. At present there is no way to do this in Plasma 5.

I intent to stay with KDE4 for as long as possible and then, unless Plasma 5 is fixed, I will move away from KDE.

sidamos · Post by **sidamos** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:55 pm

When I tried Plasma 5 in April, there were too many issues for me. Are they fixed now?

* crashes of the lockscreen because of segfault in libqt5sql (lots of bug reports, no solution) and a text written over itself to use some systemd tool to unlock after the crash
* crash of plasma workshell
* window contents suddenly destroyed (with Compositing enabled)
* the return of the problems with ALT-TAB (multi monitor)
* sddm with less features than kdm regarding multiple sessions
* no easy VNC solution

augustin · Post by **augustin** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:09 pm

I tested Plasma 5 for the first time today.
- many settings don't seem to be imported from KDE4 (e.g. keyboard layouts).
- Virtual desktops have disappeared. I cannot set any virtual desktops. There is an open bug about it, that is about as old as Plasma 5 itself.
- Many plasmoids have not bee ported to Plasma 5, including some that I relied a lot upon.
- alternative plasmoids for plasma 5 feel rough and unpolished, quickly hacked together.
- positioning plasmoids on the desktop can be a tricky business, with the position of the plasmoid being way away from its supposed shadow box.
- I had to google to find the solution to perform a simple task like removing a plasmoid or resizing it.
- The default plasma theme (breeze?), window decorations, icons, pointers, are ugly as hell. Fortunately, Oxygen is still available.
- impossible to resize vertically or horizontally a maximized window by grabbing one of its sides.
- I have not yet tested the importation of KDE4 activities to Plasma 5 (crossing fingers...).

KDE developers can take all the time they want to polish KDE5... but it'd be nice if we had had the choice to stay behind with KDE4 until such a time when there is feature parity between the 2 major versions.

Actually, this is one of my major disappointment with Gentoo. I was under the impression that the use of SLOTS allowed for several major versions of a single software can be installed at the same time. However, reading comments here and looking at the portage trees, I keep reading/seeing that previous ebuilds are being removed from the tree as newer versions are being introduced. Basically, we are being prodded forward, without any real choice to stay behind....

Is there a full KD4 overlay?

Why can't KDE Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 be installed at the same time?

Post by **asturm** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:18 am

Just defining a slot does not solve anything when upstream does not support it.

Wrt Plasma-4 to Plasma-5 settings migration - you can largely forget about that. Applications, yes, but not the desktop.

Post by **asturm** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:20 am

sidamos wrote:When I tried Plasma 5 in April, there were too many issues for me. Are they fixed now?

With a multi-monitor setup, you can savely delete your experience from back in April. I'd suggest Plasma-5.8.2 and Qt-5.6.2.

augustin · Post by **augustin** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:39 am

Thank you asturm.
I'll take things as they are. And if I'm still not happy, I can ask for a refund!

SLOT is a gentoo concept. What do you mean that upstream (KDE?) does not support it?

For those interested, there is a legacy KDE overlay:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay:Kde-sunset
with KDE SC 4.14.3 added recently https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title ... on=history

Post by **asturm** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:44 am

augustin wrote:SLOT is a gentoo concept. What do you mean that upstream (KDE?) does not support it?

Defining SLOT by itself does not make things coinstallable. What can work for a small library would be a huge task for the Plasma desktop, since upstream does not support side-by-side installation - conflicts galore. Not even thinking of KDE Applications and 3rd party package breakage... In fact, KDE Frameworks are (mostly) side-by-side installable out of the box so that they do not conflict with kdelibs4, testament to both types of Applications still being present on our systems simultaneously. So that's what upstream did prepare for.

And btw, Qt4 is already a liability with recent GCC and boost versions, so it's high time to get off that train.

Staying with KDE-4

Resolving Blockers (legacy-icons/libkipi ... again)

JuK Crash