I don't want install kde-4.*

[apiaio]

I would like to keep my system updated.

localhost portage # emerge -uDNvp world

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

emerge: there are no ebuilds built with USE flags to satisfy ">=dev-python/PyQt4-4.5[dbus,sql,svg,webkit,X]".
!!! One of the following packages is required to complete your request:
- dev-python/PyQt4-4.5.4-r4 (Change USE: +sql +svg +webki

After enabling above USE in make.conf or package.use emerge wants to upgrade into kde-4.*. I would like to stay with kde3.*.
Does it mean that sooner or later we wiil be forced to switch into kde-4?

[SamuliSuominen]

Yes, everyone should be moving to KDE4.

If a KDE3 package has issues, it will be removed instead of fixed.
Also, KDE3 support for programs where it's optional, will be removed.

This is because it's not maintained by upstream or Gentoo anymore.

[pappy_mcfae]

I guess it's time to tuck away those KDE3 ebuilds. Oh, and you can keep that KDE-4 crap at bay with this /etc/portage/package.mask file:

Code: Select all

# Just to make sure absolutely sure kde-4 stays off machine.

>=app-office/kpresenter-2.0.0
>=app-office/koffice-meta-2.0.0
>=app-office/krita-2.0.0
>=app-office/koffice-libs-2.0.0
>=app-office/kword-2.0.0
>=app-office/karbon-2.0.0
>=app-office/kchart-2.0.0
>=app-office/kplato-2.0.0
>=app-office/kspread-2.0.0
>=app-office/kexi-2.0.0
>=kde-base/konsolekalendar-4.0.0
>=kde-misc/kdiff3-0.9.94
>=kde-misc/kshutdown-2.0_beta4
>=app-cdr/k9copy-2.1.0
>=kde-base/kde-meta-4.0.0
>=kde-base/kdelibs-4.0.0
>=app-misc/strigi-0.5.11
>=app-office/akonadi-server-1.0.0
>=dev-libs/soprano-2.1
>=kde-base/akonadi-4.0.0
>=kde-base/akregator-4.0.0
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>=kde-misc/plasmoids-0.2
>=kde-misc/powerdevil-1.2.0
>=kde-misc/yakuake-2.9.4
>=media-gfx/digikam-0.10.0_beta2-r1
>=media-sound/amarok-1.90
>=media-sound/phonon-4.2.0
>=media-video/kmplayer-0.11.0_rc4
>=media-video/mplayerthumbs-1.1
>=net-misc/smb4k-0.10.0
>=net-p2p/ktorrent-3.1.3
>=net-wireless/kdebluetooth4-0.2
>=x11-themes/gtk-engines-qt-1.1
>=x11-themes/plasma-themes-0.2

Blessed be!
Pappy

[swimmer]

@ssuominen: is there already a solution for syncing your bluetooth phone with korganizer in kde-4?

In kde-3.5 I'm using kitchensync for that task and so far I've learned that this is not possible yet in kde-4 ... so how can you remove kde-3.5 and take away this possibility from users who rely on that?!? Sorry - but I still can't get over this ... took me too long to get the syncing process working to my needs :-/

Best regards and thank you very much for your great efforts on making Gentoo better!!!
swimmer

[John R. Graham]

...
Also, KDE3 support for programs where it's optional, will be removed.

This is because it's not maintained by upstream or Gentoo anymore.

Is this really true?

KDE 3.5 is the more mature version of KDE. For more conservative users, this is the recommended version of KDE.

Since it's still recommended, my assumption is that it's still supported. In any case, as KDE4 just went stable in Gentoo, isn't it a bit premature to start removing KDE3 support from things?

- John

[Jaglover]

Well, long time ago I installed KDE for my wife. She is used to it. KDE-4.* fails to load. She asked what the heck I mess with her computer. I tried to explain software becomes obsolete. She asked: WHY? Dudes, I didn't have an answer. Normally I just run routine world upgrade over SSH, she even doesn't know. I don't think I'm gonna run eclean distfiles any time soon.

[Roman_Gruber]

we will have to accept the ways how the developers think and do.

Well I hope for me especially, Gnome 3.0 wont be such crap like kde4. I have tried kde4 and some things are ok, but if kde3 will fade away, we will have to accept it. Because there will be bugs in kde3 and they wont be fixed soon.

[pappy_mcfae]

No, I don't have to accept what the devs do without a bit of saying, "I don't think so." That's why I have a /usr/local/portage directory. That is why I've recently placed all the 3.5.x ebuilds, and removed all the >KDE-4 ebuilds, and helper programs in those directories.

And yes, I do feel it's madness to get rid of perhaps the most stable WM just so the maddened crowd can get some twisted delight out of running a Linux WM that looks like Vista. If it worked better than Vista, I might be interested.

But it doesn't.

So, you can count me among those who will keep KDE-3.

One would think after all the broken promises on the KDE-3 front, I'd be just about over Gentoo. I'm not. Just because others feel that they have to rush to the "latest and greatest" doesn't mean I have to give up what I have with Gentoo. Nope. That's why I like Gentoo. If you know it well enough, what the devs do can be completely ignored.

Blessed be!
Pappy

[John R. Graham]

++

Well said, sir!

- John

[pappy_mcfae]

Thank you!

::putting away soap box::

Blessed be!
Pappy

[gerard27]

I've never seen this in >5 years of Gentoo.
I now have both 3.5 and 4 on my box.
From time to time I try to change 4 to my liking.
So far I've no succes.
When we went from kde2 to 3 now that was an improvement.
I would really like to use 4 but not the way it runs now.
Gerard.

[Jaglover]

@Pappy,
it's not going to be easy, KDE-3.5 has problems with perl-5.10 for instence.

[pappy_mcfae]

So when it becomes an issue, I'll mask that version of perl.

To a point, I understand the woohoo over KDE4. Eye candy is always fun.

Unfortunately, it seems a reality that eye candy is pretty, but it's pretty non-functional, as well. I keep reading of basic things that just don't work with KDE-4. Not a day goes by that I don't see something about it breaking itself. And I'm supposed to just happily place the failing mess that is KDE-4 on my machine because the desktop that works is being thrown on a trash heap.

For what reason?

If KDE-3.5.10 sucked so bad, why does it seem there are so many die-hard enthusiasts? Because it didn't suck. Unlike KDE-4, KED-3.5 works right out of the box. No need to do special gymnastics. No Gnome-like failures. It worked right from the time I set it up to now.

The same can not be said for KDE-4. I tried it, and it sucked. Not only did it suck, it messed up my KDE-3 install. And I'm supposed to move to a sucky WM because everyone else thinks it's cool? And the fact that I lose what already works is to be ignored?

I'm not that kind of person. I want functionality, not pretty. I want a windows manager that manages windows, not one I have to pray doesn't blow up all over itself and everything else on my computer.

I accept that will make it harder. So what? I could technically freeze my setup at this point, and still have a better running setup than the dedicated followers of eye-candy fashion. If KDE-3 gets completely removed from portage, I'll just switch to Xfce4. At least I'll have functionality.

Blessed be!
Pappy

[Bluesquare]

I just returned to gentoo after a 4 year windows vista exile. Kde-4 seems to be working fine for me, out of the box, what's the big problem?

[larand54]

Times are changing,
Windows 7 looks interesting, and I believe you should not experience that size of bad suprises with this system. They usually take care of backward-compatibility.

I'm afraid that linux may loose a lot of users for a while, with this new version of windows and all bad news from kde.
As long as I'm able to use KDE3.5 I'll stand with it but then, when I need to upgrade (for any reason), the replacement need to meet the requirement of a stable and responsive system like KDE3.5 at least.

I have no experience of GNOME and other alternatives but is familiar with a lot of kde-applications and don't want to replace them in the first place. But maybe I could find some alternative to kde that I could live with?

Well, I'll be fighting with 3.5 a while more but...

[gringo]

those interested in sticking with kde3, have a look to the kde-sunset overlay :

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/? ... ;a=summary

cheers

[DirtyHairy]

Without the intention to start a flamewar, I'd like to add my two cents in favor of KDE4 here as I haven't read alot in this direction in this thread . I have first encountered it on my wifes ubuntu machine and found it horrible (she shared the sentiment and moved over to gnome). Since 4.3 has been stabilized, I gave it another shot and was very pleasantly surprised. After changing some settings, nearly everything which annoyed me at first is gone (e.g. the new abomination of a K-menu), and even with some moderate desktop candy enabled, it feels snappy and actually _faster_ than KDE 3.5. If you don't like the desktop effects, fine, just switch them off, it's even a tad faster then.

I consider myself something like a power user, using the machine all day and working mostly via the keyboard on many desktops with many terminals and applications and have yet to encounter an instability or crash, and the only problem (compositing mode broken after being temporarily deactivated by powerdevil while xscreensaver is running) was easily worked around (disable the automatic suspension of compositing). The handful of KDE 3.5 applications (kprinter, amarok, k3b, kaffeine) which I'm still using continue to work without a flaw, and, as a whole, the desktop feels actually better than KDE 3.5 did for me. So, no complaints here.

I can understand actively that maintaining both branches would be a pain in the a** for the gentoo developers and, even if upstream is still maintaining it (a question which kde.org failed to answer at least for me), I'm pretty sure that support will be dropped in the near future. So, like it or not, deprecating KDE 3.5 looks like the correct move to me. If you don't like it, then there's still gnome, xfce and friends which are viable alternatives - after all, you're not bound to a single desktop environment on linux.

[Cyker]

Well my main problem is KDE4 doesn't seem to work properly on VNC and apparently doesn't like not having dbus/hal too.
That and I *really* *really* hate the interface. (OS/2 and Windows 3.1 Program Manager launchers ftw! Death to increasingly stupid start bars!!! ).

(<rant>Seriously, why do people keep having to 'innovate' the damned interface? Haven't they heard of "If it ain't broke don't smegging break it!"?!<rant>)

*ahem* Anyway, I'm not sure whether I should just keep using KDE3 or go through the painful and fraught move to gnome or xfce, or even abandon DE's altogether and go oldsk00l with a WM. (Would miss the file managers tho' :S Drag'n'drop is still lightyears behind Windows and Mac tho' so the loss won't be as painful as it could be...!)

Luckily I've already learned the hard way that unless you want to be led by the nose and be subject to random arbitrary changes to the tree, you HAVE to maintain a custom overlay. I'm picking up and unmasking ebuilds as SSuominen hardmasks them (Only 5 so far! ), so I could stick with KDE3 for a while.

edit: Thanks for the sunset link gringo; That'll help a lot!

[Section_8]

I've been on kde 3.5 forever and was dreading the conversion to 4. Now that I've spent some time tweaking it, I've gotten just about everything working the way I want and it's growing on me.

I've even come to appreciate one "feature" I originally despised - that new kmenu with those big icons and painful navigation. This is because of its search box, which gets focus when it opens. After configuring a hotkey to it, I can launch just about anything with a few keystrokes: META-S -> (1st few keys of app) ->Enter. This is faster than I could find most apps with a mouse in the old menu.

[pappy_mcfae]

(<rant>Seriously, why do people keep having to 'innovate' the damned interface? Haven't they heard of "If it ain't broke don't smegging break it!"?!<rant>)

Absolutely. I understand the need for innovation. I know the desire to have our computers seem to be more than what they are, computers. I know that new things come up all the time, and there has to be allowances made for such.

However, this issue seems to me another case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There is absolutely no reason to dump the KDE-3 only version of kdiff3 or kshutdown. None! It's picayune.

Instead of letting KDE3 users alone, we continue to be forced to grow our /etc/portage/package.mask and /etc/portage/package.unmask just to keep KDE-4 off our machines, or keep KDE-3 programs that WORK! How Microsoft.

I don't really need an overlay, though. I've already made my overlay. Now I can have KDE-3 until I get completely tired of it and switch back to Xfce4.

Blessed be!
Pappy

[baaann]

I've been on kde 3.5 forever and was dreading the conversion to 4. Now that I've spent some time tweaking it, I've gotten just about everything working the way I want and it's growing on me.

I've even come to appreciate one "feature" I originally despised - that new kmenu with those big icons and painful navigation. This is because of its search box, which gets focus when it opens. After configuring a hotkey to it, I can launch just about anything with a few keystrokes: META-S -> (1st few keys of app) ->Enter. This is faster than I could find most apps with a mouse in the old menu.

+1

You don't actually need to configure a hotkey, ALT+F2 -> (1st few keys of app) ->Enter, works by default

Well my main problem is KDE4 doesn't seem to work properly on VNC

I was really concerned about the update on a FreeNX server, but KDE4 has been running since the weekend with up to five users and so far they seem happy with it, particularly the file search in Dolphin.

[keet]

It's been years since I really used any version of KDE 3, so I wonder, how is it better than KDE 4? I'm asking this mainly of proponents of KDE 3.5.x, since I've used KDE 4 recently, but its minute-long load time led me back to Openbox. Maybe I was grossly misconfiguring it, but it shouldn't take over a minute to load when I have a quad-core C.P.U., 4GB of R.A.M., and a more or less fast hard drive. Maybe I should also ask, how long are your KDE 4.3 load times, and how do KDE 3.5 ones compare?

[Cyker]

Well my main problem is KDE4 doesn't seem to work properly on VNC

I was really concerned about the update on a FreeNX server, but KDE4 has been running since the weekend with up to five users and so far they seem happy with it, particularly the file search in Dolphin.

FreeNX is a 'proper' Xserver, but VNC uses the equivalent of a fairly old XFree86 (Not even X.org!) and is missing a lot of X extensions that were optional in KDE3.5 but far less optional in KDE4 and it causes all sorts of weird behaviour.

Supposedly someone was working on an updated VNC that supported the latest X.org extensions and even GL, but I haven't heard anything new and I doubt it will support the tight extensions for a while. (Also it needed a PCIe video card to accelerate GL, but this computer does not have one at all!)


So how long y' reckon KDE4 will last? I reckon we'll be having this same conversation again around the time the Olympics comes here

I'm just thankful I don't have to go through this crap with bash!

[baaann]

Supposedly someone was working on an updated VNC that supported the latest X.org extensions and even GL, but I haven't heard anything new and I doubt it will support the tight extensions for a while. (Also it needed a PCIe video card to accelerate GL, but this computer does not have one at all!)

I have read that this is being pursued by the TigerVNC project which released version 1.0 in August

http://www.tigervnc.org/

So how long y' reckon KDE4 will last? I reckon we'll be having this same conversation again around the time the Olympics comes here

Now that I'm starting to find my way around, it is a lot more comfortable to use. My initial thought that Dolphin had been dumbed down so as to be virtually useless in comparison to Konqueror has been proved wrong and I am using it increasingly. Anyway fingers crossed for the future

I'm just thankful I don't have to go through this crap with bash!

Wow, interesting thought scary!

[kowal]

Gringo is just this a matter of

Code: Select all

layman -a kde3

those interested in sticking with kde3, have a look to the kde-sunset overlay :

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/? ... ;a=summary

cheers