texlive-2008 & tlmgr

Message

grahn · Post by **grahn** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:33 pm

Hi

I just did a basic install of texlive-2008. I put texlive-2008 and all the masked dependencies every failed ``emerge texlive'' would have told me to /etc/portage/package.keywords until the emerge successfully ran through.

However, I cannot find the texlive manager (tlmgr) which would allow me to add and update LaTeX packages. tlmrg doesn't seem to be part of texlive-core-2008. So, which ebuild does tlmgr belong to?

I'd appreciate your help very much.

Regards,
Alex

emerald · Post by **emerald** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:47 pm

Why would you want to clutter up your system with portage-managed packages (installed via emerge) and other non-portage-packages, especially updates and such? The USE flags and LINGUAS variable should provide more than enough flexibility to choose exactly the parts you want and they are being kept up-to-date too. So using an external package manager is hardly recommendable.
Whether use portage for the whole texlive system or only use the texlive manager, but not both.

grahn · Post by **grahn** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:51 am

emerald wrote: The USE flags and LINGUAS variable should provide more than enough flexibility to choose exactly the parts you want and they are being kept up-to-date too.

There are about 1700 macro-packages on CTAN, (almost) everyone maintained by another person. How will a handful of ebuilds be able track the evolution of this archive?

Alex

emerald · Post by **emerald** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:02 am

The TexLive LaTeX distribution, as distribution, contains several hundred LaTeX packages from ctan, all with their respective version. Since TexLive is updates now and then it includes newer versions as well, so you have your upgrade-path. If you are looking for a package, check if it is included in TexLive already, if not, grab the package from ctan and put it into /usr/local/... for keeping it separate from portage managed stuff. It can be a real pain to find the culprit if something is not working correctly because of different versions of the same package installed in different locations.

Btw, Linux/GNU consists of several hundred packages too, but you don't have to go to every location by yourself and install the package since in a distribution it's all together, same for TexLive too (TexLive is like tetex successor, since the tetex distribution is not maintained anymore).

Onanymous · Post by **Onanymous** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:10 pm

emerald
are you using latex yourself?

I am just curious because portage simply does not do the job tlmgr does. with portage I can install some bundle (there several of them available) of TexLive classes most of which I do not and will never need. With tlmgr I can seamlessly add the individual classes right at the compile time, without downloading them manually, putting to latex tree, and updating the TexLive environment after each missing class download. If you get the latex document from somewhere else there can be dozens of packages missing in my install, and then it is really a pain in the ass to get everything working without tlmgr.

few · Post by **few** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:16 pm

app-portage/g-ctan does what you want. But it's still experimental. See [1].

[1] https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-7 ... gctan.html

emerald · Post by **emerald** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:22 pm

I'm using latex myself too, up till now I've not yet had problems with the texlive ebuilds in portage. For very special requirements (tex files from other people who are using 'strage' classes) I put the required classes tohether with the .tex files so they are used instead of the global ones. But this happens so very seldom that I seldom need to put newer/other versions in a local repository.

And about the unused classes, they use a little space on my harddisk, but it's not that i require the space so much that I have to clean them out, so.... they idle and I use them whenever necessary.

Onanymous · Post by **Onanymous** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:51 pm

yes, I know there are many ways to bypass the problem, but why creating it? My point is that I do not understand why not letting people to do it the easy way, the way texlive developers consider proper, the way all the others except gentoo (and apparently slackware) users are doing it.

emerald · Post by **emerald** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:29 pm

If you want to let tlmgr manage everything (not that i know tlmgr well), assume a multi user system with many people using latex. Whether everyone needs root access on the system to use the tlmgr or all packages will only be installed locally for every user so many packages are duplicates? Root access for everyone is a security concern so i hardly think it's appropriate, everything installed locally is a waste of space.

But, if you need to use tlmgr why don't you use it? just put dev-tex/texlive-core (and 'required' packages) in /etc/portage/profile/package.provided and use tlmgr to install your texlive. But don't, never complain if any package won't merge because of missing latex classes.

Besides, what the texlive developer/maintainer consider proper is not of much interest for a distribution, a package manager for every second package to be installed it not maintainable on an average system. You yourself can choose whatever you like and maintain it that way but don't force distribution maintainer to follow your way.
(Btw, I'd rather have one package manager manage _all_ packages in my system than many managing just pieces of the system, it will become hell very soon.)

Onanymous · Post by **Onanymous** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:20 pm

I never thought about administrating latex installation on a multi-user system. That indeed can be a hassle, but an application with thousands different plugins just can not be easily and effectively managed for multiuser environment, neither with portage. I see it as a drawback of latex flexibility. You either have duplicates or bunch of unused files, or admin with proper hands and complicated scripts to reinstall duplicates to the root latex tree. Anyway in that case admin can simpllly forbid tlmgr for users, or give some group access to latex tree and tlmgr, or... whatever. it is not a reason to remove it from ebuild, imho.

just put dev-tex/texlive-core (and 'required' packages) in /etc/portage/profile/package.provided and use tlmgr to install your texlive

will texlive be kept to date if I do so?

But don't, never complain if any package won't merge because of missing latex classes.

Do not quite get this, but I promise not to.

Btw, I'd rather have one package manager manage _all_ packages in my system than many managing just pieces of the system, it will become hell very soon

It is a nice wish, I totally agree on that. the thing is that portage just does not properly manage latex classes. I think it is just very misleading to call the tlmgr the package manager, that word `package' has a different meaning for texlive, it is rather a plugin, not exactly, not sure.... well for example in kde I can download and install plasma widgets right from panel options, and for latex tlmgr is way more important.
In the end I want to have a freedom to screw my own system, that is basically why I am running linux and gentoo in particular.

emerald · Post by **emerald** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:31 pm

Onanymous wrote:
just put dev-tex/texlive-core (and 'required' packages) in /etc/portage/profile/package.provided and use tlmgr to install your texlive
will texlive be kept to date if I do so?

In this case portage will not look at any texlive pieces you've put into the package.provided file, so updating (and possibly reinstalling) all packages contained therein is yours to be done by yourself. Since you prefer tlmgr to do the job you can have it doing the job.
If you want to keep portage managing some core packages (e.g. latex program files) then just don't enter them in the package.provided file and portage will take care of it. Everything you want managed with tlmgr just enter it into the mentioned file and portage will assume the packages are installed accordingly and not care about it anymore.

V-Li · Post by **V-Li** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:46 pm

app-portage/g-ctan should do what you want, although a bit limited. Wait for the 2009.1 release (probably next week, announced on planet.gentoo.org and https://launchpad.net/g-ctan).