Announcing the 'Stage 4 project'

Message

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:09 am

I plan on deploying Gentoo Linux in order to provide my customers with the best (Linux) computing experience possible. To make fast deployment possible I will create a i686 stage4 tarball. I plan on sharing these tarballs with the community to provide a quick alternative install option. In this thread I'll I will publish all information regarding this project.

Click here to download stage4-i686-2007.0

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md5sum: 879d9ccdbcd6fb0f87d6d699c580be5b
sha512sum: 19864172d6eb19121fd5a9497e40ecaabe7825a7b8e58c0ac4e17c7edda71a9199d688aa828b66fb60c59c00e5e136069d7a07b12f8667edbe9bf377e62fc375

Click here to download stage4-i686-2007.0_x11

Click here to download stage4-i686-2007.0_kdebase

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md5sum: b6c1559d54f5bc2b7ff8da7f528b6510 
sha512sum: 97ff76fb03cf6b45b76ba0a96068dd3a368047c2f10ba19ef9c0ec8d6a6fa7f7ea97ed977206033559a5e3a8b6db4a8420379339460e56338f4aff7e90af78a8

Infrastructure
-The stage 4 will be downloadable through ftp and bittorrent.

Update schedule
-Stage4 tarballs gets updated (with emerge world) twice a year with each new Gentoo release.

Three types of stage 4 tarball's
-stage4-i686-2007.0 / Basic system
-stage4-i686-2007.0_X11 / Basic system with X
-stage4-i686-2007.0_KDE / Basic system with X + KDEbase

All stage 4's should include a readme documenting all changes.

make.conf

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# These settings were set by the catalyst build script that automatically
# built this stage.
# Please consult /etc/make.conf.example for a more detailed example.
CFLAGS="-march=i686 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" 
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
# This should not be changed unless you know exactly what you are doing.  You
# should probably be using a different stage, instead.
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"
USE=""
INPUT_DEVICES="evdev joystick keyboard mouse acecad aiptek calcomp citron digitaledge dmc dynapro elo2300 elographics fpit hyperpen jamstudio magellan microtouch mutouch palmax penmount spaceorb summa synaptics tek4957 ur98 vmmouse void wacom"
VIDEO_CARDS="nv vesa apm ark chips cirrus cyrix dummy epson fbdev glint i128 i740 i810 imstt mach64 mga neomagic nsc r128 radeon rendition s3 s3virge savage siliconmotion sis sisusb tdfx tga trident tseng v4l vga via vmware voodoo"
PORTAGE_ELOG_CLASSES="info warn error log"
PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM="save"

SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"

Building the stage 4

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# rm /etc/ssh/ssh_host* 
# rm -iv /etc/resolv.conf

A stage4.excl with the following content:

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/etc/ssh/ssh_host_*
/home/*
/mnt/*
/media/*
/lost+found
/proc/*
/sys/*
/tmp/*
/usr/portage/distfiles/*
/var/tmp/*

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# tar cvjfp /mnt/usb/stage4.tar.bz2 / -X stage4.excl

Phase 2
-the secure 686 binhost server project

See also
-Which USEflags should I use for my portage binhost?

-How do I set up a secure binhost?

Post by **Banana** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:16 pm

so if you install stage 4 you have a desktop enviroment instlled too ?

meka · Post by **meka** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:47 pm

I'm interested. Tell me if you need a build machine(s). I have 2 x86_64 machines, one is Intel, the other AMD.

zxy · Post by **zxy** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:50 pm

A wish from me: "do use latest gcc/binutils/glibc" (i mean ~arch)
As (at least) I hate recompiling the whole toolchain (many times) after untaring stage3. It takes one day just to come to installing the first additional package.

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:54 pm

*_-=Banana=-_* wrote:so if you install stage 4 you have a desktop enviroment instlled too ?

I intend to provide 3 stage 4 tarballs:
1) A basic system after a vanilla install without X
2) A basic system after a vanilla install with X
3) A basic system after a vanilla install with KDE

With vanilla install I mean an install exactly following the Gentoo handbook, nothing extra gets added.

meka wrote:I'm interested. Tell me if you need a build machine(s). I have 2 x86_64 machines, one is Intel, the other AMD.

Thanks for the support! I''ll let you know when If need help

zxy wrote:A wish from me: "do use latest gcc/binutils/glibc" (i mean ~arch)
As (at least) I hate recompiling the whole toolchain (many times) after untaring stage3. It takes one day just to come to installing the first additional package.

To be honest I rather would to focus on stability. What is the advantage latest gcc/binutils/glibc? Coming to think of it I might create an unstable stage 4 tarball. Would that be a good solution?

zxy · Post by **zxy** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:58 pm

Aniruddha: ~arch or stable arch?

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:30 pm

zxy wrote:Aniruddha: ~arch or stable arch?

The unstable stage 4 would be ~arch.

gerard27 · Post by **gerard27** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:10 pm

What about hardware?
Should this tarball check for the necessary drivers etc?
Gerard.

hirakendu · Post by **hirakendu** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Btw, what is the size of the tarball you are looking at? I have made such a tarball and it weighs about 1.9GB - of my system of size ~6.4 GB. It has both kde and gnome (without gnome and many optional stuff would be ~1.2 GB). Its a full blown system (including compiled kernel sources - nothing deleted to save space or something). Here are more details :

http://hirakendu.mooo.com/gentoo/neon-s ... /make.conf
http://hirakendu.mooo.com/gentoo/neon-i ... gelist.txt

I earlier used to keep the tar file in a slax livecd and use that to untar it to hard drives for installing. I now use squashfs images which is used in my own livecd, and can be unsquashfs'ed similarly - of course, the additional advantage being that one can preview whats in the image and how it works and feels, before going about the install.

likewhoa · Post by **likewhoa** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:30 pm

we at gentoo experimental are currently building a giant binpkg list, come to #init or #gentoo-chat on IRC for more info. I currently have binpkgs for
Core2,Opteron,Athlon-XP,Pentium-M, & Pentium3 at http://weboperative.com/gentoo/downloads/packages

If you plan on providing stage4 tarballs just make sure to use sane cflags, i.e -march=x86-64 for amd64 systems and -march=i686 for i686 systems.
also provide a make.conf with each tarball so that users know what flags it was built with..

eitherway, you are doing a good thing by sharing binpkgs this will help "rescue" and or safe alot time for users in the end.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:31 pm

Aniruddha,

The Gentoo seeds project was trying to do something similar, I'm not sure if its still alive or not.
Maybe you want to join forces with them ?

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:59 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:Aniruddha,

The Gentoo seeds project was trying to do something similar, I'm not sure if its still alive or not.
Maybe you want to join forces with them ?

Thanks for the info ned. At first sight the Gentoo seeds project looks dead

. I send a mail to Stuart Herbert (who is Lead ([Founder]) at stuartATgentooDOTorg which got "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender". However there are some (3) people #gentoo-seeds. The link to the overlay is dead.

What can I do to resurrect this project?

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:20 pm

Aniruddha,

Contact one of the other devs on the project page ...
I don't know how far the project got, it may never have released any code even.
If it did, it would have been under an Open Source licence of some sort.

Should the project be alive, join in, if not make use of anything thats useful to you, as I said, it will be open source.

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:28 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:Aniruddha,

Contact one of the other devs on the project page ...

Stuart Herbert is the only dev listed

.

I don't know how far the project got, it may never have released any code even.
If it did, it would have been under an Open Source licence of some sort.

Should the project be alive, join in, if not make use of anything thats useful to you, as I said, it will be open source.

Do you know who I can contact to help me further?

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Aniruddha,

I think the the creation of seeds was discussed on the gentoo-dev mailing list, which is archived around the web.
I tried to search my own archive but after 30 min, its still going or Balsa has died.

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:12 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:Aniruddha,

I think the the creation of seeds was discussed on the gentoo-dev mailing list, which is archived around the web.
I tried to search my own archive but after 30 min, its still going or Balsa has died.

Too bad you can't search the gentoo-dev archive. If you can resurrect balsa I would appreciate it if you could give me a contactperson

.

GenTreK · Post by **GenTreK** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:42 pm

You can use Jigdo to distribute it.

http://atterer.net/jigdo/

This will save you >90% on bandwidth.

I think I missunderstood your plan. Its actually more like this, right?

The tarball will be the basic recipe (which will be small) and you will be using emerge to download and compile as usual,...

GenTreK · Post by **GenTreK** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:49 pm

Aniruddha wrote:3) A basic system after a vanilla install with KDE

I'm not quite sure what to make of this article:

GENTOO 2005.1 Installation Script/Walk-Through.

from a favorite site of mine: http://linuxhelp.150m.com

There were apparently people at Gentoo who were very much against the idea of an easy KDE install. I have no idea why, though.

seren · Post by **seren** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:48 am

For all those interested in bleeding edge please keep a eye on my guide i will be shortly adding stage4 tar balls for a base install.

stay tuned

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:55 am

GenTreK wrote:You can use Jigdo to distribute it.

http://atterer.net/jigdo/

This will save you >90% on bandwidth..

Thanks for the tip!

I think I missunderstood your plan. Its actually more like this, right?

The tarball will be the basic recipe (which will be small) and you will be using emerge to download and compile as usual,...

Yes and no, the main purpose is to have a working Gentoo install up and running asap. By providing different stage 4 option's (with X or with KDE) you can have a working desktop without extra compiling necessary. To update your system or to extra install software compiling is is still required.

However at the same time I am working on a binhost solution for these stage 4 installs. This binhost should contains binaries that are updated daily be used to quickly update your system or to install extra software without the need for compiling.

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:12 am

Gerard van Vuuren wrote:What about hardware?
Should this tarball check for the necessary drivers etc?
Gerard.

I am depending on genkernel for the necessary drivers. You can compare it with the way the Gentoo livecd works.

hirakendu wrote:Btw, what is the size of the tarball you are looking at? I have made such a tarball and it weighs about 1.9GB - of my system of size ~6.4 GB. It has both kde and gnome (without gnome and many optional stuff would be ~1.2 GB). Its a full blown system (including compiled kernel sources - nothing deleted to save space or something). Here are more details :
http://hirakendu.mooo.com/gentoo/neon-s ... /make.conf
http://hirakendu.mooo.com/gentoo/neon-i ... gelist.txt

That depends on the on the stage 4. The basic version shouldn't be to big. The stage 4 X-version neither, but the stage4 KDE might become large. Thanks for the links and the tips!

likewhoa wrote:we at gentoo experimental are currently building a giant binpkg list, come to #init or #gentoo-chat on IRC for more info. I currently have binpkgs for
Core2,Opteron,Athlon-XP,Pentium-M, & Pentium3 at http://weboperative.com/gentoo/downloads/packages

Thanks for letting me know about the Gentoo experimental project. I'll be on irc later today to find out more. Maybe it is a good idea to mention your project in the wiki?

GenTreK wrote: There were apparently people at Gentoo who were very much against the idea of an easy KDE install. I have no idea why, though.

That is not what I read. It sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me:

One surprising thing I discovered along the way, is that some of the Gentoo group have an interest in "accidentally" making the installation process much more difficult than it need be. Let me relate the following incident.

In Gentoo 2005.0, the command emerge --usepkg kde installs the KDE desktop. However, this command does not work in 2005.1. To find out what gives, I registered with the Gentoo forum forums.gentoo.org. After some time I was told that a new command emerge --usepkg kde-meta had been introduced. Why a new command? Why not the natural old command, which after all, now has no purpose at all? I thought this rather strange, but stranger things were yet to come.

I imagined that a lot of people would be interested in this information and started a thread about it at the forum. To my great surprise, it was deleted (well, actually, it was moved from the installation section, to some hidden corner of their site). So I started another thread, with the same result. This time I was informed that the thread had been moved because the topic had been dealt with in some other post (that had also been quite deliberately hidden away from public view). I repeated this process some 7 or 8 times. Then they banned me.

Think about it, the Gentoo people were so desperate to remove my posts from view, that they hid 7 threads, using 7 times the disk space, rather than have one visible to the public. Actually, the last thread was locked and it quietly sunk out of sight. Since it was doomed to be lost among unvisited/unread pages, the administration felt no need to move or delete it, as they had the other threads. Besides leaving the locked thread there for a few hours was "proof they were not involved in censorship."

So the Gentoo forum administration succeeded in hiding all threads related to the correct installation of KDE.

Some good did come from my persistence, however, as someone added the correct command to the Gentoo KDE installation page the next day. I know this because I saved copies of the page on successive days (just before, and just after, it was added). When last I looked, it had not been added to the installation manual.

There is plenty of evidence that certain Gentoo people are deliberately (and surreptitiously) crippling their product. Why might this be? Well, for an answer to that, you will have to ask them.

Wow, this is all even weirder than I at first imagined. I visited Ubuntu's forum, ubuntuforums.org, and started a thread which essentially just pointed to this page. Guess what? Yes, it was deleted. I re-posted it in another section and guess what? Yes, it was deleted again. In the end, I must have posted it there some 8 or 9 times, and 8 or 9 times, it is was deleted. I was then temporarily banned for, you guessed it, "spamming". How sick is that?

And I have just been banned from www.linuxforums.org/forum/ for posting it there just ONCE!

Other forums that have banned me for pointing to this page are knoppix.net and linuxquestions.org. In case you are wondering, all the mentioned forums (except for linuxquestions.org) banned me before I added the section on Javascript movies.

http://linuxhelp.150m.com/gentoo/2005.htm

rmh3093 · Post by **rmh3093** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:37 pm

Maybe we could take over the seeds project if its dead, i've wanted to help make stage4's for a long time now, this is a good project.

Make sure you get palidus and einit in those stage4's

Kasumi_Ninja · Post by **Kasumi_Ninja** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:44 pm

rmh3093 wrote:Maybe we could take over the seeds project if its dead, i've wanted to help make stage4's for a long time now, this is a good project.

That's what I have been thinking

Make sure you get palidus and einit in those stage4's

Personally I prefer to stay as close as $upstream (stage3) as possible. the stag 4 I have in mind should be minimally modified with all additions documented.

gringo · Post by **gringo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:14 pm

@Aniruddha : let me know if you need some more buildboxes, i have access to several x86(_64), ppc(32) and arm machines.
And just in case anyone here is interested, i´m already providing some G4 binaries

cheers

rmh3093 · Post by **rmh3093** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:19 pm

gringo wrote:@Aniruddha : let me know if you need some more buildboxes, i have access to several x86(_64), ppc(32) and arm machines.
And just in case anyone here is interested, i´m already providing some G4 binaries

cheers

I would say then you are trying to build stage 3.5 then not a stage4, but anway...

I would like to see live stage3.5/4's generated nightly (and alternate package managers and init system) would be awesom to have in a stage file