Wishlist for Gentoo 2005.1

Message

Ruzbeh · Post by **Ruzbeh** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:31 pm

A compiling progess bar would be so awesome.

Maedhros · Post by **Maedhros** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:54 pm

Ruzbeh wrote:A compiling progess bar would be so awesome.

Mmm, that and built-in genlop-style functionality to estimate how long the ebuild should take to compile...

playfool · Post by **playfool** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:15 pm

Ruzbeh wrote:A compiling progess bar would be so awesome.

and impossible.

Deranger · Post by **Deranger** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:16 pm

SoLC wrote:
Ruzbeh wrote:A compiling progess bar would be so awesome.
and impossible.

What makes that impossible?

playfool · Post by **playfool** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:20 pm

Oktane wrote:
SoLC wrote:
Ruzbeh wrote:A compiling progess bar would be so awesome.
and impossible.
What makes that impossible?

You cannot possibly correctly determine how long a certain compile will take, it has been debated at great lengths.

Maedhros · Post by **Maedhros** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:34 pm

SoLC wrote:You cannot possibly correctly determine how long a certain compile will take, it has been debated at great lengths.

Thus the genlop-style estimation...

Deranger · Post by **Deranger** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:35 pm

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be very accurate.

Avenger902 · Post by **Avenger902** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:50 pm

Why do you need a freakin compiling bar?

You should know when you emerge something and it starts downloading, you can tell right away if it is gonna take a while to download by looking at the file size! (or even multiple packages):

1-5MB ~1-10 min...
5-10MB ~5-30 min...
10-20MB ~30-60 min...
(times are not accurate just an example)

and so forth... so if you can see your download for an ebuild is gonna be big and and important, do like the rest of us and emerge as you go to sleep...

Also I learned so much more from installing Gentoo via the command line vs installing the overbloated Mandrake dist. *Votes Against GUI Installer*

playfool · Post by **playfool** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:59 pm

Avenger902 wrote:Why do you need a freakin compiling bar?

You should know when you emerge something and it starts downloading, you can tell right away if it is gonna take a while to download by looking at the file size! (or even multiple packages):

1-5MB ~1-10 min...
5-10MB ~5-30 min...
10-20MB ~30-60 min...
(times are not accurate just an example)

and so forth... so if you can see your download for an ebuild is gonna be big and and important, do like the rest of us and emerge as you go to sleep...

Also I learned so much more from installing Gentoo via the command line vs installing the overbloated Mandrake dist. *Votes Against GUI Installer*

good luck, how long would it take to compile Freeciv by that standard (most of the package being graphics), just as an example.

Avenger902 · Post by **Avenger902** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:02 pm

its not a standard just an example...

dirtyepic` · Post by **dirtyepic`** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:37 am

zenparrot wrote:
thechris wrote:portage message log -- log "you should do this" messages to a screen...
I wholeheartedly agree. I rarely watch the entirety of my emerge -uDva world, do you? I'd imagine I miss quite a few of the blurbs they put in about what you may or may not to do. I often find myself looking to these forums only to find that the solution to my problem was there in my terminal, I just wasn't watching.

Either a summary of all the instructions at the end of the emerge or a log would be great!

try this on for size:

PORT_LOGDIR
This variable defines the directory in which per-ebuild logs are kept. Logs are created only when this is set and writable.

Code: Select all

-=[ /etc ]=- # echo 'PORT_LOGDIR="/var/log/emerge"' >> /etc/make.conf
-=[ /etc ]=- # mkdir -p /var/log/emerge

...emerge stuff...

-=[ /var/log/emerge ]=- # cat 2008-gconf-2.6.2.log | grep -i warning

configure: WARNING: If you wanted to set the --build type, don't use --host.
gconf-backend.c:238: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
libtool: link: warning: `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.3/../../..//libgobject-2.0.la' seems to be moved
xml-dir.c:356: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
libtool: link: warning: `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.3/../../..//libgobject-2.0.la' seems to be moved
libtool: install: warning: remember to run `libtool --finish /usr/lib'

etc. etc.

the logs get a bit large after a while (i have some over 1MB), so you may want to gzip -9 them or clean out the directory periodically.

cheers,
--de.

dirtyepic` · Post by **dirtyepic`** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:45 am

Avenger902 wrote:Why do you need a freakin compiling bar?

You should know when you emerge something and it starts downloading, you can tell right away if it is gonna take a while to download by looking at the file size!

Code: Select all

-=[ /etc ]=- # equery size glibc
[ Searching for packages matching glibc... ]
* size of sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4.20040808-r1 ]
           Total files : 3054
           Total size  : 28469.44 KiB

-=[ /etc ]=- # equery size python
[ Searching for packages matching python... ]
* size of dev-lang/python-2.3.4 ]
           Total files : 2562
           Total size  : 29147.99 KiB

-=[ /etc ]=- # genlop -t python
 * dev-lang/python

     Mon Nov  1 14:43:59 2004 >>> dev-lang/python-2.3.4
       merge time: 6 minutes and 13 seconds.

-=[ /etc ]=- # genlop -t glibc
 * sys-libs/glibc

     Mon Nov  1 02:54:29 2004 >>> sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4.20040808-r1
       merge time: 1 hour, 38 minutes and 41 seconds.

;)

Zeddicus · Post by **Zeddicus** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:54 am

miqorz wrote:Guy: Gentoo has a GUI installer? All right!!

Guy: (five hours later) So... I'm IN the system? What do I do now!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Guy: *boots into windows and opens IE to post on the Gentoo Forums*
DOODZ IM IN TEH GENTOO BUTZ I GOTS NO APPS, LYKE WHEREZ MY KDE ANDZ MOZILLER HAW HAW.

First off, it doesn't say anything about a GUI installer that I recall -- just an installer invoked by the user at boot. (you're still sitting at a bash prompt, you type 'installer' or whatever to start the process of the install)

Personally, I'd love the convenience of an installer. I've done plenty of Gentoo installs... it's not like the process is fun. (it's not hard, either -- if you think just copy/pasting from the docs is hard...)

Besides -- the mockup of the installer I saw had an option for installing Gnome/KDE ;p

For the curious: (though this was just pulled from the gentoo-installer mailing list, not a final/official thing)

http://www.openpax.net/~bluefoxicy/gentoo_install.txt

spacebar · Post by **spacebar** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:45 pm

better wireless/PCMCIA support for laptops. specifically, for me, it would be great if the cd had the firmware for the prism54 module. the driver is kindof useless without it. (i think i read there are some licensing issues with this one, but other distros have it.)

i also have a prism2 usb adapter that didn't work either.
and a 3com card--3c589x i believe. it's an old model but still.

i could never get the network up for bootstrap so i had to install gentoo with another distro's cd. that just doesn't seem right.

--D

Deranger · Post by **Deranger** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 pm

Zeddicus wrote: For the curious: (though this was just pulled from the gentoo-installer mailing list, not a final/official thing)

http://www.openpax.net/~bluefoxicy/gentoo_install.txt

Oh my fucking god! In my opinion, that makes everything more compicated and harder than using pure commandline

I like the idea, you boot into system and then you have to type "installer" or like that and then idiot-proof installer pops up

castorilo · Post by **castorilo** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:16 pm

Zeddicus wrote: For the curious: (though this was just pulled from the gentoo-installer mailing list, not a final/official thing)

http://www.openpax.net/~bluefoxicy/gentoo_install.txt

I like it. It looks very simple to use, and has the most relevant options very well organized.

nsahoo · Post by **nsahoo** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:42 am

2.6/nptl should be in as standard. 2.4 should be strongly discouraged, if not dropped completely.

Thumbs up for the devs for leaving out gcc-3.4 and reiser4. I want my compiler to work all the time and the data to be safe

boo for any kind of installers. That time better spent for something else. The problem is not only that it requires dev's time upfront, when the clueless and lazy n00bies fill up the forums and irc, good luck all. My moto on this "If you wanna use gentoo, be a good student first. Read the install docs." Then they'd not ask questions like how to add services to runlevels, or how to partition your disk etc etc. Hence, having no installer, saves a lot of gentoo community time.

Three cheers for a knoppix like cd, you need to be able to listen to some music or watch a movie while compiling your system from the beginning

Reverse dependency checking and a fast ebuild search feature should be in the priority. I am using esearch - the indexing takes half an hour on my machine (well, may be because, I use /etc/portage/* a lot, but, still). The other one .. portagedb or something doesn't index the overlay yet.

KingPunk · Post by **KingPunk** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:20 am

i hope this isn't too much of a demand, but i'd like a girlfriend when i purchase
the CD Set off of store.gentoo.org

it just aint fair!

--ok, in all seriousness now though.
have you guys ever thought about selling or bittorrenting dvd images?
as opposed to cd images? it'd be cool, atleast to have or see.
thanks,
KingPunk

KingPunk · Post by **KingPunk** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:22 am

nsahoo wrote:2.6/nptl should be in as standard. 2.4 should be strongly discouraged, if not dropped completely.

Thumbs up for the devs for leaving out gcc-3.4 and reiser4. I want my compiler to work all the time and the data to be safe

boo for any kind of installers. That time better spent for something else. The problem is not only that it requires dev's time upfront, when the clueless and lazy n00bies fill up the forums and irc, good luck all. My moto on this "If you wanna use gentoo, be a good student first. Read the install docs." Then they'd not ask questions like how to add services to runlevels, or how to partition your disk etc etc. Hence, having no installer, saves a lot of gentoo community time.

Three cheers for a knoppix like cd, you need to be able to listen to some music or watch a movie while compiling your system from the beginning

Reverse dependency checking and a fast ebuild search feature should be in the priority. I am using esearch - the indexing takes half an hour on my machine (well, may be because, I use /etc/portage/* a lot, but, still). The other one .. portagedb or something doesn't index the overlay yet.

aint nothing better than knoppix in that area, having mplayer playing a movie
off of a nfs share on my other box or something, mmm. priceless. its great ;x

John5788 · Post by **John5788** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:38 am

include a copy of RevolutionOS on the livecd and make people watch that while compiling a stage 1

nsahoo · Post by **nsahoo** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:51 am

KingPunk wrote: aint nothing better than knoppix in that area, having mplayer playing a movie
off of a nfs share on my other box or something, mmm. priceless. its great ;x

I give all due credit to knoppix and also, I believe I am being a gentoo zealot here - when I think "why should not the gentoo livecd be able to do that?" - and another can answer "because, knoppix already does that, that is why - you moron" and he would be right.

anyways. gotta go to bed.

Post by **dsd** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:58 am

KingPunk wrote:have you guys ever thought about selling or bittorrenting dvd images?

Daniel Robbins was toying with this idea the other day (for the store). i don't know if anything will come out of it, but theres a chance that it might be selling dvd sets at some point in the near future.

Deranger · Post by **Deranger** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:09 am

nsahoo wrote: boo for any kind of installers. That time better spent for something else. The problem is not only that it requires dev's time upfront, when the clueless and lazy n00bies fill up the forums and irc, good luck all. My moto on this "If you wanna use gentoo, be a good student first. Read the install docs." Then they'd not ask questions like how to add services to runlevels, or how to partition your disk etc etc. Hence, having no installer, saves a lot of gentoo community time.

That's definately true

Fuck the installers!

But hey, isn't that "Installing Gentoo" section full of that kind of questions already?

KingPunk · Post by **KingPunk** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:53 pm

dsd wrote:
KingPunk wrote:have you guys ever thought about selling or bittorrenting dvd images?
Daniel Robbins was toying with this idea the other day (for the store). i don't know if anything will come out of it, but theres a chance that it might be selling dvd sets at some point in the near future.

atleast it seems promising. hehe.
i'd gladly pay 20$ or so for a two disc set or something.

rhill · Post by **rhill** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:32 am

nsahoo wrote:2.6/nptl should be in as standard. 2.4 should be strongly discouraged, if not dropped completely.

i don't know about standard, but i'd really like to see NPTL as an optional step in the handbook (right before bootstrap.sh)

speaking of the handbook, i'd like to see a lot of work done on the part that introduces USE flags in part 1 (not part 2, that's okay). it explains what they are, and then just continues on, not really saying what to set them to and when they should be set. i think a lot of new people feel they have to go through and add 80 keywords if they want a functional system. in reality, it's better to just leave them blank while emerging the system, and only afterward start customizing. (nptl being the exception). i created all kinds of trouble for myself before i started over, only using USE="nptl -nls".

--de