Use Xorg drivers in official xorg but no longer in Gentoo?

Message

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Thu Jul 03, 2025 3:44 pm

Anyone use Xorg video drivers that are not in portage nowadays? There are a bunch of old Xorg drivers that are not in portage anymore.

Just curious if anyone uses them anymore, perhaps thins like cirrus logic, i128, s3, sis, displaylink, chips, neomagic, and others including 3dfx voodoo, on perhaps old hardware... Is it working for you or are you just opting for text only?

stefan11111 · Post by **stefan11111** » Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:29 pm

I use the xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse} drivers.
NeedySeagoon has ebuilds for them in his overlay.

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Sat Jul 05, 2025 7:30 am

How well does those work?
What do you need to do for xorg.conf to use them?
Any particular reason for not using evdev/libinput?

Goverp · Post by **Goverp** » Sat Jul 05, 2025 10:04 am

eccerr0r, Can you use the more basic framebuffer drivers? The performance will be lousy, of course.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Sat Jul 05, 2025 10:20 am

eccerr0r,

Those input drivers are in my overlay as I use them every day with a dvorak-uk keymap.
I don't have any autoblackmagic at all. It's a static /dev system, no udev or anything like that.

I suspect that the old video drivers will still work too.
Exhume the ebuilds from git, or even an old squasfs snapshot and try.
They may need EAPI bumps.
You will also need kernel support. If the kernel interface has changed it gets very difficult, unless the Xorg sources have been maintained in git.

It's only worth trying with cards you have in your parts bin.

3dfx ... that was old in mid 1990s.
Good luck.

I can pastebin my xorg.conf in a wee while. ... https://bpa.st/5R5A
That started life in 1999 :)

-- edit --

Going back to

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$ git checkout `git rev-list -n 1 --first-parent --before="2020-01-01" master`

Some old drivers, like 3dfx, are still missing.
Other are a mix of EAPI 5 and EAPI 7.
The EAPI 5 ebuilds will need an EAPI version bump as EAPI 5 support was removed a long time ago.
The EAPI 7 ebuilds may be OK. EAPI 7 support is in the process of being removed now.

The list of drivers in that checkout is

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~/gentoo-arm64/x11-drivers $ ls
metadata.xml            xf86-input-keyboard   xf86-input-vmmouse  xf86-video-ati    xf86-video-intel    xf86-video-openchrome     xf86-video-vesa
nvidia-drivers          xf86-input-libinput   xf86-input-void     xf86-video-dummy  xf86-video-mga      xf86-video-qxl            xf86-video-vmware
xf86-input-elographics  xf86-input-mouse      xf86-input-wacom    xf86-video-fbdev  xf86-video-nouveau  xf86-video-r128
xf86-input-evdev        xf86-input-mtrack     xf86-video-amdgpu   xf86-video-geode  xf86-video-nv       xf86-video-siliconmotion
xf86-input-joystick     xf86-input-synaptics  xf86-video-ast      xf86-video-glint  xf86-video-omap     xf86-video-vboxvideo

stefan11111 · Post by **stefan11111** » Sat Jul 05, 2025 12:43 pm

eccerr0r wrote:How well does those work?

I don't see a difference between xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse} and evdev/libinput.
How do you compare 2 different input driver's performance?

What do you need to do for xorg.conf to use them?

I have this in my xorg.conf, but I'm pretty sure X uses them even if I don't pass the driver name explicitly.

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Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Mouse0"
    Driver         "mouse"
    Option         "Protocol" "auto"
    Option         "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
    Option         "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
    Option         "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Keyboard0"
    Driver         "kbd"
EndSection

Any particular reason for not using evdev/libinput?

No reason really, but I also have patches for these drivers for bugs in my hardware, so I'd have to port them if I switch to evdev/libinput.

stefan11111 · Post by **stefan11111** » Sat Jul 05, 2025 12:52 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote: Those input drivers are in my overlay as I use them every day with a dvorak-uk keymap.
I don't have any autoblackmagic at all. It's a static /dev system, no udev or anything like that.

Don't know about dvorak, but you can use evdev/libinput with a static /dev.
You need something like libudev-zero, but they work.

I suspect that the old video drivers will still work too.

I tried using xf86-video-nv with my gtx 1050, but I couldn't get it to work.

xorg.conf wrote: # NVIDIA does not use DRI

Since at least a few months ago, nvidia-proprietary can use DRI: viewtopic-t-1167405-highlight-mesa.html.

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Mon Jul 07, 2025 2:59 pm

I think I still have a S3 Trio(?) PCI and 3dfx Voodoo3, not counting a boatload of ancient ATI (Mach 64), matrox (Millenium?) and nvidia (MX440) cards, but I think these work just fine with ati, matrox, and nouveau. Not counting the C&T 655xx? on the 16MB 486 which really doesn't have a chance running modern X anymore. Or the Trident ISA and ATI Mach 8 because ISA was dropped. That Mach 8 was the reason I first got into X... none of my other video cards before that was worth crap in X (the Trident was later, my other video cards then were plain VGA/SVGA (oak?) and earlier.)

I suppose I was wondering more about people getting SiSUSB and DisplayLink (not the same as DisplayPort which is something else) working. These are both USB video boards which still could be attached to "modern" computers.

stefan11111 · Post by **stefan11111** » Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:16 pm

eccerr0r wrote:

Have you tried running the old kdrive servers with those cards? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xse ... /hw/kdrive

eccerr0r wrote:Not counting the C&T 655xx? on the 16MB 486 which really doesn't have a chance running modern X anymore.

Not even with fbdev?

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:33 pm

No, a lot of this is theoretical minus the USB solutions, though I might want to resurrect a K6-233 but it has ISA slots that I want to use. Not sure if latest Gentoo would be happy with a 3.4 kernel...

The 16M Omnibook 600 probably doesn't have enough RAM to run any X apps these days with "modern" software so I won't bother trying that machine.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Tue Jul 08, 2025 5:05 pm

eccerr0r,

DisplayLink is a USB2 to VGA solution. I keep coming across it in the Raspberry Pi kernel, so its still in 6.12
I don't know SiSUSB at all.
I don't remember Xorg drivers either. Still, I probably wouldn't as I've never used this sort of hardware.

Yes, you can plug the USB end into modern hardware ... but what about the VGA end?

Going back further in git, we have

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$ git checkout `git rev-list -n 1 --first-parent --before="2016-01-01" master`
Updating files: 100% (156807/156807), done.
Previous HEAD position was 4083057b3ceb dev-util/rr: add 9999
HEAD is now at d89763ca6942 www-apps/bugzilla/metadata.xml: drop inactives, assign new proxy maintainer
roy@neddy_static ~/gentoo-arm64/x11-drivers $ ls
afb-ucode               xf86-input-mouse      xf86-video-ati        xf86-video-mga          xf86-video-s3             xf86-video-tga
ati-drivers             xf86-input-mtrack     xf86-video-chips      xf86-video-modesetting  xf86-video-s3virge        xf86-video-trident
metadata.xml            xf86-input-mutouch    xf86-video-cirrus     xf86-video-neomagic     xf86-video-savage         xf86-video-tseng
nvidia-drivers          xf86-input-penmount   xf86-video-dummy      xf86-video-newport      xf86-video-siliconmotion  xf86-video-v4l
xf86-input-acecad       xf86-input-synaptics  xf86-video-fbdev      xf86-video-nouveau      xf86-video-sis            xf86-video-vesa
xf86-input-aiptek       xf86-input-tslib      xf86-video-freedreno  xf86-video-nv           xf86-video-sisusb         xf86-video-virtualbox
xf86-input-elographics  xf86-input-vmmouse    xf86-video-geode      xf86-video-omap         xf86-video-suncg14        xf86-video-vmware
xf86-input-evdev        xf86-input-void       xf86-video-glint      xf86-video-omapfb       xf86-video-suncg3         xf86-video-voodoo
xf86-input-fpit         xf86-input-wacom      xf86-video-i128       xf86-video-openchrome   xf86-video-suncg6
xf86-input-hyperpen     xf86-video-amdgpu     xf86-video-i740       xf86-video-opentegra    xf86-video-sunffb
xf86-input-joystick     xf86-video-apm        xf86-video-intel      xf86-video-qxl          xf86-video-sunleo
xf86-input-keyboard     xf86-video-ark        xf86-video-ivtv       xf86-video-r128         xf86-video-suntcx
xf86-input-libinput     xf86-video-ast        xf86-video-mach64     xf86-video-rendition    xf86-video-tdfx

Look at that xf86-video-sisusb which you mentioned and lots of other old friends. :)

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Fri Jul 18, 2025 4:55 pm

Hmm... here's another thing, anyone able to build mesa without llvm? (no gallium)...wonder if that still works

GDH-gentoo · Post by **GDH-gentoo** » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:06 pm

eccerr0r wrote:Hmm... here's another thing, anyone able to build mesa without llvm? (no gallium)...wonder if that still works

I looked at Mesa's build system some time ago, trying to answer this exact question (I like neither long builds nor binary packages

). My conclusion at the time was that whether LLVM is required depends on which exact portions of the Mesa package you are building (selected through Meson options). Don't force LLVM yourself with e. g. -Dllvm=enabled, obviously

For example, I believe that most Gallium drivers didn't actually need LLVM, and notable exceptions were radeonsi (for AMD) and iris (for Intel). I don't know if that still applies. I might look again.

Non-Gallium drivers went to the "amber" branch of Mesa (media-libs/mesa-amber on Gentoo).

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Mon Jul 21, 2025 3:59 pm

Aaaahhhgh!!!

I tried to make an ebuild for a couple of the old drivers.

s3virge, mach64, sisusb, tdfx, displaylink seems to still compile, but s3 and tga do not... not sure why. Unfortunately I do have an s3 trio64 and a Tseng Labs card.

(and also Voodoo3, sisusb, and mach64 cards...)

GDH-gentoo · Post by **GDH-gentoo** » Mon Jul 21, 2025 10:19 pm

eccerr0r wrote:s3virge, mach64, sisusb, tdfx, displaylink seems to still compile, but s3 and tga do not... not sure why.

Want to post the build logs so that we can see how much they have bitrotted?

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 6:28 am

Seems an include file or two or three changed or something, possibly siignificant api change or something got refactored :

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libtool: compile:  i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/include/xorg -fvisibility=hidden -I/usr/include/pixman-1 -Os -march=i486 -pipe -c s3_cursor.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/s3_cursor.o
libtool: compile:  i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/include/xorg -fvisibility=hidden -I/usr/include/pixman-1 -Os -march=i486 -pipe -c s3_IBMRGB.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/s3_IBMRGB.o
libtool: compile:  i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/include/xorg -fvisibility=hidden -I/usr/include/pixman-1 -Os -march=i486 -pipe -c s3_accel.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/libs3_accel_pio_la-s3_accel.o
In file included from s3_video.c:37:
s3.h:37:10: fatal error: xf86RamDac.h: No such file or directory
   37 | #include "xf86RamDac.h"
      |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:556: libs3_accel_newmmio_la-s3_video.lo] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
s3_driver.c:57:10: fatal error: IBM.h: No such file or directory
   57 | #include "IBM.h"
      |          ^~~~~~~
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:542: s3_driver.lo] Error 1
s3_IBMRGB.c:37:10: fatal error: IBM.h: No such file or directory
   37 | #include "IBM.h"
      |          ^~~~~~~
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [Makefile:542: s3_IBMRGB.lo] Error 1
In file included from s3_cursor.c:37:
s3.h:37:10: fatal error: xf86RamDac.h: No such file or directory
   37 | #include "xf86RamDac.h"
      |          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~
compilation terminated.

hmm...seems it's referenced places and definitely should be in xorg library routines?

The trident driver has the same error and some others, mibstore.h and BT.h.

Then the next issue, this is not dependent on kernel modesetting?

GDH-gentoo · Post by **GDH-gentoo** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 12:40 pm

The code for supporting ramdac drivers was dropped from Xorg in 2019, so it looks like you are out of luck

Commit #1: ramdac: Remove ramdac drivers
Commit #2: ramdac: Remove core ramdac code

Adam Jackson wrote:External RAMDACs are a very 1996 kind of thing, this code really doesn't belong in the server.

stefan11111 · Post by **stefan11111** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 3:30 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:I keep coming across it in the Raspberry Pi kernel, so its still in 6.12

Have you tried fbturbo with your raspberry pi?
Is the performance better that fbdev?

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 3:40 pm

GDH-gentoo wrote:The code for supporting ramdac drivers was dropped from Xorg in 2019, so it looks like you are out of luck :P

Commit #1: ramdac: Remove ramdac drivers
Commit #2: ramdac: Remove core ramdac code

Adam Jackson wrote:External RAMDACs are a very 1996 kind of thing, this code really doesn't belong in the server.
:lol:

WTF. They belong with the drivers that need them :\

I wonder if I can just copy the code into the driver as a patch and it would compile/link/work fine again...

Oh it looks like Debian/Ubuntu actually ported these drivers perhaps... wonder why they weren't put back upstream??? Well, they have a libramdac.so now or something...

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel ... 58801.html

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:09 pm

stefan11111,

modesetting works well on the 64 bit Pis with

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# Enable DRM VC4 V3D driver
dtoverlay=vc4-kms-v3d
max_framebuffers=2

and VIDEO_CARDS="vc4 v3d"
At least the GPU gets used.

With (turbo)fbdev the ARM CPU plots every pixel. That's just like the Hercules graphics card for the original IBM PC :)

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Tue Jul 22, 2025 11:12 pm

Damn. I found I had a S3ViRGE (whose driver does compile) along with the S3Trio64V. Alas the ViRGE doesn't seem to work. Black Screen of Death in POST, but somehow after futzing with it a bit, it started working again!! Weird. It defaulted to 720x400 "Hercules MDA" resolution and no option to get to 1024x768 despite having enough vram...

It's SLOW in xfce4-terminal... took like 0.5 second for a character to pop up as I typed.

So I had to try other cards. The mga seems to not work quite right either in xfce4. Not sure if it's a hardware or software issue. It likewise was very slow.

My ATI/NV PCI cards appear to not work anymore??!! Seems to have failed and died, some don't even let the machine get through POST!