[split] On courtesy

[pjp]

EDIT: Split from Messed up separating /boot and ESP

(by the way, I'm she/her.)

Live that garbage out.

As I read pc_user4's comment, it was in reply to this comment of yours:

Let's give him some time to deal with the issue at hand.

No additional comments were made or in any way combative. It is common courtesy to refer to people in a polite manner. Please reconsider being the first to become combative. If everyone did that, there would be no "bullshit."

[szatox]

Pjp, I'm really happy (and a bit jealous) for you to be blissfully unaware, but let me explain... A little.

pc_user4 is a nickname which contains no information about user's sex. Which is perfectly fine, but STEM is a boys club, so that's what's I'm going to assume.
A feminine nickname is also fine and "btw, I'm a girl" is fine too, though pointing that out makes absolutely no sense without a feminine nickname in the first place.

She/her is not OK. It's a buzzword alias for problem/child, and problem/children already own twatter and reddit, demand tolerance, thought police everyone else, and they keep telling them "if you don't like our rules, go make your own platform".
Guess what, gentoo forums have been a pretty fun place for many years and I'd rather it stayed this way.

"I am" is ok. "I identify as" is not OK. If you feel the need to tell us you _identify_ as anything at all, I identify you as an invader of the woke hive mind.
If you start talking about being "inclusive", I know you will try to exclude _me_ and everyone else who won't to submit to the woke hive mind.
If you start talking about "safe spaces", I know you're going to make this space hostile towards _me_ and everyone else who won't submit to the woke hive mind.

I don't like people who join healthy communities, then take them over, and then crush them under the weight of the hive mind. I don't want to catch twatter from them. And I just gave you 4 common flags of the hive mind.

They infested (and destroyed) boy scouts. Not my problem, but it was pretty big news back in the days, so you might have heard.
They infested gaming and are pushing for AI surveillance even in _private_ games. Unsupervised in-game chat is now too dangerous to exist.
Have you heard about Starfields? In character creation panel "it's just pronounce", but apparently all mods removing this feature are getting banned.
They've completely destroyed western movies, then started pushing to turn eastern anime into the same holyweed shit nobody wants to watch even for free
And now suddenly we have them here as well. Them - plural - because she's not the first one waving red flag. And we can either shut it down before it becomes a problem, or wait, let them get the upper hand, and move on to looking for a new platform, where they will follow us again, take over, and proceed to kick us out, again.

. Please reconsider being the first to become combative. If everyone did that, there would be no "bullshit."

I prefer dealing with problems directly than sweet talking and backstabbing.
Alright, I said what I wanted to say. You'll do what you're gonna do. She'll do whatever.
Original questions have been already answered and problem solved.

[pietinger]

She/her is not OK. It's a buzzword alias for [...]

Szatox,

as you know I am not a native english speaker. I'm also not on twitter or instagram (and I'm old). Until your post today, I thought that "she/her" was a normal reference to one's gender (equivalent to "I am a woman") and I was very surprised at your reaction. After I have now googled a bit, it was explained to me that it is common on twitter to write so. What if pc_user4 is a young girl and only knows that and thought nothing of it ? Maybe you interpret too much into it?

In any case, we should not welcome new users so. Have a little more trust in the moderation, which keeps the forum healthy for 21 years.

[pc_user4]

Live that garbage out.

I only mentioned it because I found this forum to be a civil environment but this is sad to see. Not only are you attacking me for simply existing as what I was born as, but by your own logic I did "the ok thing" by saying "I am a woman". I'm not sure what triggered you about my statement or choice of words, but I hope you're able to get help with whatever it is that's bothering you.

Have a nice day,
pc_user4

[NeddySeagoon]

Team,

The same words mean different things is different versions of the English language.
Its very easy to cause offence to be taken without really trying by forgetting that English is not universal,

e.g. its a really bad idea for an English English chain smoker to stand up to get their bags out of the overhead locker after a 12 hour flight on an American Airlines flight (full of Americans) and exclaim "I'm dying for a fag".
For our American readers, "a fag" is English slang for a cigarette.
I'll just say that the Americans who heard it were not happy.

The morale of the story is tolerance of other peoples use of words. They may not be intended to mean what you read into them.

[pietinger]

[...] I'm not sure what triggered you about my statement or choice of words, but I hope you're able to get help with whatever it is that's bothering you.

We should never forget that we all live in different countries - with different conditions.

Yes, something triggered @szatox and his reaction was not appropriate. I have already expressed this in this thread. After my post, there is no reason to shoot back anymore ... Wishing someone to get help is in fact also a very personal statement ... one could even take it as an insult.

I have the wish that we now stay with the actual topic of this thread.

[pjp]

Pjp, I'm really happy (and a bit jealous) for you to be blissfully unaware, but let me explain... A little.

I would have preferred that you didn't. I was all but certain that was your problem. I tried to reduce your concern to what was communicated in text, not the subtext you added.

No concern was mentioned with your original use of "him." pc_user4 merely corrected your mistake in a courteous manner.

I see two important details in this exchange:

1. pc_user4's comment was made in a courteous manner.
2. Your response was not courteous.

In addition to being discourteous, I also believe it was disrespectful.

The rest of your commentary is irrelevant, although I hope you come to a resolution you find satisfactory.

There is really only one outcome that I hope is achievable from the current situation.

Simply put, that you interact with others in a respectful manner. That's not really negotiable.

This may include using terms as requested by someone. You aren't required to use language you aren't comfortable using. However, your choice to not use the requested terms does NOT mean you can continue using terms you were asked to not use.

Using the current situation as an example, if you do not want to use she or her, then avoid using any gender references.

You may even choose to not interact with a user.

But do keep in mind that being disrespectful is not an option.

[Leonardo.b]

Personally, I don't know any woman interested in IT. I thought seallaven was the only female user on these forums.
I wonder why.

[saellaven]

Personally, I don't know any woman interested in IT. I thought seallaven was the only female user on these forums.
I wonder why.

There are a few more that have messaged me over the years... and I know a few more who are in IT, but I know a lot more that have left the field. There was only 3 of us out of hundreds in my undergrad program back in the day.

I can tell you that I'm happier not working in IT (even if I also wear the IT hat in my business, which is also running on Gentoo - I recently migrated from Quick Books in a Windows VM to gnucash, making my entire stack Linux/free software). For me, the issue was rarely the tech (we all know how I feel about a couple controversial packages though), but the people (no, I don't need a CoC to protect me, I just don't feel like dealing with egos, antisocial behaviors, the rat race, etc).

[Leonardo.b]

Ouch. I forgot.
In Italy, I know zero girls into IT; but in Ireland, I met a lot of female IT students.

Don't speak me about Windows.
I got yet another new job this week, for the first time I'm sitting in an office, and I'm already going nuts. It's impossible to work with that Thing installed.

[szatox]

Until your post today, I thought that "she/her" was a normal reference to one's gender (equivalent to "I am a woman") and I was very surprised at your reaction.

Don't people dressing up in a black+white+red swastika in Germany risk being thrown in jail? It's just a normal set of colors.
In Poland it falls under "promoting totalitarian regimes".

Shooter players can tell when you use aimbot. Chess players can tell when they're playing against a computer. Google's checkbox can tell you're not a robot.
Having learnt English as a second language and being a pun/wordplay enjoyer I'm pretty confident in my ability to tell difference between a typo, bad English, and a flawless English of a bad neighborhood.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I intended to just disengage and see if by any chance it was an actual mistake. This really blew out way more than I expected. I'm now going back to the previous plan.
Over and out.

[NeddySeagoon]

This topic was way off topic to start with, which is why it was split.

There have been several clear warnings to stop. It hasn't happened.

Topic locked.

Two posts binned (not deleted) after permission from the respective authors.