March 2022 Gentoo Enthusiast build (serious this time)

[ibrown39]

So I’ll preface this with I know I’ve asked pretty much the same before, however this was more theoretical and the medium/use case weren’t clear. This time I really want plan on building a desktop centered around fantastic emerge, compile, and build times. I won’t be gaming on this so no need for a monster GPU.

Before most suggested a 3rd gen thread ripper but now some others have suggested some multi core Intels (i9). I see myself using this for kernel development, OS DEV work, and possibly as a distcc node. But also just to have fun.

For gaming and graphic intensive work I have an i9 + 3090, so I would think/prefer to save the majority of the budget or this build for CPU and ram. From what I understand, there are greatly diminishing returns for each significant jump in cores and memory (16cores -> 24c -> … 64c + 64gb -> 120gb+ ram) and that a 3rd gen threadripper would more than enough. Honestly a case + cpu (+ thermal handling) + ram + psu (probs hunt around for an NVME) would all Id need for it. I have a r/buildapc thread going under the same user name so feel free to pop there too if you prefer.

I’m mostly asking given the difference in suggestions. Ideally the whole build would be <$3500, better if under $3000. I’m in CO, USA and have access to microcenter. Thanks and I’ll try to respond as soon as I can. I’m open to used prebuilt workstations to building it. DMs open.

[figueroa]

Too rich for me, but what's "DMs open" mean? Also, what is the question?

[OldTango]

So I’ll preface this with I know I’ve asked pretty much the same before, however this was more theoretical and the medium/use case weren’t clear. This time I really want plan on building a desktop centered around fantastic emerge, compile, and build times. I won’t be gaming on this so no need for a monster GPU.

Before most suggested a 3rd gen thread ripper but now some others have suggested some multi core Intels (i9). I see myself using this for kernel development, OS DEV work, and possibly as a distcc node. But also just to have fun.

For gaming and graphic intensive work I have an i9 + 3090, so I would think/prefer to save the majority of the budget or this build for CPU and ram. From what I understand, there are greatly diminishing returns for each significant jump in cores and memory (16cores -> 24c -> … 64c + 64gb -> 120gb+ ram) and that a 3rd gen threadripper would more than enough. Honestly a case + cpu (+ thermal handling) + ram + psu (probs hunt around for an NVME) would all Id need for it. I have a r/buildapc thread going under the same user name so feel free to pop there too if you prefer.

I’m mostly asking given the difference in suggestions. Ideally the whole build would be <$3500, better if under $3000. I’m in CO, USA and have access to microcenter. Thanks and I’ll try to respond as soon as I can. I’m open to used prebuilt workstations to building it. DMs open.

Whatever processor you choose is a personal decision. The processor choice will affect the overall price of a completed system. If you decide to use a high end processor you need a high end board. So you can see how the price is affected by your choice.

I have owned but never built a system using an Intel CPU. AMD is my CPU of choice. Sense AMD released the Ryzen processors I have built systems based on every generation released from a 1st gen Threadripper 1950X to a 3rd gen Ryzen 9 5950x. As long as you use quality hardware your worst problem will be HEAT. The more powerful the processor, the more HEAT you'll have to deal with. As HEAT builds modern processors will auto throttle which can have serious effects on their performance.

From my experience, unless you plan on doing serious content creation or video rendering a 3rd Gen Threadripper is both overkill and a waste of financial resources, and cooling that beast will be expensive.

You'll get a lot of different suggestions because folks tend to suggest the hardware they have had the most experience with and knowledge of, me included.

My Gentoo Server
MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon (MB)
Ryzen7 2700x 8/16 (2nd GEN CPU)
32-GB GSkill (RAM)
(2) Samsung 970 EVO+, 500-GB and 1-TB (NvME's)
MSI Nvidia GTX 1070 (GPU)
Corsair 240 AIO Cooler

My Gentoo Desktop
MSI X570 MEG ACE (MB)
Ryzen9 5950x 16/32 (3rd GEN CPU)
128-GB GSkill TridentZ Royal (RAM)
(2) Samsung 970 EVO+, 500-GB and 1-TB (NvME's)
(2) WD 1-TB HDD
EVGA Nvidia GTX 1660TI (GPU)
Corsair 360 AIO Cooler

While my Desktop out performs my Server in normal day to day operations and weekly portage updates, its not buy much, usually <5 minutes. However the RAM on the desktop cost almost as much as all the hardware combined on the Server.

I am getting ready to recommission my 1st GEN 1950x Threadripper 16/32 to replace and older AMD FXA 8350x 8 Core DUAL-BOOT system, because it will be running Windows 10 only, cooling will be less of a concern.

While I buy my Mother Boards, CPU's NvME's, Cases and miscellaneous small parts mostly from Micro Center, maybe even the same store you shop at. I never purchased my RAM from them as they never have what I want/need.

Best Tango.....

[steve_v]

IMO this question could easily be rephrased as "how long is a piece of string". You want hardware recommendations for running Gentoo, but only you can find a suitable balance between price, performance, and patience.
If you want to compile chromium and co, you'll want plenty of RAM. Other than that, compile time is just a matter of raw general-purpose compute power and how much noise, heat and power consumption you're willing to put up with.

Personally, I like Intel CPUs with the best single-thread performance I can get, because I do stuff other than compiling or rendering on this box. TBH the last AMD CPU I bought was a K6-3, and they totally lost me with the bulldozer fiasco.

Last time I went with an overclocked 10900KF on air for my desktop, because there's something strangely satisfying about a machine that sounds like a tornado under load... Tastes will vary. It's pretty quick, and it cost a fair bit less than the figures you're throwing around.
There's a 233MHz Pentium MMX on my desk right now as well, and it's fine too. Patience is a virtue, and I needed something to stick a Voodoo in.
Home server? That's a dual (sandybridge) xeon. It gets along pretty well, and it was dirt cheap. Just sits in the corner and does its thing.


Did you have a specific question, or are we just rambling now?

[ibrown39]

@figueroa

DM = Direct Message. Basically I’m just looking for suggestions for a system build for optimal performance for given tasks in the allotted budget.

[ibrown39]

IMO this question could easily be rephrased as "how long is a piece of string".

Dude I get it that don’t like how I phrased the question but this a bit unnecessary.

You want hardware recommendations for running Gentoo, but only you can find a suitable balance between price, performance, and patience.

Well I’m not 100% sure what I’ll be doing with this all the time, just that it won’t be graphic intensive computations and/or not gaming. Aside from that I’m looking for an overall build that would provide a good amount of raw power for the price point. Some have suggested just going with AMD for driver support and avoiding their TR given bad thermals, overkill for my uses, and greatly diminishing returns on emerge times as the cores+memory go up. As for single vs multi threaded performance not sure. I can see myself utilizing several simultaneous VMs for various uses, but then again I could see single thread performance mattering for other tasks.

If you want to compile chromium and co, you'll want plenty of RAM. Other than that, compile time is just a matter of raw general-purpose compute power and how much noise, heat and power consumption you're willing to put up with.

Personally, I like Intel CPUs with the best single-thread performance I can get, because I do stuff other than compiling or rendering on this box. TBH the last AMD CPU I bought was a K6-3, and they totally lost me with the bulldozer fiasco.

Thank you! This is more what I’m looking for narrowing things down. I appreciate it.

Last time I went with an overclocked 10900KF on air for my desktop, because there's something strangely satisfying about a machine that sounds like a tornado under load... Tastes will vary. It's pretty quick, and it cost a fair bit less than the figures you're throwing around.

Lol

There's a 233MHz Pentium MMX on my desk right now as well, and it's fine too. Patience is a virtue, and I needed something to stick a Voodoo in.
Home server? That's a dual (sandybridge) xeon. It gets along pretty well, and it was dirt cheap. Just sits in the corner and does its thing.

I was considering a Xeon, but until now you’re the only to mention it. I’ll look more but is it because of the single core performance isn’t great or something like mobo compatibility not being ideal for desktops?

Did you have a specific question, or are we just rambling now?

Well I would say I asked a specific one before, but figured people were going to gripe. I’ve asked you some additional questions in my response. Aside from some of the snarky remarks I appreciate your input.

[ibrown39]

@OldTango

Thanks for your response! This was helpful and cleared up a bit. Especially with the TR, while the hardware
op’ness of it would appeal to me, I agree it’s thermals wouldn’t worth tempering and that the money would be better used for other components.

[ibrown39]

What do you guys think of this list?

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/NerdyKyogre/saved/TrvVFT

[NeddySeagoon]

ibrown39,

Can you really get 4 DIMMs on a Micro ATX motherboard?
All that heat in such a small space too.

All that CPU horsepower, strangled by the B550 chipset.
You will only get PCIe gen 4 to the video card.

I put together something similar in September. The same CPU on a X570 motherboard.
I only used 1TB of NVMe (PCI Gen 4) for the system. As rotating rust is quite good with large sequential files, I have 4x8TB in raid5 with LVM on top.
The half closest to the spindle is my media collection.

I can use some of the NVMe as an LVM cache to speed things up if I feel the need for speed. :)

I put 128G RAM in it too. That's on the basis that you need 2G per thread for building in RAM today. It will go up.
That's 64G, just to keep the CPU happy. I want some while it does its thing at "-j33" too, then I want to put /var/tmp/portage in RAM too.

I need to get a video card still. I'm using my old Radeon 550 until prices are sensible again.

[ibrown39]

@NeddySeagoon

Admittedly it was a suggested build from someone else. Thank you for your input, and more importantly thank you for your specific build! It seems promising.

[NeddySeagoon]

ibrown39,

I can dig out my parts list if you want but not tonight. Its late in Scotland.

[steve_v]

I was considering a Xeon, but until now you’re the only to mention it. I’ll look more but is it because of the single core performance isn’t great or something like mobo compatibility not being ideal for desktops?

Xeons bring very little over desktop-class parts, besides support for MP and ECC, and often more PCIE lanes. They're also multiplier-locked and tend to use slightly different sockets and/or HSF mounting for intentional incompatibility with common desktop parts.
If you want xeon-class features in a desktop, you're probably better served with the X(treme) series "enthusiast" stuff... But it's very, very pricey. Just Intel doing what intel does best and all that, they call it "market segmentation" IIRC.
Used (or old stock) server boards and CPUs go cheap on fleabay though, so if you want, say, 2 CPUS, 8 DIMM sockets, 14 SATA ports, and onboard IPMI (and don't mind it being otherwise kinda old) they're not a bad option.
Probably want to take that pair of 3800RPM CPU fans into account too.. AFAIK there's no such thing as a quiet server-grade cooler, and even if the mounting is compatible, most desktop coolers won't fit a dual-CPU board due to clearance issues.

What do you guys think of this list?

Like Neddy, I too squint a bit at putting such fancy CPU and memory on a relatively cheap B series motherboard, and in such a small case. I also don't like MSI, but that's a matter of taste.
To be fair though, I know next-to-nothing about this newfangled pc-shrinking trend. It might be fine. I'm in the full size conventional airflow ATX tower camp and always have been.

Aside, why the Radeon Pro? I get that it's not for gaming, but a workstation GPU seems like an odd choice to me.

[pjp]

To be fair though, I know next-to-nothing about this newfangled pc-shrinking trend. It might be fine. I'm in the full size conventional airflow ATX tower camp and always have been. ;)

Trend? What do you call a trend? Smaller and quieter has been a thing since prior to my registration date. I'd much prefer silent and unobtrusive. Although I've never seen that in DIY components. Then again, I also keep an eye out for some sort of networking device between worthless consumer software and unobtanium enterprise price. Haven't found it yet. I've partly avoid upgrading from my AMD Phenom because I don't want to deal with the ridiculous coolers that are required for modern CPUs. I mean seriously, that stuff looks like it belongs in a Christopher Guest film (perhaps A Mightier Wind).

[steve_v]

What do you call a trend?

Micro ATX and ITX have become far more popular over the last few years, even in enthusiast and gaming circles. 10 years ago anything smaller than mid-ATX for a DIY machine was pretty uncommon.
None of this holds for business desktops or OEM prebuilts of course, SFF (and all the non-standard parts that entails) have been around forever... But I think it's safe to assume that low power consumption SFF desktops are not what we're talking about here, given the mention of "[DIY] enthusiast build" and "fantastic compile times".

I've partly avoid upgrading from my AMD Phenom because I don't want to deal with the ridiculous coolers that are required for modern CPUs.

Sure. You can have cool and quiet, or you can have enthusiast performance. Unless we're talking really exotic cooling solutions, everything ends up as hot air eventually.

I expect you'd actually get away with a smaller cooler than you have on the phenom if you upgraded to something with similar performance, but in a more recent process. I mean, I don't like getting rid of perfectly good equipment either, but if cool and efficient is what you're after, holding on to old CPUs isn't the way to go about it.

Speaking of network gear, my home router/firewall is a fanless design built around a PCEngines SBC. It's actually quite nice, but again the only reason it's fanless is because it doesn't have or need a lot of computing horsepower.

[figueroa]

I think you could save a lot of money by going with half of the RAM and scale down the CPU. It's hard to effectively use 128GB RAM.

Do you really want built-in wireless networking? You'll almost always get sub-optimal antenna placement, early obsolescence, and something else more likely to fail than most other built-ins.

[psycho]

128G RAM. Wow. I've never had any problems building in 16, so thought my 32G box was probably overkill...but 128, that's more than I'd expect to be installing in anything for years. I'd have thought the CPU to be the bottleneck rather than available RAM: does 64G -> 128G really make a significant difference? I get that you can build a bookcase much more quickly if you have some room to spread stuff out, rather than attempting to build it in a closet...but once you're working in the middle of a football field, I don't understand how another field helps, when you still have to run the bits and pieces around yourself.

[pjp]

Micro ATX and ITX have become far more popular over the last few years, even in enthusiast and gaming circles. 10 years ago anything smaller than mid-ATX for a DIY machine was pretty uncommon.

I guess I've been paying attention to the segment for a very long time. Admittedly the ITX stuff wasn't easy to find. I mainly avoided it for want of replacement parts availability, particularly the PSUs. Considering that it is a niche segment of a niche market, I wonder what the sales numbers have been. Obviously there had to be enough interest 15+ years ago or it wouldn't have existed, so growth isn't at all surprising. People aren't still seeking brick mobile phones or the ones needing carry bag.

But I think it's safe to assume that low power consumption SFF desktops are not what we're talking about here, given the mention of "[DIY] enthusiast build" and "fantastic compile times".

My recollection is that those interested were after desktop and gaming usage, so it seems to be natural growth, and consequently maybe better availability.

I expect you'd actually get away with a smaller cooler than you have on the phenom if you upgraded to something with similar performance, but in a more recent process. I mean, I don't like getting rid of perfectly good equipment either, but if cool and efficient is what you're after, holding on to old CPUs isn't the way to go about it.

For compiling, anything new would have to do better. I can make do with the Phenom for a while, but investing the money to replace that performance wouldn't like make much sense. Unless I could get it something small and quiet :). As I mentioned, that was only one reason to avoid upgrading. Cost, time (figuring out what to buy), no longer interested in the DIY aspect. Mass market alternatives seem to have either proprietary designs and / or an absurd price premium for comparable or lesser quality components.

Speaking of network gear, my home router/firewall is a fanless design built around a PCEngines SBC. It's actually quite nice, but again the only reason it's fanless is because it doesn't have or need a lot of computing horsepower.

I never quite figured out their product line, and nothing really seemed suitable for a switch. Cost may have been a factor too, I don't recall (I've looked at a bunch of similar offerings, so can't recall which issues were associated with which products).

[NeddySeagoon]

ibrown39,

Here's what I have under my desk right now and my rationale.

AMD Ryzen 5950x My Phennom II lasted me 12 years. If this system lasts 12 years, I'll be 80, so it may well outlast me.
As I'm a pensioner, with a part time job right now, money for updates will be scarce one the job stops, so I don't have any upgrades in mind.
My usual advice is look in a PC mag that is about a year old and buy what it says is top of the range. Then plan for upgrades.

The 5950x is PCIe4 so it needs a PCIe4 chipset to get the best out of it. That means an X570 motherboard.
ASUS AMD Ryzen X570 ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero becase I wanted a fanless motherboard and most X570 motherboards have fans.
It also has WiFi and Bluetooth, which I will never use. Its all I could get that met the X570 fanless requirement.
Also I did not want a motherboard where the M.2 slots and SATA ports shared PCIe lanes, so you had to choose which you were going to install.

Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 64GB 3200MHz DDR4 Two two packs for 128G as that was a lot lower cost than one 4 pack.
The CPU addresses them in pairs. 64G would be enough to get started, just, but I don't plan any upgrades, once I retire again :)
I've left the RAM at its JEDEC speed and voltage. XMP is another name for overclocking. Maybe I'll turn on the XMP by way of an upgrade but I'm not keen on the over volting of the CPU and RAM that goes with it. It would be a very expensive mistake if it destroyed the CPU/RAM/Motherboard.

850W Corsair RM Series RM850 Full Modular, 80PLUS Gold That's almost twice the power output I need, but don't skimp the PSU.
It should have a long low stress life. PC PSUs are commodity parts, you get what you pay for. Ignore the ones in the lowest and highest 25% of the price range and pick something in the middle. The PSU derating is important. You tend to add bids over the years, which requires more power. The PSU dynamic regulation, which is very difficult to measure, gets worse as components age. Think the CPU going from almost zero to 150W in well less than a nanosecond and keeping the voltage correct within a few millivolts.

1TB Samsung 980 PRO, M.2 (2280), PCIe 4.0 (x4) NVMe SSD The system is PCIe4 everywhere. 1TB is plenty for the bits that matter. There was no point in fitting a PCIe3 NVMe module. That would be like keeping a Ferrari just to drive to the corner shop. There are two M.2 slots, so expansion is possible. There was not a lot of choice in PCIe 4 NVMes and Samsung are well known.

Toshiba 8TB N300 x4 In mdadm RAID5 with LVM on top. They hold /home, /var/cache/distfiles, /var/cache/binpkgs and my media collection with space left over.
I swithered over 4TB or 8TB drives, then thought about the no future expansion plan. I have all my distfiles back to 2006 with a smattering of older ones too. That's about 290GB now.
Its only going to grow.

Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition Full Tower PC Case Its getting difficult to find cases with three or four 5 1/4" bays and I wanted at least 3.
I have two multi layer Bluray drives moved from my old system. For burning backups and ripping things. I also wanted USB-C on the front. USB-A will disappear soon, as its started to on laptops already.

Akasa InterConnect EX card reader for 5.25" Bay That provides the USB-C port on the front as well as an assortment of card readers, so I can write SD-Cards for the Raspberry That's all three bays on the case full.

Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black CPU Cooler I've never been one for water cooling. It's noisy but not objectionable when the CPU is going flat out. The down side or air cooling is the the fan/heatsink cover the M.2 slot closest two the CPU but that's the one I populated.

Thermal Paste Arctic MX-4 (2022) My thermal paste was over 20 years old, so time for some new stuff. :)

No video card yet. I want a Radeon 5xxx once they are back in the shops at a sensible price.

-- edit 27-Aug-22 --

Radeon 5xxx video cards are optimised for 1920x1080 and I have one 43" 4k screen. That's like 4x 22" 1920x1080 screens.
I got a bargain RX6700XT OC with 12G RAM.

[steve_v]

People aren't still seeking brick mobile phones

Speak for yourself, I'd gladly trade the wafer-thin and needlessly fragile toys that pass as phones these days for some good old (removable) battery capacity, storage expansion options, and an analogue audio jack.

investing the money to replace that performance wouldn't like make much sense. Unless I could get it something small and quiet .

You almost certainly can... But I hear you on the time and effort deciding (and even keeping up with the options) on what to buy.

I never quite figured out their product line, and nothing really seemed suitable for a switch.

Yeah, they're ideal for a router or a mini-server, but I wouldn't build a switch around one. You really want specialised hardware for that, and such doesn't seem to be available to the general public.
I mean you could cobble something together with a bunch of PCIE NICs, assuming you can find a board with enough slots, but it seems like a bit of a waste to me. Better a custom board and some FPGAs... If there was such a thing to be found.
I'll admit I haven't looked very hard though, it's not something I have a burning need for.

[DaggyStyle]

ibrown39,

Can you really get 4 DIMMs on a Micro ATX motherboard?
All that heat in such a small space too.

YES YOU CAN!

see: https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H170M%20Pro4s/

that is my main server, running gentoo, 4x8G, i7-7700 with ssd, hdd and 4 pcie nic packed into this little dude https://alpha4you-electronic.com/en/sys ... 00-u3.html

[NeddySeagoon]

DaggyStyle,

Live and learn :)

or maybe not ...

It Is Fatuous To Attempt To Indoctrinate A Superannuated Canine With Innovative Maneuvers.

[DaggyStyle]

DaggyStyle,

Live and learn

or maybe not ...

It Is Fatuous To Attempt To Indoctrinate A Superannuated Canine With Innovative Maneuvers.

or maybe

[sitquietly]

I have no recommendation but I can explain my process:
* Must be Intel cpu because heat.
* I'd want LGA 1200 socket because more pins (heat).
* I'd choose an Intel LGA1200 cpu with 8 real cores from the list
* with TDP of 95, or even 65, watts because such a design can run at it's rated frequency
* avoid high TDP -- such chips run great in bursts such as for games but must throttle during prolonged load
* fast memory support
* Then I'd choose an LGA1200 board with great i/o support. Looks like this would do.
* Add 128 Gbytes of fast ddr4
* Add four 2TB M.2 ssd (zfs raid10?)

Key point: a build beast should use low-thermal cpus so that it can sustain very high load without frequency throttling

Warning: I may be wrong. Maybe the board should support ECC memory.

[pjp]

People aren't still seeking brick mobile phones

Speak for yourself, I'd gladly trade the wafer-thin and needlessly fragile toys that pass as phones these days for some good old (removable) battery capacity, storage expansion options, and an analogue audio jack. :P

My phone has both, though I don't use the audio jack (ironically, I partially purchased it because I thought I was going to use it for music... never happened). And A year plus ago I put in a new battery. In 2015/16, it was one of the few options that still had external storage (under the cover) and a replaceable battery.

You almost certainly can... But I hear you on the time and effort deciding (and even keeping up with the options) on what to buy.

Sure, but I've never seen a comparson old CPU performance to comparable new CPU performance, so the research would likely be even more painful.

Yeah, they're ideal for a router or a mini-server, but I wouldn't build a switch around one. You really want specialised hardware for that, and such doesn't seem to be available to the general public.

Unfortunately. I'm surprised there isn't a middle-ground option.

I mean you could cobble something together with a bunch of PCIE NICs, assuming you can find a board with enough slots, but it seems like a bit of a waste to me. Better a custom board and some FPGAs... If there was such a thing to be found.
I'll admit I haven't looked very hard though, it's not something I have a burning need for.

I haven't looked hard, but nowhere I've looked has anything. I did look at a 4 port NIC for the hell of it... yeah, no. $400+ (can't recall if that was an SFP model). A "RaspberryPi" for each networking and storage doesn't seem _that_ much of an ask.

[pjp]

* Then I'd choose an LGA1200 board with great i/o support. Looks like this would do.

Yikes. Am I that out of touch with pricing, or is there something that board offers to warrant that price?