Goodbye, Gentoo

Opinions, ideas and thoughts about Gentoo. Anything and everything about Gentoo except support questions.
Processus42
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Goodbye, Gentoo

Post by Processus42 »

Working with you was a pleasure.

I started using Linux distributions as desktop operating systems around 2010. Up until then I only ever used Windows. I debuted with Ubuntu, motivated by the advertised "ease of use". I used it sporadically until 2012 then moved to Debian. One year after this move to Debian I achieved 50/50 use-time of Windows and Linux distributions. Then, in 2014, I made the choice to only use Linux distributions for all desktop-related stuff but gaming. In 2015, a friend of mine talked about Gentoo, and I got interested by the source-based distribution model that I didn't know about until then. I made a risky switch to Gentoo and used it up until now. Risky, because I didn't know anything about what Linux really was. What part it played in "Linux distributions", what was the "bare minimum" a distribution had to offer, etc. I remember bootstrapping Gentoo from the Debian installation I used as my main OS. I never regret my choice. Using Gentoo allowed me to understand what was the deal about Linux distributions quickly and in details. I also slowly but steadily learnt a lot about the kernel, partly thanks to the fact I had to build it by myself (I always avoided genkernel). In a nutshell, Gentoo was my best discovery in the "Linux" world, and a serious distribution for desktop use.

Some things that are great about Gentoo are:
  • Portage
    And how it is able to keep the system clean across a lot of packages installs and uninstalls compared to the apt suite of Debian.
  • The official ebuild repository
    It never failed me. Never. Even Debian failed me quite some times although it is a "stable" distribution. But it may due to the fact that I didn't know what to expect from a Linux distribution, maybe I tried some hacky things at the time I didn't even know were hacky. It might not happen from now on.
    Huge thanks to the official ebuild repository maintainers. Keep up with the good work. news were actually helpful and could allow me to never have to browse the internet to update in some tricky situations, or to find alternatives for packages that were deprecated. I did four successful profiles migrations, one being from desktop/systemd to desktop (I could reboot into Gentoo the first try, without having to use a recovery disk (I'm proud). I can't count how many times I had to use a recovery disk when I used Ubuntu/Debian).
  • OpenRC
    Although I don't like this init "paradigm" anymore since I discovered systemd and s6, OpenRC is the best implementation of all the SysV style init systems I had read the source code. And it actually allowed me to understand how the traditional init system was working.
  • The community
    Thanks you.
    Alhough I rarely had to talk with other users of Gentoo, every discussion I had was a nice one. People are actually helpful, and I never encountered someone full of themselves. Maybe I got lucky :p
I decided to stop using Gentoo to go back to a binary-based distribution. Partly because, thanks to Gentoo, I now understand most of the binary distributions, what they do in my stead, and what are their limitations. Mainly because I want to switch to lower consumption hardware, and waiting for packages to build became boring (Yes, I though of it as fun for some time). As of today I'm still hesitating as of which distribution to go to, but it will probably be Debian stable, Fedora Workstation or openSUSE Leap.

In any case, thanks you Gentoo, I'd love to use you again sometime. Thanks to all of the maintainers and contributors. Keep it up !

Kindly,
Léo

PS: It feels like a rant against Ubuntu/Debian, but it isn't. Most of the bad stuff that happened to me is probably due to my inexperience from the time.
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Perfect Gentleman
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Post by Perfect Gentleman »

So long, farewell,
but I don't remember you well.
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AJM
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Post by AJM »

I think many of us use binary distributions in addition to Gentoo; I have many Debian VMs, CentOS servers, Alpine servers in daily use. The one thing that experience has taught me is that I don't ever want to run anything other than Gentoo on my own desktop - it's just so reliable and easy to keep up to date over the years.

A huge amount depends on the type of software you want to run... if you keep things clean and relatively traditional, stuff just works and keeps on working; get too involved in the churn of the latest fads which come and go (pulseaudio, anything Gnome related, policykit, systemd etc etc) and you will have much more trouble getting a reliable system and keeping it up to date long term.

If you must swap to a binary distro, I'd recommend Alpine and Void is also worth considering...
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Goverp
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Post by Goverp »

AFAIK binary distros most like Gentoo are Calculate Linux and Arch.
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NeddySeagoon
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Post by NeddySeagoon »

Processus42,

An operating system is a tool to to do a job. You have decided that Gentoo is the wrong tool for your job.
That's fine. It doesn't suit every job.

My Raspberry Pi GPS based NTP time server runs Debian. I keep promising myself I build Gentoo for it but why?
Its a network appliance. It does not need all the optimisations that Gentoo would bring. it just sits there and works.

All the best with your new distro of choice.
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
mike155
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Post by mike155 »

Gentoo is like the "Hotel California": you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave... :D
Processus42
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:10 pm

Post by Processus42 »

Perfect Gentleman wrote:So long, farewell,
but I don't remember you well.
I had so few problems while running Gentoo, that I rarely had the need to come to the forums or the IRC channel.
AJM wrote:I think many of us use binary distributions in addition to Gentoo; I have many Debian VMs, CentOS servers, Alpine servers in daily use. The one thing that experience has taught me is that I don't ever want to run anything other than Gentoo on my own desktop - it's just so reliable and easy to keep up to date over the years.
That might be the main reason for a switch back to Gentoo. I'd like to try something else than Debian, just to eliminate the possibility that this distro isn't fit for my usage.
AJM wrote:A huge amount depends on the type of software you want to run... if you keep things clean and relatively traditional, stuff just works and keeps on working; get too involved in the churn of the latest fads which come and go (pulseaudio, anything Gnome related, policykit, systemd etc etc) and you will have much more trouble getting a reliable system and keeping it up to date long term.
This is what I currently use:

Code: Select all

app-accessibility/espeak (pulseaudio -portaudio)
app-admin/eclean-kernel (-test)
app-admin/pass (X git -dmenu -emacs -importers)
app-admin/sudo (nls pam secure-path sendmail ssl -gcrypt -ldap -offensive -sasl -selinux -skey -sssd)
app-admin/sysklogd (-logger -logrotate -systemd)
app-admin/testdisk (jpeg ntfs qt5 zlib -ewf -reiserfs -static)
app-arch/bzip2 (split-usr -static -static-libs)
app-arch/gzip (-pic -static)
app-arch/p7zip (pch wxwidgets -doc -kde -rar -static)
app-arch/tar (acl nls xattr -minimal -selinux)
app-arch/unrar ()
app-arch/xz-utils (extra-filters nls split-usr -static-libs)
app-benchmarks/stress (-static)
app-cdr/cdrtools (acl filecaps nls unicode -caps -selinux)
app-cdr/geteltorito ()
app-crypt/gnupg (bzip2 nls readline smartcard ssl usb -doc -ldap -scd-shared-access -selinux -tofu -tools -user-socket -wks-server)
app-crypt/libsecret (crypt introspection vala -gtk-doc -test)
app-crypt/paperkey ()
app-crypt/rhash (nls ssl -debug -static-libs)
app-editors/gedit (python spell -gtk-doc)
app-editors/vim (X acl gpm ipv6 nls -cscope -debug -lua -minimal -perl -python -racket -ruby -selinux -sound -tcl -terminal -vim-pager)
app-emulation/lxc (caps man pam ssl tools -apparmor -doc -selinux -verify-sig)
app-emulation/runc (kmem seccomp -apparmor -hardened -test)
app-emulation/virtualbox (alsa opengl opus pam pulseaudio qt5 sdk udev -debug -doc -dtrace -headless -java -lvm -pax-kernel -python -vboxwebsrv -vnc)
app-emulation/virtualbox-additions ()
app-emulation/virtualbox-extpack-oracle ()
app-emulation/virtualbox-modules (-dist-kernel -pax-kernel)
app-emulation/wine-vanilla (X alsa cups faudio fontconfig gecko jpeg lcms mono mp3 nls opengl perl png pulseaudio realtime run-exes samba sdl ssl threads truetype udev udisks unwind usb xcomposite xml -capi -custom-cflags -dos -gphoto2 -gsm -gssapi -gstreamer -kerberos -ldap -mingw -netapi -odbc -openal -opencl -osmesa -oss -pcap -prelink -scanner -selinux -test -v4l -vkd3d -vulkan -xinerama)
app-i18n/ibus-anthy (nls)
app-misc/jq (oniguruma -static-libs -test)
app-misc/screen (pam -debug -multiuser -nethack -selinux)
app-office/homebank (ofx)
app-office/libreoffice (bluetooth branding cups dbus gtk mariadb pdfimport -accessibility -base -clang -coinmp -custom-cflags -debug -eds -firebird -googledrive -gstreamer -java -kde -ldap -odk -postgres -test -vulkan)
app-office/scribus (boost minimal pdf templates -debug -examples -graphicsmagick -hunspell -osg -scripts -tk)
app-portage/cpuid2cpuflags ()
app-portage/eix (nls -debug -doc -sqlite)
app-portage/gentoolkit (-test)
app-portage/layman (git -cvs -darcs -g-sorcery -gpg -mercurial -sqlite -squashfs -subversion -sync-plugin-portage -test)
app-portage/mirrorselect (ipv6)
app-portage/portage-utils (nls openmp qmanifest qtegrity -static)
app-shells/bash (net nls readline -afs -bashlogger -examples -mem-scramble -plugins)
app-text/asciidoc (-doc -test)
app-text/dos2unix (nls -debug -test)
app-text/evince (cups introspection spell tiff -djvu -dvi -gnome -gnome-keyring -gstreamer -gtk-doc -nautilus -nsplugin -postscript -t1lib -xps)
app-text/ghostscript-gpl (X cups dbus gtk jpeg2k unicode -static-libs)
app-text/pdftk ()
app-text/texlive (X cjk extra graphics png truetype xetex xml -context -games -humanities -luatex -metapost -music -pdfannotextractor -pstricks -publishers -science -tex4ht -texi2html)
app-text/wgetpaste (ssl)
app-text/zathura (magic seccomp -doc -sqlite -synctex -test)
dev-cpp/htmlcxx (-static-libs)
dev-db/cdb ()
dev-db/mariadb (backup pam perl server xml -bindist -columnstore -cracklib -debug -extraengine -galera -innodb-lz4 -innodb-lzo -innodb-snappy -jdbc -jemalloc -kerberos -latin1 -mroonga -numa -odbc -oqgraph -profiling -rocksdb -s3 -selinux -sphinx -sst-mariabackup -sst-rsync -static -systemd -systemtap -tcmalloc -test -yassl)
dev-lang/dmd (dmd-2_093 tools -dmd-2_076 -dmd-2_077 -dmd-2_078 -dmd-2_079 -dmd-2_080 -dmd-2_081 -dmd-2_082 -dmd-2_083 -dmd-2_084 -dmd-2_085 -dmd-2_086 -dmd-2_087 -dmd-2_088 -dmd-2_089 -dmd-2_090 -dmd-2_091 -dmd-2_092 -doc -examples -gdc-9_3_0 -ldc2-1_18 -ldc2-1_19 -ldc2-1_20 -ldc2-1_21 -ldc2-1_22 -ldc2-1_23 -ldc2-1_24 -selfhost -static-libs)
dev-lang/go ()
dev-lang/mono (nls -doc -minimal -pax_kernel -xen)
dev-lang/python-2.7.18_p11 (bluetooth gdbm ipv6 ncurses readline sqlite ssl threads tk wide-unicode xml -berkdb -build -examples -hardened -verify-sig -wininst)
dev-lang/python-3.8.11 (bluetooth gdbm ipv6 ncurses readline sqlite ssl tk xml -build -examples -hardened -test -verify-sig -wininst)
dev-lang/python-3.9.6_p1 (bluetooth gdbm ipv6 ncurses readline sqlite ssl tk xml -build -examples -hardened -test -verify-sig -wininst)
dev-lang/rust (-clippy -debug -doc -miri -nightly -parallel-compiler -rls -rustfmt -system-bootstrap -system-llvm -test -verify-sig -wasm)
dev-libs/boost (bzip2 icu nls python threads zlib -context -debug -doc -lzma -mpi -numpy -static-libs -tools -zstd)
dev-libs/jsoncpp (-doc -test)
dev-libs/libsodium (asm urandom -minimal -static-libs -verify-sig)
dev-libs/tinyxml2 (-test)
dev-lua/luarocks (-test)
dev-python/PyQt5 (bluetooth dbus gui multimedia network opengl ssl svg webchannel widgets -debug -declarative -designer -examples -gles2-only -help -location -positioning -printsupport -sensors -serialport -speech -sql -testlib -websockets -x11extras -xmlpatterns)
dev-python/docutils ()
dev-python/pip (-test -vanilla)
dev-python/pyyaml (libyaml -examples -test)
dev-python/sphinx (-doc -latex -test)
dev-python/virtualenv (-test)
dev-python/wheel (-test)
dev-qt/qtcore (icu -debug -old-kernel -systemd -test)
dev-qt/qtgui (X dbus egl gif jpeg libinput png udev -accessibility -debug -eglfs -evdev -gles2-only -ibus -test -tslib -tuio -vnc -vulkan -wayland)
dev-qt/qtmultimedia (alsa pulseaudio widgets -debug -gles2-only -gstreamer -openal -qml -test)
dev-qt/qtnetwork (networkmanager ssl -bindist -connman -debug -gssapi -libproxy -sctp -test)
dev-qt/qtopengl (-debug -gles2-only -test)
dev-qt/qtprintsupport (cups -debug -gles2-only -test)
dev-qt/qtsql (sqlite -debug -freetds -mysql -oci8 -odbc -postgres -test)
dev-qt/qtwebkit (X gstreamer hyphen jit opengl printsupport -geolocation -gles2-only -multimedia -nsplugin -orientation -qml -webp)
dev-qt/qtwebsockets (ssl -debug -qml -test)
dev-qt/qtwidgets (X gtk png -debug -gles2-only -test)
dev-qt/qtxml (-debug -test)
dev-texlive/texlive-fontsextra (-doc -source)
dev-texlive/texlive-langfrench (-doc -source)
dev-util/android-tools (-python)
dev-util/ccache (-static-c++ -test)
dev-util/ctags (xml -json -yaml)
dev-util/dcd (dmd-2_093 -dmd-2_082 -dmd-2_083 -dmd-2_084 -dmd-2_085 -dmd-2_086 -dmd-2_087 -dmd-2_088 -dmd-2_089 -dmd-2_090 -dmd-2_091 -dmd-2_092 -ldc2-1_18 -ldc2-1_19 -ldc2-1_20 -ldc2-1_21 -ldc2-1_22 -ldc2-1_23 -ldc2-1_24 -systemd)
dev-util/debootstrap ()
dev-util/dub (dmd-2_093 -debug -dmd-2_076 -dmd-2_077 -dmd-2_078 -dmd-2_079 -dmd-2_080 -dmd-2_081 -dmd-2_082 -dmd-2_083 -dmd-2_084 -dmd-2_085 -dmd-2_086 -dmd-2_087 -dmd-2_088 -dmd-2_089 -dmd-2_090 -dmd-2_091 -dmd-2_092 -gdc-9_3_0 -ldc2-1_18 -ldc2-1_19 -ldc2-1_20 -ldc2-1_21 -ldc2-1_22 -ldc2-1_23 -ldc2-1_24)
dev-util/gyp ()
dev-util/strace (-aio -elfutils -perl -static -unwind)
dev-util/vulkan-tools (X -cube -wayland)
dev-vcs/cvs (crypt nls pam -doc -kerberos -server)
dev-vcs/git (blksha1 curl gpg iconv nls pcre perl threads webdav -cgi -cvs -doc -emacs -gnome-keyring -highlight -mediawiki -mediawiki-experimental -perforce -ppcsha1 -subversion -test -tk -xinetd)
dev-vcs/git-lfs (-doc -test)
dev-vcs/mercurial (chg -debug -emacs -gpg -rust -test -tk)
dev-vcs/subversion (nls -apache2 -berkdb -debug -doc -extras -gnome-keyring -java -kwallet -perl -ruby -sasl -test)
gnome-base/gconf (introspection policykit -debug -ldap)
gnome-extra/gnome-calculator (introspection -test)
gnome-extra/nm-applet (-appindicator -modemmanager -selinux -teamd)
kde-apps/kmplot (handbook -debug)
mail-client/mutt (gdbm hcache imap lmdb nls sasl smtp ssl -autocrypt -berkdb -debug -doc -gnutls -gpgme -idn -kerberos -mbox -pgp-classic -pop -prefix -qdbm -selinux -slang -smime-classic -tokyocabinet -vanilla)
mail-client/thunderbird (clang dbus openh264 pulseaudio system-av1 system-harfbuzz system-icu system-jpeg system-libevent system-libvpx system-webp -debug -eme-free -hardened -hwaccel -jack -lto -pgo -selinux -wayland -wifi)
media-fonts/dejavu (X -fontforge)
media-fonts/inconsolata (X)
media-fonts/kochi-substitute (X)
media-fonts/liberation-fonts (X -fontforge)
media-fonts/libertine (X)
media-fonts/lohit-fonts ()
media-fonts/noto-cjk (X)
media-fonts/noto-emoji (X -buildfont)
media-fonts/roboto (X)
media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera (X)
media-fonts/vlgothic (X)
media-gfx/digikam (X imagemagick lensfun opengl openmp -addressbook -calendar -debug -gphoto2 -heif -marble -mediaplayer -mysql -panorama -scanner -semantic-desktop)
media-gfx/feh (exif -curl -debug -test -xinerama)
media-gfx/gimp (alsa mng udev -aalib -aqua -debug -doc -gnome -heif -jpeg2k -openexr -postscript -test -unwind -vector-icons -webp -wmf -xpm)
media-gfx/gphoto2 (exif ncurses nls readline -aalib)
media-gfx/graphviz (X cairo gtk gts nls pdf qt5 svg -devil -doc -examples -guile -java -lasi -perl -postscript -python -ruby -tcl -webp)
media-gfx/imagemagick (X bzip2 cxx fontconfig jpeg lcms openmp pango png svg tiff truetype xml zlib -corefonts -djvu -fftw -fpx -graphviz -hdri -heif -jbig -jpeg2k -lqr -lzma -opencl -openexr -perl -postscript -q8 -q32 -raw -static-libs -test -webp -wmf -zip)
media-gfx/inkscape (cdr dbus exif jpeg lcms openmp spell -dia -graphicsmagick -imagemagick -inkjar -jemalloc -postscript -static-libs -svg2 -visio -wpg)
media-gfx/pngcrush ()
media-gfx/scrot ()
media-gfx/zbar (X dbus gtk imagemagick jpeg nls qt5 threads xv -graphicsmagick -introspection -java -python -static-libs -test -v4l)
media-libs/exiftool (doc)
media-libs/libsdl2 (X alsa dbus haptic joystick opengl pulseaudio sound threads udev video -aqua -custom-cflags -fcitx4 -gles2 -ibus -jack -kms -libsamplerate -nas -oss -static-libs -vulkan -wayland -xinerama -xscreensaver)
media-libs/mesa (X classic dri3 egl gallium gbm gles2 llvm opencl vaapi vulkan zstd -d3d9 -debug -gles1 -lm-sensors -osmesa -selinux -test -unwind -valgrind -vdpau -vulkan-overlay -wayland -xa -xvmc -zink)
media-libs/mlt (ffmpeg frei0r gtk jack opengl qt5 sdl xml -compressed-lumas -debug -fftw -libsamplerate -lua -opencv -python -rtaudio -rubberband -vdpau -vidstab -xine)
media-libs/mutagen (-doc -test)
media-libs/vulkan-loader (X -layers -wayland)
media-plugins/frei0r-plugins (facedetect scale0tilt -doc)
media-sound/alsa-utils (libsamplerate ncurses nls -bat -doc -selinux)
media-sound/audacity (alsa ffmpeg flac ladspa lv2 mad ogg portmixer vorbis vst -doc -id3tag -jack -oss -portmidi -portsmf -sbsms -twolame -vamp)
media-sound/clementine (cdda dbus mtp pulseaudio udisks -box -debug -dropbox -googledrive -ipod -lastfm -mms -moodbar -projectm -seafile -skydrive -test -wiimote)
media-sound/gnome-sound-recorder ()
media-sound/id3v2 ()
media-sound/pavucontrol (nls)
media-sound/playerctl (-doc -introspection)
media-sound/volumeicon (libnotify)
media-tv/v4l-utils (bpf opengl qt5 udev -dvb)
media-video/ffmpeg (X alsa bzip2 dav1d encode fontconfig gcrypt gnutls gpl iconv libass librtmp libv4l libxml2 lzma mp3 network openal opengl openh264 openssl opus postproc pulseaudio samba sdl speex svg theora threads truetype v4l vaapi vdpau vorbis vpx webp x264 x265 xvid zlib -amr -amrenc -appkit -bluray -bs2b -cdio -chromaprint -chromium -codec2 -cpudetection -cuda -debug -doc -fdk -flite -frei0r -fribidi -gme -gmp -gsm -hardcoded-tables -iec61883 -ieee1394 -jack -jpeg2k -kvazaar -ladspa -libaom -libaribb24 -libcaca -libdrm -libilbc -libsoxr -libtesseract -lv2 -mipsdspr1 -mipsdspr2 -mipsfpu -mmal -modplug -opencl -oss -pic -rav1e -rubberband -snappy -sndio -srt -ssh -static-libs -test -twolame -vidstab -vulkan -zeromq -zimg -zvbi)
media-video/vlc (X a52 alsa bidi dbus dts dvbpsi dvd encode ffmpeg flac fontconfig gcrypt jpeg libass libnotify libsamplerate live mad matroska mp3 mpeg ncurses ogg opus png pulseaudio qt5 samba ssl svg theora truetype udev v4l vaapi x264 xml zeroconf -aom -archive -aribsub -bluray -cddb -chromaprint -chromecast -dav1d -dc1394 -debug -directx -faad -fdk -fluidsynth -gme -gnome-keyring -gstreamer -ieee1394 -jack -kate -libcaca -libtar -libtiger -linsys -lirc -lua -macosx-notifications -modplug -mtp -musepack -nfs -omxil -optimisememory -projectm -rdp -run-as-root -sdl-image -sftp -shout -sid -skins -soxr -speex -srt -taglib -test -tremor -twolame -upnp -vdpau -vnc -vpx -wayland -x265 -zvbi)
media-video/x264-encoder (interlaced mp4 threads -avs -custom-cflags -ffmpeg -ffmpegsource)
net-analyzer/fping (filecaps ipv6 -suid)
net-analyzer/nmap (ipv6 ncat nse ssl -libssh2 -nping -system-lua -verify-sig)
net-analyzer/tcpdump (drop-root samba smi ssl -suid -test -verify-sig)
net-analyzer/traceroute (-static)
net-analyzer/wireshark (capinfos captype dftest dumpcap editcap filecaps mergecap minizip netlink pcap plugins qt5 randpkt randpktdump reordercap sharkd ssl text2pcap tshark udpdump zlib zstd -androiddump -bcg729 -brotli -ciscodump -doc -dpauxmon -http2 -ilbc -kerberos -libxml2 -lto -lua -lz4 -maxminddb -opus -plugin-ifdemo -sbc -sdjournal -selinux -smi -snappy -spandsp -sshdump -test -tfshark)
net-dns/avahi (dbus gdbm gtk introspection ipv6 mdnsresponder-compat nls qt5 -autoipd -bookmarks -doc -howl-compat -mono -python -selinux -systemd -test)
net-dns/bind-tools (caps ipv6 readline xml -doc -gssapi -idn -libedit)
net-dns/dnsmasq (dbus dhcp dumpfile inotify ipv6 nls -auth-dns -conntrack -dhcp-tools -dnssec -id -idn -libidn2 -lua -nettlehash -script -selinux -static -tftp)
net-firewall/nftables (gmp modern-kernel readline -debug -doc -json -libedit -python -static-libs -xtables)
net-fs/nfs-utils (ipv6 libmount nfsidmap nfsv4 nfsv41 tcpd uuid -caps -junction -kerberos -ldap -nfsdcld -selinux)
net-ftp/filezilla (dbus nls -test)
net-ftp/ftp (ipv6 readline ssl)
net-ftp/lftp (gnutls ipv6 nls ssl -convert-mozilla-cookies -idn -socks5 -verify-file)
net-ftp/ncftp (-pch)
net-irc/irssi (perl proxy -otr -selinux -socks5)
net-libs/liboauth (nss -bindist -curl -doc)
net-libs/nodejs (icu inspector npm snapshot ssl system-ssl -debug -doc -lto -pax-kernel -system-icu -systemtap -test)
net-misc/curl (ftp http2 imap ipv6 openssl pop3 progress-meter samba smtp ssl tftp -adns -alt-svc -brotli -gnutls -gopher -hsts -idn -kerberos -ldap -mbedtls -nghttp3 -nss -quiche -rtmp -ssh -sslv3 -static-libs -telnet -test -threads -winssl -zstd)
net-misc/iputils (arping filecaps ipv6 nls ssl -caps -clockdiff -doc -gcrypt -idn -nettle -rarpd -rdisc -static -tftpd -tracepath -traceroute6)
net-misc/ntp (ipv6 readline samba ssl threads -caps -debug -openntpd -parse-clocks -selinux -snmp -vim-syntax -zeroconf)
net-misc/proxychains ()
net-misc/rdesktop (alsa ipv6 pulseaudio -ao -kerberos -oss -pcsc-lite -xrandr)
net-misc/rsync (acl iconv ipv6 ssl xattr -examples -lz4 -stunnel -system-zlib -xxhash -zstd)
net-misc/tigervnc (drm nls opengl pam xorgmodule -dri3 -gnutls -java -server -xinerama)
net-misc/wget (ipv6 nls pcre ssl zlib -cookie_check -debug -gnutls -idn -metalink -ntlm -static -test -uuid)
net-misc/whois (iconv nls -idn -xcrypt)
net-misc/zsync ()
net-p2p/transmission (gtk nls qt5 -appindicator -lightweight -mbedtls -systemd -test)
net-vpn/openvpn (lz4 lzo openssl pam plugins -down-root -examples -inotify -iproute2 -mbedtls -pkcs11 -selinux -systemd -test)
net-vpn/tor (man seccomp server -caps -doc -lzma -scrypt -selinux -systemd -test -tor-hardening -verify-sig -zstd)
net-vpn/wireguard-tools (wg-quick)
sci-electronics/qelectrotech (-doc)
sci-visualization/gnuplot (X cairo gd qt5 readline wxwidgets -aqua -bitmap -doc -examples -ggi -latex -libcaca -libcerf -lua -regis)
sys-apps/acl (nls split-usr -static-libs)
sys-apps/baselayout (split-usr -build)
sys-apps/busybox (ipv6 static -debug -livecd -make-symlinks -math -mdev -pam -savedconfig -selinux -sep-usr -syslog -systemd)
sys-apps/coreutils (acl nls split-usr xattr -caps -gmp -hostname -kill -multicall -selinux -static -test -vanilla)
sys-apps/diffutils (nls -static)
sys-apps/dmidecode (-selinux)
sys-apps/fakechroot ()
sys-apps/fakeroot (acl -debug -test)
sys-apps/file (bzip2 seccomp zlib -lzma -python -static-libs)
sys-apps/findutils (nls -selinux -static -test)
sys-apps/firejail-lts (globalcfg network seccomp suid userns whitelist -apparmor -test)
sys-apps/gawk (nls readline -mpfr)
sys-apps/gptfdisk (ncurses -static)
sys-apps/grep (nls pcre -static)
sys-apps/hdparm (-static)
sys-apps/iproute2 (ipv6 -atm -berkdb -bpf -caps -elf -iptables -libbsd -minimal -selinux)
sys-apps/kbd (nls pam -test)
sys-apps/kmod (lzma tools zlib -debug -doc -pkcs7 -python -static-libs -zstd)
sys-apps/less (pcre unicode)
sys-apps/lm-sensors (-contrib -sensord -static-libs)
sys-apps/lshw (gtk -sqlite -static)
sys-apps/man-pages ()
sys-apps/mlocate (nls -selinux)
sys-apps/net-tools (arp hostname ipv6 nls -nis -plipconfig -selinux -slattach -static)
sys-apps/openrc (ncurses netifrc pam split-usr unicode -audit -bash -debug -newnet -prefix -selinux -static-libs -sysv-utils)
sys-apps/pv (nls -debug)
sys-apps/sdparm ()
sys-apps/sed (acl nls -selinux -static)
sys-apps/sg3_utils (-static-libs)
sys-apps/shadow (acl nls pam split-usr su xattr -audit -bcrypt -cracklib -selinux -skey)
sys-apps/smartmontools (update-drivedb -caps -daemon -selinux -static -systemd)
sys-apps/usbutils (-python)
sys-apps/util-linux (cramfs logger ncurses nls pam readline split-usr suid udev unicode -audit -build -caps -cryptsetup -fdformat -hardlink -kill -magic -python -selinux -slang -static-libs -su -systemd -test -tty-helpers)
sys-apps/which ()
sys-auth/nss-mdns (-test)
sys-auth/oath-toolkit (pam -pskc -test)
sys-auth/pam_mount (crypt ssl -selinux)
sys-boot/grub (fonts nls sdl themes truetype -device-mapper -doc -efiemu -libzfs -mount -test)
sys-boot/refind (iso9660 ntfs -btrfs -custom-cflags -doc -ext2 -ext4 -hfs -reiserfs)
sys-boot/syslinux (-custom-cflags)
sys-boot/unetbootin ()
sys-boot/woeusb (-minimal)
sys-devel/binutils (gold nls plugins -cet -default-gold -doc -multitarget -static-libs -test -vanilla)
sys-devel/gcc (cxx fortran go multilib nls nptl openmp pch pie sanitize ssp -ada -d -debug -doc -fixed-point -graphite -hardened -jit -libssp -lto -objc -objc++ -objc-gc -pgo -systemtap -test -vanilla -vtv -zstd)
sys-devel/gdb (nls python server xml -cet -lzma -multitarget -source-highlight -test -vanilla -xxhash)
sys-devel/gnuconfig ()
sys-devel/make (nls -guile -static)
sys-devel/patch (xattr -static -test)
sys-fs/ddrescue (-static)
sys-fs/dosfstools (iconv -compat -test)
sys-fs/e2fsprogs (nls split-usr threads -cron -fuse -lto -static-libs)
sys-fs/eudev (hwdb introspection kmod -rule-generator -selinux -static-libs -test)
sys-fs/exfat-utils ()
sys-fs/fuse-2.9.9-r1 (-examples -static-libs)
sys-fs/fuse-3.10.4 (suid -test)
sys-fs/fuse-exfat (-suid)
sys-fs/udisks (acl daemon elogind introspection nls -debug -lvm -selinux -systemd -vdo -zram)
sys-fs/zfs (nls pam rootfs split-usr -custom-cflags -debug -dist-kernel -kernel-builtin -minimal -python -static-libs -test-suite -verify-sig)
sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-5.4.92 (-build -experimental -symlink)
sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-5.10.52 (-build -experimental -symlink)
sys-kernel/linux-firmware (redistributable -initramfs -savedconfig -unknown-license)
sys-libs/libcxx (libcxxabi libunwind -static-libs -test)
sys-libs/zlib (minizip split-usr static-libs)
sys-power/nut (split-usr ssl tcpd ups_drivers_usbhid-ups usb xml -cgi -ipmi -selinux -snmp -ups_drivers_al175 -ups_drivers_apcsmart -ups_drivers_apcsmart-old -ups_drivers_apcupsd-ups -ups_drivers_bcmxcp -ups_drivers_bcmxcp_usb -ups_drivers_belkin -ups_drivers_belkinunv -ups_drivers_bestfcom -ups_drivers_bestfortress -ups_drivers_bestuferrups -ups_drivers_bestups -ups_drivers_blazer_ser -ups_drivers_blazer_usb -ups_drivers_clone -ups_drivers_clone-outlet -ups_drivers_dummy-ups -ups_drivers_etapro -ups_drivers_everups -ups_drivers_gamatronic -ups_drivers_genericups -ups_drivers_isbmex -ups_drivers_ivtscd -ups_drivers_liebert -ups_drivers_liebert-esp2 -ups_drivers_masterguard -ups_drivers_metasys -ups_drivers_mge-shut -ups_drivers_mge-utalk -ups_drivers_microdowell -ups_drivers_netxml-ups -ups_drivers_nut-ipmipsu -ups_drivers_nutdrv_qx -ups_drivers_oldmge-shut -ups_drivers_oneac -ups_drivers_optiups -ups_drivers_powercom -ups_drivers_powerpanel -ups_drivers_rhino -ups_drivers_richcomm_usb -ups_drivers_riello_ser -ups_drivers_riello_usb -ups_drivers_safenet -ups_drivers_snmp-ups -ups_drivers_solis -ups_drivers_tripplite -ups_drivers_tripplite_usb -ups_drivers_tripplitesu -ups_drivers_upscode2 -ups_drivers_victronups -zeroconf)
sys-power/suspend (crypt lzo -threads)
sys-process/lsof (ipv6 -examples -rpc -selinux)
sys-process/procps (elogind kill ncurses nls split-usr unicode -modern-top -selinux -static-libs -systemd -test)
sys-process/psmisc (X ipv6 nls -selinux)
virtual/cron ()
virtual/dev-manager ()
virtual/editor ()
virtual/jdk (-headless-awt)
virtual/jre ()
virtual/libc ()
virtual/man ()
virtual/os-headers ()
virtual/package-manager ()
virtual/pager ()
virtual/service-manager ()
virtual/ssh (-minimal)
www-client/chromium (cups js-type-check pic proprietary-codecs pulseaudio system-ffmpeg tcmalloc -component-build -custom-cflags -hangouts -headless -kerberos -official -ozone -ozone-wayland -selinux -suid -system-icu -system-libvpx -widevine)
www-client/dillo (gif ipv6 jpeg png ssl -doc)
www-client/firefox (clang dbus gmp-autoupdate openh264 pulseaudio system-av1 system-harfbuzz system-icu system-jpeg system-libevent system-webp -debug -eme-free -geckodriver -hardened -hwaccel -jack -lto -pgo -screencast -selinux -system-libvpx -wayland -wifi)
www-client/surf (-savedconfig)
www-servers/apache (gdbm split-usr ssl suexec-caps -debug -doc -ldap -selinux -static -suexec -suexec-syslog -threads)
www-servers/nginx (debug http http-cache http2 ipv6 pcre ssl -aio -libatomic -pcre-jit -rtmp -selinux -threads -vim-syntax)
www-servers/uwsgi (caps cgi embedded lua pcre php python routing ruby ssl xml -apache2 -debug -expat -go -jemalloc -json -mono -perl -python-asyncio -python-gevent -selinux -yajl -yaml -zeromq)
x11-base/xorg-x11 (fonts)
x11-libs/gtkglext (-abi_riscv_lp64 -abi_riscv_lp64d)
x11-libs/gtksourceview-3.24.11 (introspection vala -glade -test)
x11-libs/gtksourceview-4.8.1 (introspection vala -glade -gtk-doc -test)
x11-libs/libXScrnSaver (-doc)
x11-misc/dmenu (-savedconfig -xinerama)
x11-misc/i3status (filecaps pulseaudio)
x11-misc/lightdm (gnome gtk introspection qt5 -audit -non_root -vala)
x11-misc/read-edid (-vbe-mode)
x11-misc/redshift (gtk nls -appindicator -geoclue)
x11-misc/vdpauinfo ()
x11-misc/xscreensaver (gdk-pixbuf gtk jpeg locking opengl pam perl -caps -gdm -new-login -offensive -selinux -suid -systemd -xinerama)
x11-plugins/enigmail ()
x11-terms/rxvt-unicode (font-styles mousewheel perl startup-notification utmp wtmp xft -24-bit-color -256-color -blink -fading-colors -gdk-pixbuf -iso14755 -sgrmouse -unicode3)
x11-wm/i3 (-debug -doc -test)
xfce-base/thunar (exif libnotify pcre trash-panel-plugin udisks -introspection)
xfce-base/xfwm4 (opengl startup-notification xcomposite xpresent)
xfce-extra/tumbler (curl ffmpeg jpeg pdf -epub -gstreamer -odf -raw)
This is a mess, yet I can wrap my head around this. And I switched to and from systemd without issue. Clearly, portage is doing a wonderful job at keeping my system maintainable. In nearly 6 years of using the same Gentoo installation, I never ended up with a corrupted system, whatever I threw to portage.
AJM wrote:AIf you must swap to a binary distro, I'd recommend Alpine and Void is also worth considering...
I'm using Alpine for my containers. I don't like it as a desktop distribution, although I find apk very good and its ABUILDs as great as Gentoo's EBUILDs.
I'll add Void to my list of candidates.
Goverp wrote:AFAIK binary distros most like Gentoo are Calculate Linux and Arch.
I considered to switch to Arch until I had to use it for a project. Now I think the packages repository is quite a mess and I don't like pacman.
I don't think I'll add Calculate to my list of candidates. It looks too niche for me, and it's unclear whether it's binary-based or source-based. It's advertised as Gentoo-based without additional detail. I'd guess it is essentially source-based then ? Can you tell be what part of it is binary-based ?
mike155 wrote:Gentoo is like the "Hotel California": you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave... :D
I hope my next distro will be great enough to not make me want to go back to Gentoo :p
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Post by duane »

Processus42 wrote:
mike155 wrote:Gentoo is like the "Hotel California": you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave... :D
I hope my next distro will be great enough to not make me want to go back to Gentoo :p
Good luck with that. I threw archlinux on one of my systems, a few days ago. It was quick and easy, but one of my more important processes was about 10% slower. Of course, I could always compile my own kernel and several arch packages to get that speed back, but constantly compiling isn't nearly as natural on arch as gentoo. It would mean more work for me, so I checked back in. :wink:

Having said that, I still make my live drive with archiso, so I'm still very dependent on it, but live drives don't need to be optimized.
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Post by Tony0945 »

Sync'd today after 38 days and am happly to say that I had 50+ pacakges to update but no blockers.

This is the way it used to be.
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Re: Goodbye, Gentoo

Post by figueroa »

Processus42 wrote:Working with you was a pleasure.

... and waiting for packages to build became boring (Yes, I though of it as fun for some time).
...
Bye. You weren't supposed to be watching packages build. That's doing it wrong.

Take a look at MX-Linux. Based on Debian stable base, but with up-to-date application software and cool tools.
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Post by penetrode »

mike155 wrote:Gentoo is like the "Hotel California": you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave... :D
Wow, I second this 1000 times.

"I wish I knew how to quit you, Gentoo!"

Honestly, Gentoo is great. Incredibly easy to use given its level of flexibility. I've tried twice to leave the ho-tel in the last 18 years, came back both times, despite (the occasional) problems. That's saying something.

Everything involves trade-offs. The build time trade-off has always been worth it for me.

The last few years, things have been excellent. Gentoo governance has really matured. On that note, here's my general call to consider kicking in some money to keep it going!
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Post by Vulgar »

Goverp wrote:AFAIK binary distros most like Gentoo are Calculate Linux and Arch.
Not exactly correct. Alpine Linux is the closest as it was build from Gentoo. Still uses OpenRC no systemd. The only binary Linux I use if I do not simply build my own with Gentoo. There are enough desktop packages available depending upon needs it is a perfect desktop for a minimalist binary release. Not bloated fast. Plus it is a simple matter of setting up like you can with Gentoo have your own mirror so that only one external update need be done if you have a number of installs in your network.

I use Alpine for light stuff, since there is minimal up keep. Use Gentoo for heavy lifting. Works real good because most is exactly the same as Gentoo no flip flopping from OpenRC to Systemd. In fact, much of it is like the early Gentoo, before all the bloat.
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Post by Tony0945 »

Vulgar wrote: In fact, much of it is like the early Gentoo, before all the bloat.
Sounds good. I'm starting to doubt the value of march=native. Are they on the python two month treadmill?
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Post by Naib »

Vulgar wrote:
Goverp wrote:AFAIK binary distros most like Gentoo are Calculate Linux and Arch.
Not exactly correct. Alpine Linux is the closest as it was build from Gentoo. Still uses OpenRC no systemd. The only binary Linux I use if I do not simply build my own with Gentoo. There are enough desktop packages available depending upon needs it is a perfect desktop for a minimalist binary release. Not bloated fast. Plus it is a simple matter of setting up like you can with Gentoo have your own mirror so that only one external update need be done if you have a number of installs in your network.

I use Alpine for light stuff, since there is minimal up keep. Use Gentoo for heavy lifting. Works real good because most is exactly the same as Gentoo no flip flopping from OpenRC to Systemd. In fact, much of it is like the early Gentoo, before all the bloat.
Alpine was not built from Gentoo, it is its own distribution that was spawned when there was a difference in what a lightweight secure distribution should contain as a subproject of debian. They use OpenRC as it is light and also works with musl. However, there is plans to move away from OpenRC due to issues in how it is developed and maintained.

its a fantastic distribution and I have a large number of containers running it. I plan to convert my headless to it as well, I am just waiting to see what their replacement init and service manager does
#define HelloWorld int
#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
Print 0;
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Post by Tony0945 »

Naib wrote: i I am just waiting to see what their replacement init and service manager does
Watch! It will be Systemd. Original 0.42 still works fine even on late model UEFI boards. No "maintenance", a euphemism for tinkering, is required.
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Post by Naib »

Tony0945 wrote:
Naib wrote: i I am just waiting to see what their replacement init and service manager does
Watch! It will be Systemd. Original 0.42 still works fine even on late model UEFI boards. No "maintenance", a euphemism for tinkering, is required.
It won't and can't.
Won't because they really do not like systemd
Can't because alpine is deployed in a silly number of places (containers ftw) and systemd bloats the hell out of the base size but also causes major issues in that it is all or nothing and how it also operates. Plus they use musl. Sure they could change to glibc and go systemd but well.... It's systemd.
#define HelloWorld int
#define Int main()
#define Return printf
#define Print return
#include <stdio>
HelloWorld Int {
Return("Hello, world!\n");
Print 0;
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Post by Irre »

In germany they don't say "good bye". They say "auf wiedersehen"!
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Post by Tony0945 »

Irre wrote:In germany they don't say "good bye". They say "auf wiedersehen"!
Ja. Literally "on seeing again"
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Post by shadywack »

Left and came back many times. We'll see you again in time.

These days its the best its ever been.
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Post by russellD »

Dear Processus42

Binary packages are possible in Gentoo via two methods:
1) roll your own via Binary Package Server https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_pac ... ckage_host
2) get them pre-rolled via Gentoo Like Distros: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distributi ... _on_Gentoo

This laptop is well served by Calculate https://www.calculate-linux.org/
Moved over a few years ago.
Runs well on the generic X64 binaries from Calculate.
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Post by whtwtr »

AJM wrote:The one thing that experience has taught me is that I don't ever want to run anything other than Gentoo on my own desktop - it's just so reliable and easy to keep up to date over the years..
+1 AJM
I've been running Gentoo on my personal laptop (Lenovo T420s) for a little over 10 years now. Granted I've had a hiccup or two along the way, but nothing a quick search in the Gentoo forums couldn't solve. :-)
My only Gentoo accomplishment other than installing it on my T420s is:
The 2011 Gentoo screen-shot contest. :-)
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Post by klas »

I have gentoo installed on my main PC . I am looking to install it on my three remaining laptops. All gentoo.
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Post by lefsha »

mike155 wrote:Gentoo is like the "Hotel California": you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave... :D
Absolutely.

I did it once. Moved to Arch before they switched to systemd.

The only real alternative is FreeBSD, as long Linux is not required.
Everything else can be considered as downgrade. Well, besides Funtoo of course.
But those are siblings.

Any Debian based Distro has a dependency hell. It's way too easy to break Synaptic
just by uninstalling or installing something. I can break Debian within the hour.
Trying to recover it within Debian paradigm is if possible will take more time, than new installation.

My Gentoo is so special, that no other Distro can be tuned that way.

At the same time copying it to any other hardware is fairly simple.

Only 1 thing stop me from using Gentoo in binary form on all machines - The difference in hardware.

If no developers break anything sometimes, maintaining the Gentoo is simpler, than Debian for example.


Compiling time is not an issue anymore, besides some crazy packages like Chromium, QTWebEngine
and the like, but I guess that is the responsibility of their authors. They are simply stupid.
Those monsters must be split into pieces. But I doubt these packages are required at all.

Anything else need minimum time. If done overnight no time for work will be lost.


Despite Linux is quite popular as server, there are NO Distros or their variants made specially for that
purpose. All binary packages are the same. All of them include support for X and many other absolutely
not required components for a server, which has only ethernet port to communicate to the world.

Linux and Funtoo are only those who do support headless operation with bare minimum of installed
software.

For me even Gentoo is not enough. Some software I build manually. For example Courier-mta.
Standard ebuild doesn't work in a desired way. But it's fairly simple to build packages
for Gentoo. I don't have to stumble upon *-dev packages like at Debian. Having them is a nonsense.
First they create a bloatware and then save disk space on header files. Is not quite sane.

If you insist, that user should have all possible dependencies, then put header to their place quietly.


P.S. I will leave Gentoo on the very first day, as soon as something better will be created by human mind.

P.P.S. Gentoo is terrible... Brrrrr... :lol:
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Post by figueroa »

I haven't experienced any "dependency hell" in Debian stable based distributions in a LONG time. It's always possible to shoot yourself in the foot by trying to purge some core component while not reading the screen, so it just pays to pay attention to messages as you go. I'm been actively deploying MX-Linux (based on Debian stable) to the desktop computers at a small school and I'm not having any system admin issues with package management. In fact, it's easy to maintain.

But, I'm not leaving Gentoo -- ever.
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Post by lefsha »

figueroa wrote:I haven't experienced any "dependency hell" in Debian stable based distributions in a LONG time. It's always possible to shoot yourself in the foot by trying to purge some core component while not reading the screen
Frankly, I won't change my opinion just because of that comment. I can show in 2 min how to make broken dependency state
without deleing ANY core components. One can try repair it, but that should not happen at all.

Another stupid thing of Debian is that if you remove some package which itself depends on other packages it will also
remove all its dependencies. You have to uninstall A, which will also uninstall B and then manually install B.

Also with the same set of installed packages one can have a broken dependency state and normal one.
It's depends how did you get there.

Well, that is my impression of Debian and alike.


Frankly, no one can explain me existence of *-dev packages in Debian.

Debian might be OK, if you never had anything more sane or if you never try to optimize the system by uninstalling the crap which goes automatically into a system.

People understand dependency in a very very strange way.
Not sure if that is really the case on Debian - didn't check it for a long time, but the idea is like that:
They consider Apache as the dependency for Nextcloud for example. Many dependencies are like that.


Of course, you can also use the system with 2-3x times of installed crap. I prefer to control what I do have on my server running or just installed.

And now they have systemd hell. It tells me, that developers are totally insane.

How many desktop users have Debian installed? - 2.5?
Systemd has been written with desktop user in mind. For a server it is a trouble maker.
Debian in most cases used as a server, not as a desktop...

Before making stupid decisions and make voting systemd or not they must study who their customers are!
I doubt there will be more than 5% desktop users. Those would rather use Ubuntu.


P.S. That is common among people to select the easiest path and get troubles on the way.
Lefsha
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