32 bit x86 Gentoo - still use it?

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eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:39 am

People want to run Gentoo because it's one of the few distros that doesn't require systemd.

Did you know: Gentoo is also one of the last few distros that support 32-bit x86 too... It would be a shame if we end up having to run NetBSD (which I think also makes too many generalizations that was made to be compatible with as many architectures and also slows down the machine.)

Do you still run a 32-bit x86 box?

I still have 32-bit Linux laptops and even on a SC520 and GX1. I also have a 32-bit x86 server with 2TB disks that is solely used for backing up my main disk array.

Ant P. · Post by **Ant P.** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:05 am

I have... 2 i686 machines still functioning.
One has Gentoo and I'm still using it daily. It's slow but I have a cross-distcc farm on my other boxes to back it up.

The other one ran Debian, it's now in storage after a bad update broke the wifi - systemd hijacked wpa_supplicant and it no longer reads its own config file. Used to be a useful machine, can't justify the effort that distro demands from me any more.

Goverp · Post by **Goverp** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:20 am

I've two, an Asus netbook about 8 years old, a bit slow, but usable KDE for email and webbery when I'm away from home, and my wife's desktop machine, something like 20 years old, usable for email using LXDE, SeaMonkey and LibreOffice. Both currently run Arch linux; I was creating a Gentoo binpkg setup when some Arch guys set up www.archlinux32.org. I may try that, but I'd rather lose systemd by going (back) to Gentoo.

fturco · Post by **fturco** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:32 am

I use 64-bit machines exclusively since 2008-2009.

Website · Post by **Zucca** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:46 am

I have Compaq Armada E500, 900MHz Pentium 3, 384MiB RAM.
I still keep it around mainly as a terminal for my server. Although it doesn't run Gentoo atm. It was my first PC I ran Gentoo on. :)
I'm planning to put Gentoo back into it. I just need to set up proper crossdev environment somewhere.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:48 am

eccerr0r,

I still use i686 on an Intel Atom N270 powered netbook from 2008.
I don't use it much and only update it every year or so, that keeps my hand in updating old installs. :)
I might even use my phone an a replacement one day.

My NTP server runs on an early 32 bit Raspberry Pi 1 (256Mb RAM). That won't change any time soon.

Everything that is 64 bit capable runs 64 bit, including my Pi 3.

I only run 64 bit because I don't have any 128 or 256 bit hardware :)

Post by **John R. Graham** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:18 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:I still use i686 on an Intel Atom N270 powered netbook from 2008.
...
Everything that is 64 bit capable runs 64 bit, including my Pi 3.
...

Ditto. The netbook still runs fine but recent versions of Plasma really require a more beefy GPU to support all of that window dressing. The UI is no longer what you'd call peppy. Thinking about switching it to something lighter weight.

My big gun workstations all started life as 64-bit installs, but my home server started out in 2005 as 32-bit and has since been converted to 64-bit, just this year. Somewhere along the way it acquired a new motherboard that made that possible but I didn't take advantage of that until recently.

- John

AJM · Post by **AJM** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:53 pm

I have a few 32 bit only machines in service, most of which are older Pi and some of these are running Gentoo.

None of the 32 bit PC-based hardware I have is running Gentoo though, it's just not worth the effort for me... the most useful of these devices, due to its form factor and high-res screen is probably my HP 2133 netbook which is truly glacial with its Via C7 CPU - I don't intend compiling more than absolutely necessary on that!

Fitzcarraldo · Post by **Fitzcarraldo** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:21 pm

My last 32-bit machine went four years ago. All 64-bit these days.

Tony0945 · Post by **Tony0945** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:21 am

Still have a 32-bit k6-3 Gentoo machine. Presently converting it for use as a router because of the extra features available over a commercial router.
Do not plan to update it to 17.0 so I guess I will have to stop updating or find another workaround for the profile.

CasperVector · Post by **CasperVector** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:47 am

Tony0945 wrote:Still have a 32-bit k6-3 Gentoo machine. Presently converting it for use as a router because of the extra features available over a commercial router.
Do not plan to update it to 17.0 so I guess I will have to stop updating or find another workaround for the profile.

I do not want to appear like a marketing guy (which I am not indeed), but I really think you can consider Void and Alpine, both of which have been using hardened toolchains for a long time.
Noticing that Alpine aims to be also usable on soft routers (including those really low-end ones), I at least do not think its 32-bit variant will die soon...

Post by Hu » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:41 am

If your router was running hardened, then it's probably already PIE and there is no need for a mass rebuild. Even if it wasn't PIE, if you don't mind the occasional break from mixing PIE and non-PIE, you can ignore the mass rebuild and update as normal.

Website · Post by **Zucca** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:15 am

Tony0945 wrote:Do not plan to update it to 17.0 so I guess I will have to stop updating or find another workaround for the profile.

Why? Because of the pie?

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:59 am

Tony0945,

You can turn the (pie) off if you want. The profile changes a few other things too.
e.g. It unmasks a version of icu that needs gcc-6 to build. There may be others.
The /13.0/ profiles will be depreciated, then removed.

If you don't move profiles, there will come a time when you can't update any more.

eccerr0r · Post by **eccerr0r** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:12 am

oh...dang now we have a naming conflict, I was thinking about the email program "alpine"... :(

---

Anyway I also have the N270 Atom netbook (i945gm graphics), and due to its physical size/weight, it does have its use as a "disposable" portable. Running xfce4 with compositing turned off to make sure it doesn't spend cycles on eye candy. Xfce4 is still "ok" on this machine alas I can see some signs of GUI slowness on Audacity. Firefox is atrocious, barely usable. Its screen size is pitiful at 1024x600.

The Pentium-M 1.6GHz laptop (Radeon r200 graphics) I still use because it's the only portable I have that has a hardware rs232 port. It also runs xfce4 with compositing off. Barring the fact it has half the memory of the Atom and a mechanical HDD, the processor is noticeably faster than the Atom. Alas it too has trouble with Firefox but not quite as bad as the Atom. I'd miss this machine more than losing the Atom because of the serial port and its (highish resolution) LCD.

The 32-bit "server" at least is still fast enough for its purposes as it was not meant to be a client machine. Though bottlenecked by PCI (PCI RAID shared with PCI Gbit Ethernet) it's OK as they're mechanical spinners anyway, plenty of time for the P4 to do any computations.

The Atom necessarily gets updated somewhat frequently as if I'm carrying it around I'm likely connecting it to unknown wifi network connections, so it better be updated; unfortunately it's very slow, GUI and compiling :( The others get updates less frequently as they stay on my LAN and usually turned off.

I suspect I should convert my 32-bit VM first so it can help with distcc, or should I update the VM's 64-bit host first...

njharris · Post by **njharris** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:33 pm

I have a client with legacy HW running a common SW package on processors including a Pentium-M (32-bit) to Core 2. I've used Gentoo as a development base because it's stable and well supported.

Personal platform? A Core 2 laptop.

dweezil-n0xad · Post by **dweezil-n0xad** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:53 pm

eccerr0r wrote:The Atom necessarily gets updated somewhat frequently as if I'm carrying it around I'm likely connecting it to unknown wifi network connections, so it better be updated; unfortunately it's very slow, GUI and compiling The others get updates less frequently as they stay on my LAN and usually turned off.

I suspect I should convert my 32-bit VM first so it can help with distcc, or should I update the VM's 64-bit host first...

I also use Gentoo on an old Atom netbook, it's a newer 64-bit cpu though.
For big compiles like gcc for the new 17.0 profile, I export its root over NFSv4, mount and chroot into it from my fast i7 system and emerge gcc for the Atom with my i7 cpu (source).
That's much faster. I've been doing this successfully for a long time.

Code: Select all

$ uname -srvp
Linux 4.14.3-gentoo #1 SMP Mon Dec 4 17:37:46 CET 2017 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2600 @ 1.60GHz
$ genlop -t gcc --date 3 days ago
 * sys-devel/gcc

     Mon Dec  4 11:34:45 2017 >>> sys-devel/gcc-7.2.0
       merge time: 25 minutes and 22 seconds.

edit: hmm you would need to set up an entire 32-bit Gentoo installation in a VM to do this.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:46 pm

dweezil-n0xad,

I use cross distcc. My main system is 64 bit only. The kernel won't run 32 bit code, so a chroot is out.
I like the cross distcc workflow too, since I got into it with ARM and ARM64 systems.
Adding an i686 cross toolchain was a natural step.

mv · Post by mv » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:37 pm

One Laptop and one desktop are still x86 only.

KarlP · Post by **KarlP** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:48 pm

I still use 32 bit.
My main system is a HP d330 with a Pentium 4, 2.40GHz, 512 MB. And I have also a Gericom Masterpiece G732, with the same processor and memory.

The HP d330 is from 2003 and I have migrated starting with SUSE 8.2 to Archlinux (LXDE). As Arch has announced last spring that they would stop 32 bit support I searched for an alternative and found gentoo. So I hope that I can proceed with my long-term experiment some more years.

Tony0945 · Post by **Tony0945** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 pm

Zucca wrote:
Tony0945 wrote:Do not plan to update it to 17.0 so I guess I will have to stop updating or find another workaround for the profile.
Why? Because of the pie?

Yes, because of the performance hit on 32 bit.

Tony0945 · Post by **Tony0945** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:43 pm

NeddySeagoon wrote:dweezil-n0xad,

I use cross distcc. My main system is 64 bit only. The kernel won't run 32 bit code, so a chroot is out.

If you are speaking of your Phenom II, although your Gentoo install is apparently not multilib, your CPU is certainly capable of 32 bit. I have a 32bit partition on mine that I use to build binary packages for the k6-3. I did an i486 install, then rebuilt everything with -march=k6-3. Effectively it is a k6-3 with six cores and 3200MHz speed. emerge -e world on the real 450Mhz single core k6-3 took four days some years ago and I don't even have X11. So I build packages on the fake k6-3 and transfer the packages to the real machine using rsync. I could do this for the 17.0 profile change too, I guess. But there is that register loss thing about 32 bit. Tell me more, please, about 17.0 without pie. I did the full switch on my Athlon II and I will be doing it on the Phenom II and the Kaveri, but I don't want to on the old K-6 because I need to squeeze out all the performance that I can. OTOH, it will be facing the internet directly.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:26 am

Tony0945,

Its a /no-multilib/ install and 32 bit support in the kernel is off, so it won't even install grub without a kernel rebuild.
That's no hardship, grub was installed in 2009 and still works. Why change it :)

I'm aware its k6 compatible but I don't have anything that old any more.
Well, I have a 233 MHz P1 with Smoothwall installed as an emergency backup firewall/router but its not been powered on since 2011, so it probably won't go anyway.

I used to run a SETI farm in the days of Seti classic. When that stopped I made a deliberate decision to get rid of all the old stuff and move to a low power server.
All the individual servers I used to run on separate hardware are now KVMs in a HP Gen 7 Microserver. That's a single point of failure of course, hence the Smoothwall box.

Tony0945 · Post by **Tony0945** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:42 am

NeddySeagoon, IF you wanted to (and I gather that you don't), you could boot with sysrescuecd, rearrange your partitions and do 32-bit install with a grub installation to that partition.
Then you only have to add a chain load line to grub.conf. That's pretty much what I did when I put in an Ubuntu partition. grub legacy chain loads grub2 if you select that menu choice.

I installed Ubuntu to build SageTV which won't build on Gentoo. Something about Gentoo not supporting gradle whatever that is (I know nothing about java), but the developers give a script for building on Ubuntu. I've made several attempts to make an ebuild, but none succeeded.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:51 am

Tony0945,

True.

I can also drop swap and install DOS and Win 3.1 just for old times sake :)
Swap is next to /boot at the front of the drives.

32 bit x86 Gentoo - still use it?

Do you still run x86 32-bit Linux in 2017/2018?

32 bit x86 Gentoo - still use it?