The Mini-PC revolution

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52midnight · Post by **52midnight** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:24 am

I posted an earlier thread about Mini-PCs and wasn't surprised to find that few understood the subject, since I only came across it myself by chance. Briefly, there is a revolution well underway as to what constitutes a "PC" that will probably take another year to hit mainstream media. I've archived products from Asrock, Gigabyte, Asus, HP and others, but if you want to convince yourself of the fact, download this 4MB glossy and browse the contents:

http://fit-pc.com/download/General/fit- ... erview.pdf

My reason for posting this is that I intend buying a Mini in the near future and will want to install Gentoo, so I have a vested interest in keeping the good folks at Gentoo abreast of things if they're too busy buried deep in source code to have noticed.

stephan-t · Post by **stephan-t** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:06 am

I also think around mini-pc-s, but for heavy workload not enough mobile processors. I was plan build my own, in the near future from regular PC parts.

52midnight · Post by **52midnight** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:51 am

> for heavy workload not enough mobile processors.

Nope. Celerons and the i3/i5/i7 lot. RTFM.

roki942 · Post by **roki942** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:21 am

Intel also has a line of products
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ ... rview.html

Post by **asturm** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:48 am

52midnight wrote:Nope. Celerons and the i3/i5/i7 lot. RTFM.

Fun with throttling. You don't always get what it says on the box, like Ultrabooks that throttle down their CPU after n minutes of full load.

Naib · Post by **Naib** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:52 am

Olde

(well the concept of miniPC, the revolution was a number of years ago) I have been running either nano or picoITX + Gentoo as a home nas for quite a few years. I use to run nano+arch but after the 3 major annoying issues with arch hit me in one update ... NOP

Was using an nslu2 + Debian before that

52midnight · Post by **52midnight** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:15 am

> the revolution was a number of years ago.

Hmm. Well, I personally date it from the release of Intel's 14nm chips that allowed the first fanless boxes and mobos (Tuesday June 3, 2014 8:06 am PDT):

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/03/int ... reference/

"Intel today showed off a new reference PC design built around the company's upcoming Broadwell Core M processor. The Core M is based on a 14 nm process and will the first Broadwell chip to be made available to manufacturers, who are expected to debut the chip in retail products by the end of this year."

At the moment, if I say the words "P C", the image that automatically comes to mind is of a metal box about fifteen inches square and six inches wide that sits on or under your desk. Fast forward to 2020:

Granny Gadget: "Sarah! Guess what? I just bought myself an all-in-one-PC!"

Sarah Smart: "Oh Granny! That's soooo dated! Positively 2015!"

Just as video-chip manufs woke up one day to find they had what it took to become CPU vendors, so too are LCD manufs now waking up to find that they can be $$$ PC $$$ vendors $$$. Just bolt a Mini-PC on the back and you've got an "all-in-one-PC". And the advertising manager will immediately DEMAND that "all-in-on" be struck out.

The screen IS the PC. Who in their right mind would want to buy a PC-without-a-screen??? Even today, who in their right mind would want to buy a mobile phone without a screen to watch movies on while you're waiting for the bus to arrive?

Personally, I'm not much in favour of this, since I like the flexibility of a mobo and plug-in cards. The Mini-PC will be a niche-market geek item by 2025 if recent trends are any guide; but the Arduino/Odroid/Raspberry Pi milieu may be the saviour and final refuge of us Outlanders.

amospalla · Post by **amospalla** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:53 am

For reference, VIA Mini-itx dates from 2001, Nano-itx dates from 2005, Pico-itx from 2008, and Mobile-itx from 2009. I remember some funny boards with AMD Geode were made also years ago. Mini PC's are something that have existed for years, even mainstream fanless barebones have existed for years. I would say Via has been the company that was always behind these small form factors.

It has always been something fascinating, but these things have been always expensive.

52midnight · Post by **52midnight** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:36 am

> these things have been always expensive.

Until now. And not fanless:

http://www.fanlesstech.com/

Anyhow, I'll bow out. I'm talking about REAL PC's (Intel/AMD) not toys with mobile phone CPUs.

Naib · Post by **Naib** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:53 am

The via picoITX I am presently using is fanless. The case has a fan mind but I could remove that

stephan-t · Post by **stephan-t** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:56 am

52midnight wrote:> for heavy workload not enough mobile processors.

Nope. Celerons and the i3/i5/i7 lot. RTFM.

Compared with desktop not much power. ~400 dollars SoC without memory and Storage Disk, worthly spend of money.

amospalla · Post by **amospalla** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:57 am

52midnight wrote:> these things have been always expensive.

Until now. And not fanless:

http://www.fanlesstech.com/

Fanless VIA products have existed since the start of these form factors, the same as Geode (1999) for example, all these things date to the start/mid 2000's. If you want more info about all these products you can google a bit.

Naib · Post by **Naib** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:40 am

All that aside (as it is clear the smaller form factors have been around for ages and fanless as well) there are considerations with these smaller form factors and Gentoo

And that is compiling. Mine easily hits 60+ when compiling and I tend to update that machine only overnight. Cross compiling is equally an option.

This nanoITX is my main package.gentoo.org sync box and I rsync from that. Not sure what todo now it is git

Roman_Gruber · Post by **Roman_Gruber** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:23 pm

well

shuttle pc, dates back to yaer 2000 or earlier ...

intel nuc, has issues with not every ram is accepted.

and when you want something small, buy a netbook / ultrabook / notebook. and those have issues regarding throttlign, as someone wrote earlier.

I also do not get your point in the first place.

we already have different sizes of mainboards, some even ship with the cpu on board: ATX µATX Flex-ATX Mini-ITX Thin-Mini-ITX Nano-ITX UCFF

mini-itx is quite small, and there are even smaller things.

These things exists quite for a while, premade as intel nuc for example or do it yourself....

you could also use a tablet ...

it all matters on the apps you need / want ...

Post by **asturm** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:28 pm

tw04l124 wrote:shuttle pc, dates back to yaer 2000 or earlier ...

That's an entirely different size.

tw04l124 wrote:intel nuc, has issues with not every ram is accepted.

True statement for any mainboard.

52midnight · Post by **52midnight** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:11 pm

> Compared with desktop not much power. ~400 dollars SoC without memory and Storage Disk, worthly spend of money

OK, I'll assume that English is your third language - no penalties.

Consider this:

http://www.compulab.co.il/about/company-history/

They've been in business since 1992 and are still hiring. They're charging top dollar for unit quantities because they don't want the business. Try asking for a quote for 100 units per month for the next two years and you'll get a different price.

And if a $20 el cheapo FlashyBox from Nerdistan could fit the bill, why are they still in business?

But then, you'd have to think independently about that. Much better just to post a snide comment or two.

stephan-t · Post by **stephan-t** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:28 pm

52midnight wrote:> Compared with desktop not much power. ~400 dollars SoC without memory and Storage Disk, worthly spend of money

OK, I'll assume that English is your third language - no penalties.

Consider this:

http://www.compulab.co.il/about/company-history/

They've been in business since 1992 and are still hiring. They're charging top dollar for unit quantities because they don't want the business. Try asking for a quote for 100 units per month for the next two years and you'll get a different price.

And if a $20 el cheapo FlashyBox from Nerdistan could fit the bill, why are they still in business?

But then, you'd have to think independently about that. Much better just to post a snide comment or two.

WAIT, I'm not trolling or everything else, this is MY opinion.

amospalla · Post by **amospalla** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:48 pm

stephan-t wrote:WAIT, I'm not trolling or everything else, this is MY opinion.

Don't worry about that, you are not the one who is trolling this thread. The guy that opened the thread has been several times very unpolite while also talking about something that doesn't have much knowledge and not accepting other comments.

@52midnight you should consider being more polite and read carefully what other people say, think other users trying to correct you on something is a good opportunity to learn.

Thinks like:

- "RTFM"
- "OK, I'll assume that English is your third language."
- "Much better just to post a snide comment or two."

don't make any good to a conversation with anybody. Just think about it.

GrumpyGeriatric · Post by **GrumpyGeriatric** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:01 am

amospalla wrote:
stephan-t wrote:WAIT, I'm not trolling or everything else, this is MY opinion.
Don't worry about that, you are not the one who is trolling this thread. The guy that opened the thread has been several times very unpolite while also talking about something that doesn't have much knowledge and not accepting other comments.

@52midnight you should consider being more polite and read carefully what other people say, think other users trying to correct you on something is a good opportunity to learn.

Thinks like:
- "RTFM"
- "OK, I'll assume that English is your third language."
- "Much better just to post a snide comment or two."

don't make any good to a conversation with anybody. Just think about it.

Methinks a lack of humour is somewhat in evidence. Is this all so very serious?
This young generation is so PRECIOUS.
How DARE anyone criticize their SAYINGS.
They must be VALIDATED.
They are the inheritors of EARTH and must be ACKNOWLEDGED.
They are HOLY.
They are VIRGIN.
etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. ..ad nauseam
Oh! And I forgot. They are UUNNIIQQUUEE!!!!

steveL · Post by **steveL** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:37 am

stephan-t wrote:WAIT, I'm not trolling or everything else, this is MY opinion.

Good on ya.

amospalla wrote:Don't worry about that, you are not the one who is trolling this thread. The guy that opened the thread has been several times very unpolite while also talking about something that doesn't have much knowledge and not accepting other comments.

@52midnight you should consider being more polite and read carefully what other people say, think other users trying to correct you on something is a good opportunity to learn.

Thinks like:
- "RTFM"
- "OK, I'll assume that English is your third language."
- "Much better just to post a snide comment or two."

don't make any good to a conversation with anybody. Just think about it.

++ and well-put.

GrumpyGeriatric wrote:Methinks a lack of humour is somewhat in evidence. Is this all so very serious?

Nonsense; for that accusation to hold, there'd have had to be a joke or two along the way, rather than sniping.

This young generation is so PRECIOUS.

That's always been true, and I doubt it's going to change any time soon; but it's not about whether they can ego-detach from their work or statements: it's about not being a dicq.

How DARE anyone criticize their SAYINGS.

Trust me, that's not unique to the young, only to assholes; and plenty of older, should-be-wiser, folks are complete assholes on a regular basis.

They must be VALIDATED.
They are the inheritors of EARTH and must be ACKNOWLEDGED.
They are HOLY.
They are VIRGIN.
etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. ..ad nauseam
Oh! And I forgot. They are UUNNIIQQUUEE!!!!

Well you're right on all that; the nub-skool are full of crap. But not every youngster is a nub.

In summary: it doesn't matter what age you are; anyone can be a dicq, and we all have the tendency towards lazy dismissal rather than reasoning.
Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from making mistakes. It's all about how you deal with your own mistakes, ime.
So the young are going to make mistakes, by definition. Big deal: different day, same shit.

It's not like age brings freedom from mistake, or indeed being a nub.

Post by **NeddySeagoon** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:47 pm

steveL wrote: ... it doesn't matter what age you are; anyone can be a dicq

Its called 'a senior moment' when you get to my age :)

krinn · Post by **krinn** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:46 am

steveL wrote:Trust me, that's not unique to the young, only to assholes; and plenty of older, should-be-wiser, folks are complete assholes on a regular basis.

And when an old is thinking and acting like young, you'll get the king of ass.
Peter Pan must be such an ass!!!

I try to keep that in mind (kinda a self mantra): you're always an asshole for someone ; and typically because things are well done, when you think someone is an ass, magically that "someone" think you are the ass

steveL · Post by **steveL** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:16 pm

steveL wrote: ... it doesn't matter what age you are; anyone can be a dicq

NeddySeagoon wrote:Its called 'a senior moment' when you get to my age :)

Lol.

I'm still at the point where I can call it a "bad-hair day", but I'm looking "forward" to the time when I can chalk it up to senility; soon.. ;-)

steveL wrote:Trust me, that's not unique to the young, only to assholes; and plenty of older, should-be-wiser, folks are complete assholes on a regular basis.

krinn wrote:And when an old is thinking and acting like young, you'll get the king of ass.

Yeah; no fool like, nor as stubborn as, an old fool.
The older you get, the more you find yourself thinking that. ;-)

I try to keep that in mind (kinda a self mantra): you're always an asshole for someone; and typically because things are well done, when you think someone is an ass, magically that "someone" think you are the ass :)

Oh sure, it's usually a mutual feeling.

I try to tell myself "there's always going to be at least one person making an ass of themselves, and if you don't know who it is, it's probably you."

Been re-reading Robertson Davies' "The Deptford Trilogy" (starts with "Fifth Business"); he talks about myths and archetypes, which I find quite interesting as so much of our culture derives from stories, and indeed memory is effectively a narrative.
Slightly rambling, this relates to cognitive dissonance, and how really our conscious is more a post-facto rationalisation after we've made the decision already, not the decision-making process itself; in effect the story we tell ourselves, should we ever need to justify ourselves to our peers. Again, a narrative; although we do have veto, most of the time we just go along with whatever our body's already decided.
Getting back to this point ;) it seems to me that if no-one else has taken the/an asshat line, someone will just for a joke, ie to alleviate the tension. In effect fulfilling the archetype, hopefully of jester, but sometimes of angry boy that needs to piss somewhere else.

OFC none of that is any good wrt sociopaths, but they're good at appearing "normal" w/e that means; so if the prevailing ethos is toward collaboration, they'll at least go along with it on the surface. Sometimes that's enough, given enough human-beings (for whom compassion and empathy are not an act, but triggers for a pain-reflex) who are aware of the game.
Unfortunately, more often it's not, given that tendency toward lazy thinking/dismissal and a vague sense that "someone must be taking care of it", which characterise cognitive dissonance and lala-land.

Sociopaths tend to be single-minded, and appear like they have focus and direction, which they do. Just not on the aspects which make life worth living for the rest of us, for we are social animals. (There's a book called "The Social Animal" though I don't recall the authors; a bit full of themselves and how great consumerism is, but interesting read.)
So they do quite well, usually, and ofc now the whole setup is a sociopathic fraud on all of us.

kernelOfTruth · Post by **kernelOfTruth** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:09 pm

GrumpyGeriatric wrote: Methinks a lack of humour is somewhat in evidence. Is this all so very serious?
This young generation is so PRECIOUS.
How DARE anyone criticize their SAYINGS.
They must be VALIDATED.
They are the inheritors of EARTH and must be ACKNOWLEDGED.
They are HOLY.
They are VIRGIN.
etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. .. etc. ..ad nauseam
Oh! And I forgot. They are UUNNIIQQUUEE!!!!

(word !)

Giggle

Get off my lawn:

you must be new here:

Every young generation is that way