Am I being forced to use systemd now?

[patrix_neo]

GNOME users are stuck with it. Most others are not. You did not provide the full package dependency tree, so we cannot see why you are scheduled to merge the packages which require systemd. Mask systemd and the immediate reverse dependencies for it, then try again.

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# Lennart
sys-apps/systemd
sys-power/upower
sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration

Thank you. This was not in the news read and it fixed it for me. Anyways...Lennart van der Fart von Poettering - I don't like you muy bien.

[mackal]

This was not in the news read and it fixed it for me.

That's because it shouldn't be needed. I'm guessing something on your system is set up in a way that causes issues (either something masked that shouldn't be or an older ebuild that needs to be updated [maybe in an overlay?])

I would recommend trying to figure out what is causing the issue and fixing it, it will probably cause more issues down the road for you is all.

[andreios]

Dear Developer, please don't go with stupid.

Today I have tried to update my system as result it asked me to install systemd because upower wants it

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  (sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
    >=sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
    >=sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

But upower seems to have a new use flag:

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[ebuild     U  ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 [0.9.23-r2] USE="introspection -doc -ios (-systemd%)" 0 kB

yeah, I understand master, just turn my brain off and use systemd now....

[xaviermiller]

Did you read the news ? upower is for systemd, upower-pm-utils is for non-systemd.

[andreios]

Did you read the news ? upower is for systemd, upower-pm-utils is for non-systemd.

Yeah, ok.
I have upower uninstalled now!

But when I update world, it wants to pull in upower

pretty logic to me, when it is for systemd and i have no systemd !!!

[xaviermiller]

did you installed upower-pm-utils ?
If not, upower will be pushed.

[andreios]

did you installed upower-pm-utils ?
If not, upower will be pushed.

Usual Gentoo's dependence system works very well, most of the time. I just wonder why this can't be handled by portage.

[leifbk]

If you're not using systemd, you need remove sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils.

Or, if you are like me and you couldn't care less about power-management bells and whistles, just get rid of upower altogether: add "-upower" to your USE flags in make.conf. Doing that just made my life a lot simpler.

Thanks, you made my day

[xaviermiller]

It is handled, but provided upower by default.

[NaiL]

My bad, I wrongly understood that gentoo uses systemd now on because of this.

I did all the steps in the wiki to migrate to systemd. Now I'm dealing with the systemd nightmare with no reason.

I hope you can avoid my mistake.

[xaviermiller]

Gentoo don't use systemd by default. You still have the choice.

[NaiL]

It is too late for me, but save yourselves from systemd! :_(

[andreios]

It is handled, but provided upower by default.

So upower is provided by default -> so systemd is provided by default? This makes no sense.

[i92guboj]

It is handled, but provided upower by default.

I know that most times things like this happen because users are unable to read what they have just in front of their faces.

But we have to admit as well that having upower, and thus systemd, as a default is quite strange for a distro that's not supposed to default to systemd. I guess some bug filling is due here.

[Naib]

My bad, I understand that gentoo now uses systemd because of this, I did all the steps in the wiki to migrate to systemd, resulting in non-usable system.

STOP SPREADING FUD!
Gentoo uses systemd as much as it uses vanilla-sources for its kernel or lilo for its boot manager.

The user has a choice, Gentoo ONLY forces python,bash,portage (plus a few other little things) to ensure the system can be managed. EVERYTHING else is purely dependencies of user chosen packages.

upower (upstream) changed to depend on systemd. If you CHOOSE to stay with upower obviously you will need systemd because upower demands it.
specifics surrounding upower on gentoo and co are different and are ~arch specific iirc, testing ground for mitigation.

[NaiL]

My bad, I understand that gentoo now uses systemd because of this, I did all the steps in the wiki to migrate to systemd, resulting in non-usable system.

STOP SPREADING FUD!
Gentoo uses systemd as much as it uses vanilla-sources for its kernel or lilo for its boot manager.

The user has a choice, Gentoo ONLY forces python,bash,portage (plus a few other little things) to ensure the system can be managed. EVERYTHING else is purely dependencies of user chosen packages.

upower (upstream) changed to depend on systemd. If you CHOOSE to stay with upower obviously you will need systemd because upower demands it.
specifics surrounding upower on gentoo and co are different and are ~arch specific iirc, testing ground for mitigation.

I edited my post, I hope you like it

[leifbk]

upower (upstream) changed to depend on systemd. If you CHOOSE to stay with upower obviously you will need systemd because upower demands it.

Then I think that portage should handle the transition to sys-power/upower-pm-utils automatically when systemd is not present as a use flag in make.conf. If I have understood correctly, this could be handled by a virtual.

specifics surrounding upower on gentoo and co are different and are ~arch specific iirc, testing ground for mitigation.

I'm running stable amd64, and got this mess today.

[sk3l]

How does the "systemd" USE flag influence this situation?

I have -systemd set in make.conf.

When I look at the dependency graph for the current stable upower (0.9.23-r2), which I have installed, I see:

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 * dependency graph for sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2
 `--  sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2  amd64 
   `--  dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.100.2-r1  (>=dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.100) amd64 
   `--  dev-libs/glib-2.38.2-r1  (>=dev-libs/glib-2.22) amd64 
   `--  sys-apps/dbus-1.6.18-r1  (sys-apps/dbus) amd64 
   `--  sys-auth/polkit-0.112-r1  (>=sys-auth/polkit-0.110) amd64 
   `--  dev-libs/gobject-introspection-1.38.0  (dev-libs/gobject-introspection) amd64 
   `--  virtual/libusb-1-r1  (virtual/libusb) amd64 
   `--  virtual/udev-208-r1  (>=virtual/udev-200) amd64  [gudev]
   `--  app-pda/libimobiledevice-1.1.5  (>=app-pda/libimobiledevice-1) amd64 
   `--  app-pda/libplist-1.10  (>=app-pda/libplist-1) amd64 
   `--  dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.28-r1  (dev-libs/libxslt) amd64 
   `--  app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.78.0  (app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets) amd64 
   `--  dev-util/intltool-0.50.2-r1  (dev-util/intltool) amd64 
   `--  virtual/pkgconfig-0  (virtual/pkgconfig) amd64 
   `--  dev-util/gtk-doc-1.20  (dev-util/gtk-doc) amd64 
   `--  app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.1.2-r6  (app-text/docbook-xml-dtd) amd64 
   `--  sys-power/pm-utils-1.4.1-r2  (>=sys-power/pm-utils-1.4.1) amd64 
   `--  app-shells/bash-4.2_p45  (app-shells/bash) amd64 
   `--  sys-apps/systemd-212-r5  (>=sys-apps/systemd-200) amd64
[ sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2 stats: packages (19), max depth (1) ]

In my case, turning off the global "systemd" USE flag has seemingly prevented upower-0.9.23-r2 from pulling in systemd.

However, this state of affairs confuses me. If systemd is an optional dependency of upower-0.9.23-r2, as seems to be the case(?), then shouldn't the dependency graph have shown "sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 (systemd? >=sys-apps/systemd-200) amd64" instead?

[SamuliSuominen]

upower (upstream) changed to depend on systemd. If you CHOOSE to stay with upower obviously you will need systemd because upower demands it.

That's wrong, you are oversimplifying a complex issue. New upower is meant also for non-systemd users.

Did you read the news ? upower is for systemd, upower-pm-utils is for non-systemd.

That's not what the news item said. That's oversimplifying the issue. It says "or" followed by "# emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'" in the non-systemd section. Meaning that new UPower is for non-systemd users too.

If it had been easy as you make it sound, somekind of USE="systemd" would have been possible, and Portage would be able to solve it more sanely, but it's not that easy because Gentoo offers so many different setups to have, more than
other distributions.

[schorsch_76]

Thank you ssuominen for your effort here! I did read gentoo-devel too

[Naib]

upower (upstream) changed to depend on systemd. If you CHOOSE to stay with upower obviously you will need systemd because upower demands it.

That's wrong, you are oversimplifying a complex issue. New upower is meant also for non-systemd users.

It was over-simplified to stress gentoo doesn't actually demand stuff like this

[khayyam]

My bad, I understand that gentoo now uses systemd because of this, I did all the steps in the wiki to migrate to systemd, resulting in non-usable system.

STOP SPREADING FUD!

Naib ... that doesn't read like FUD but a combination of language use (note they are located in Spain, and therefore probably not a native english speaker) and the fact that having being presented with systemd as a dependency had assumed this was a *necessary* upgrade path. That's an easy mistake to make given output from emerge.

The user has a choice, Gentoo ONLY forces python,bash,portage (plus a few other little things) to ensure the system can be managed. EVERYTHING else is purely dependencies of user chosen packages.

Yes, but when systemd has the stated goal of a "standard base system", and when dependencies are "gently pushing" that "standard base system" then at some point there will be no "choice" involved but to adopt that "standard base system". For users who don't know how to go about avoiding said "gentle push" and have come to depend on various components working with their currently installed init then this "choice" is not simply a matter of "you have the choice", because that "choice" can involve technical understanding that the user may not have, and/or involve abandoning some functionality.

best ... khay

[Zwisel]

If you're not using systemd, you need remove sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils.

+1
thanks, this fixed it for my xfce4 DE

[Zwisel]

Yes, but when systemd has the stated goal of a "standard base system", and when dependencies are "gently pushing" that "standard base system" then at some point there will be no "choice" involved but to adopt that "standard base system". For users who don't know how to go about avoiding said "gentle push" and have come to depend on various components working with their currently installed init then this "choice" is not simply a matter of "you have the choice", because that "choice" can involve technical understanding that the user may not have, and/or involve abandoning some functionality.

Funny post but... I still have a choice and my choice is to NOT install systemd. And it is still working.
Of course it needs a bit technical understanding and a bit googling, too. But who's using Gentoo without this skills?! I expect this from a Gentoo-user, otherwise there are many "simpler" distros out there (even if I'm missing the comfort of Portage in most other distros ).

[Naib]

simpler distro's are using systemd.

I am sure at some point some REALLY nasty update will pretty much force systemd on the general user so much so that the effort to not use it will be a massive detriment to the end-user. But that isn't now (wait till apache/nginx depends on sysd for instance ..)