KeithP's X Server: It's sexy

Message

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:30 am

I still can't get this thing to work right, but that's probably idiocy on my part. Anyone feel like writing a nice script to start Xserver and some WM/DE...?

Oh well, hopefully they can get some stuff done towards making this a complete replacement for XFree86 (from what I've seen, it's almost there, but not *there* yet). The few things that I miss, and can't seem to fix...

1) Xinerama
2) "Easy" File Configuration (like XF86Config-4)
3) Ease of Use (startx)
4) A Single Build Script/Ebuild (Not that I don't like going into CVS, but it's a lot easier to run one command as opposed to 100

)

I fully expect that they'll get those things done very soon, and push Xserver to a beta release, or at least alpha release. It's too good to not release it soon!

Maybe if I'm really lucky, I'll wake up, and everything will be fixed, or fixed for idiots like me who really have to learn how all this stuff works under Linux so they don't waste other people's time with useless posts like this...

aethyr · Post by **aethyr** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:41 am

Ian, here's exactly what I did.

I made sure I exported the right variables:

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export WANT_AUTOCONF_2_5=1
export WANT_AUTOMAKE=1.7

Then I followed the instructions, until the last part (about starting the server):
http://freedesktop.org/Software/XserverInstallGuide

I went to the terminal (ALT-F2) and started the Xserver:

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sudo /opt/fdo/bin/Xvesa :1 -screen 1024x768x16 -ac -dpi 96

I went to another terminal (ALT-F3) and started GNOME:

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export DISPLAY=:1
gnome-session

I went to Display :1 (ALT-F8) where GNOME was starting up. I opened up the GNOME-terminal and performed the following command:

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LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/fdo/lib /opt/fdo/bin/xcompmgr

That's pretty much it.

[edit] found an easier way to set resolution/depth.

encon · Post by **encon** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:52 am

Ok you got it to work.....
Post us an Ebuild

NuclearFusi0n · Post by **NuclearFusi0n** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:19 am

The problem with translucent windows is that they make the text also translucent. For example, with this fake translucency we have today, you can set a window to be totally translucent and have free floating 100% opaque text. With something like Windows or DirectFB, the text becomes translucent along with the window, so a window at 100% translucency is totally invisible, and any bit of translucency decreases text readability.

This XServer thing will probably do it like Windows won't it?

shm · Post by **shm** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:42 am

NuclearFusi0n wrote:With something like Windows or DirectFB, the text becomes translucent along with the window, so a window at 100% translucency is totally invisible, and any bit of translucency decreases text readability.

This XServer thing will probably do it like Windows won't it?

No.. there is no reason why you couldn't overlay the text over the window. OSX's terminal does just this.

iamlarryboy · Post by **iamlarryboy** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:06 am

I just tested this out. VERY COOL! I highly recomend trying it out yourself.

here is what I had to do to get it working.

First, I ran this script. I had to remove one line that tried to apply a nonexistant patch.

Second, I had to copy the libs in /opt/fdo/lib to /lib (dunno why. Probly some PATH problem.)

Third, I ran "/opt/fdo/bin/Xvesa :0 -mode 0x117 -ac -dpi 96" from the command line without an Xserver running

Fourth, I ran rxvt from my second console. It detected the xserver.

Fifth, In the rxvt terminal I ran "startkde"

Finally, I started a konsole and ran "/opt/fdo/bin/xcompmgr"

This xserver has some very cool stuff. For an alpha it is beyond belief. The fonts look unbelievable. I don't know why.

My prediction: Within 2 years this will be THE x11 server replacing XFree. Based on what I am seeing XFree is toast!

We have:
1) Cool stuff
2) fast build time ( < 10 min )
3) active development
4) vision

We need:
1) an ebuild dammit

Really do try this xserver out!

Lisandro · Post by **Lisandro** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:18 am

I just found about this one; haven't compiled it but for an alpha it looks absolutely incredible. Seems that everything Keith Packard touches turns into gold...

I think it could give XFree86 a *SERIOUS* run for it's money. What will happen when KDE/GNOME/(putyourde-wmhere) start requiering these new X extensions for eye candy 95% of users will want and XFree86 won't support them? Who knows, maybe the XFree team will change it's attitude. I can't say i'd be sad, specially after reading stuff like the Cygwin deal...

I want an ebuild. I want a 1.0

And i love you, xserver developers!

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:52 am

Cossins wrote:Or did you mean more or less metaphorically speaking? In that case, I am deeply sorry for crapping out on you...
[/Edit]

- Simon

Yes. I though the "think of it like this" was a dead giveaway. But apparently it was not

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:54 am

SmegTheLight wrote:
Evangelion wrote: Xfree is GNOME
Xouvert is Garnome (that's the devel-version of GNOME right?)
Xserver is KDE
That analogy only works if you are one of those wierd people that people that belive KDE is better then GNOME

Huh? I chose that analogy because GNOME has a developement-branch (Garnome), but KDE does not (I don't consider public betas and CVS as such). My analogy does NOT have some hidden meaning that implies that KDE is superior to GNOME!

Lovechild · Post by **Lovechild** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:42 am

Evangelion wrote:
SmegTheLight wrote:
Evangelion wrote: Xfree is GNOME
Xouvert is Garnome (that's the devel-version of GNOME right?)
Xserver is KDE
That analogy only works if you are one of those wierd people that people that belive KDE is better then GNOME
Huh? I chose that analogy because GNOME has a developement-branch (Garnome), but KDE does not (I don't consider public betas and CVS as such). My analogy does NOT have some hidden meaning that implies that KDE is superior to GNOME!

errgghh.. KDE has a development branch just as much as GNOME has, they do alpha releases, beta releases and Release candidates..

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:57 am

Lovechild wrote:
Evangelion wrote:Huh? I chose that analogy because GNOME has a developement-branch (Garnome), but KDE does not (I don't consider public betas and CVS as such). My analogy does NOT have some hidden meaning that implies that KDE is superior to GNOME!
errgghh.. KDE has a development branch just as much as GNOME has, they do alpha releases, beta releases and Release candidates..

It appears Evangelion's ignorance extends beyond Xfree/Xouvert/Xserver and beyond the major DEs.

Hole... digging... deeper.

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:04 am

Lovechild wrote:GNOME has, they do alpha releases, beta releases and Release candidates..

No, no and no. Doesn't GNOME follow the Linux-way? I mean, official releases (2.0, 2.2, 2.4 etc.) and developement-branch (2.1, 2.3, 2.5)? KDE does not have anything like that. And, like I said (if you had bothered to read my post) I don't consider betas and CVS's to be the same as "developement-branch)

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:07 am

charlieg wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
Evangelion wrote:Huh? I chose that analogy because GNOME has a developement-branch (Garnome), but KDE does not (I don't consider public betas and CVS as such). My analogy does NOT have some hidden meaning that implies that KDE is superior to GNOME!
errgghh.. KDE has a development branch just as much as GNOME has, they do alpha releases, beta releases and Release candidates..
It appears Evangelion's ignorance extends beyond Xfree/Xouvert/Xserver and beyond the major DEs.

Hole... digging... deeper.

Hey asshole: STFU. Could you please provide an example how I'm "ignorant" when it comes to Xfree/Xounvert/Xserver? I wasn't the one who claimed that Xouvert is a fork of Xfree (which it isn't)

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:38 am

Ari Rahikkala · Post by **Ari Rahikkala** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:56 am

Posting this message from under GNOME in Xvesa...

First, how I got it working: I exported the WANT_AUTOCONF and WANT_AUTOMATE environment variables that were mentioned earlier in this thread, then copypasted the commands in the Install Guide into a terminal. This part was rather trivial (except that I had to configure sudo for it, but then again, that's something I should have done ages ago). I could have just as well used the script, but ah well.

Then, running the server: My graphics are run by a Radeon 7500 so I chose Xvesa. The command line that got the mouse wheel working was

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sudo /opt/fdo/bin/Xvesa -ac -screen 1280x1024x32 r -dpi 96 -mouse /dev/psaux,5 &

. Then I just ran

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env DISPLAY=:0 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/fdo/lib /opt/fdo/bin/xcompmgr &

to start the compositing manager and

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DISPLAY=:0 gnome-session

for GNOME. This was without an X server already running, of course.

On to the impressions. I'm... impressed. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't work, of course - several extensions are absent, there's severe breakage in key mappings (*), etc.. but those seem to me like stuff that should be more or less trivially fixable once the server gains wider use. It's also a bit on the unstable side - I've had two crashes already (Xvesa crashes and leaves the keyboard and screen unusable), both of which I've gotten up from by starting XFree from a different computer with ssh. Of course it's rather slow, too - that's to be expected. Hardware acceleration will come later, I'm sure.

And yes, it's cool. Not only for those translucency effects (I played a movie under a translucent menu just to watch the smooth composition), but for that it's already this far. If this is the kind of development speed that the XFree86 project's inertia has barred, then damnit, it's about time they got some serious competition...

(*) Of course I could fix most of this stuff with xmodmap, but there's some stuff that I don't quite understand... for example, why autorepeat works for any other key but cursor-down... except that, hell, now it seems to work for that, too

. I guess I just need to know the internals of X's keyboard model better...

Ari Rahikkala · Post by **Ari Rahikkala** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:59 am

BTW... I like the... focus of this project, too. Window translucency isn't really much of a goal worth changing much for, IMO. The architecture with the compositing manager, although it adds yet more complexity to X (as if separate window managers and toolkits weren't enough), ought to be useful for quite a lot of stuff...

mr_smidge · Post by **mr_smidge** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:06 am

I'm all for moving to a more modern system than XFree86 as much as the next person, and while this looks very cool indeed, does anybody have any opinions on the Y Windowing System?

Having looked at the code, I think it has the potential to be fantastic..

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:51 am

charlieg wrote:

Still waiting.

shm · Post by **shm** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:45 pm

Ari Rahikkala wrote:BTW... I like the... focus of this project, too. Window translucency isn't really much of a goal worth changing much for, IMO. The architecture with the compositing manager, although it adds yet more complexity to X (as if separate window managers and toolkits weren't enough), ought to be useful for quite a lot of stuff...

Yeah, somebody (the guy who wrote dotNET for KDE) on #freedesktop is already writing a expose clone with this. More interesting stuff should follow.

zypher · Post by **zypher** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:18 pm

Yep, that looks promising.
I just started it for the first time.
Xfce4, moz and xchat run fine (atm actually). I'll check some video later on.
btw, I'm using the Xr128 server and it's not slow at all, a bit laggy perhaps, and no gl-acceleration of course.
I'll definitely keep an eye on this, maybe it's time someone writes ebuilds for this. If I find enought time at the we I'll do it.
Cheers,
zypher

fca · Post by **fca** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:09 pm

I'm trying to build an ebuild for this (tricky, as I want 1 ebuild, not 19), but it seems in testing it, I've been kicked from their CVS server...
Doing 100 connects in under 2 minutes apparantly was a bit too much.

Maybe I have to make 19 ebuilds after all.

idl · Post by **idl** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:20 pm

Just a little while longer and I will have some ebuilds for you.

EDIT: Might not be untill tomorrow now, the pub is calling me again.

hook · Post by **hook** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:52 pm

just seen their site (and searched for this thread after that)
well, here's my 0.02:
1) stop fighting (especially on that sensless KDEvs.GNOME bit!!)
2) looks nice, i hope that it'll develop well and that it'll get into portage when it's ripe to pluck

iamlarryboy · Post by **iamlarryboy** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:08 pm

port001 wrote:Just a little while longer and I will have some ebuilds for you.

EDIT: Might not be untill tomorrow now, the pub is calling me again.

Yes I just finnished a big paper for school. I think I too hear the call of the pub!

ebrostig · Post by **ebrostig** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:47 pm

port001 wrote:Just a little while longer and I will have some ebuilds for you.

EDIT: Might not be untill tomorrow now, the pub is calling me again.

Is there a chance for ebuilds with tarballs of the source? Can't use CVS through a firewall, so I'm pretty much lost.

Oh, btw, the pub has your private numbers and they call you when the sale is down?

Erik

KeithP's X Server: It's sexy

so wheres the ebuild then aethyr :P