Reasons you use Gnome over KDE

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Qball · Post by **Qball** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:21 pm

I use gnome because of it's simplicity, most things (not all) are on a logical place. In kde (that I used until version 2.x) I am alway's lost.
(**cough** kde control center **cough**)

But this is just a personal opinion.
There are also severall good things in kde I like, and would like to see in gnome.

The problem with this discussion that its to much "I like", everybody has it own taste, I use gnome because I like it, my classmate uses XFCE because he likes that better. Other people like KDE because they like that better.

Nothing wrong with that.
The only think I would like is to see more "interaction" (read "not intergration") , what I mean is.. that I want to be able to see my adress book in kde/gnome/etc independent of program and DE.
The same for alot of other things (bookmarks, anti-aliasing type, etc) .

It would be very nice if a few gnome/kde/etc developers join force to make some shared, (toolkit independent), libraries (or whatever) for accessing user information like this.

Let users use what they like, we live in a free world don't we.
This type's of threads lead to nothing constructive anyway.

Vishruth · Post by **Vishruth** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:24 pm

I use Gnome because I simply don't like the Kluttered-Desktop-Environment (as a friend of mine put it).

duff · Post by **duff** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:05 pm

Qball wrote:It would be very nice if a few gnome/kde/etc developers join force to make some shared, (toolkit independent), libraries (or whatever) for accessing user information like this.

Isn't that what freedesktop.org is trying to accomplish?

RedBeard0531 · Post by **RedBeard0531** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:08 pm

Qball wrote:This type's of threads lead to nothing constructive anyway.

yeah, but they are fun!

Qball · Post by **Qball** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:04 pm

duff wrote:
Qball wrote:It would be very nice if a few gnome/kde/etc developers join force to make some shared, (toolkit independent), libraries (or whatever) for accessing user information like this.
Isn't that what freedesktop.org is trying to accomplish?

yes.. but still could use extra efford.

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:21 pm

Ari Rahikkala wrote:What's my opinion about KDE? I hate those endless rows of useless icons, drawn with plenty of bright yellows and cyans.

You know, there are lots and lots of icons available for KDE. I'm sure you can find a set that you like. And you can trim out the icons if you don't like 'em.

The default colour scheme is revolting.

The change it! Sheesh!

Ari Rahikkala · Post by **Ari Rahikkala** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:24 pm

Evangelion wrote:
Ari Rahikkala wrote:What's my opinion about KDE? I hate those endless rows of useless icons, drawn with plenty of bright yellows and cyans.
You know, there are lots and lots of icons available for KDE. I'm sure you can find a set that you like. And you can trim out the icons if you don't like 'em.

The default colour scheme is revolting.
The change it! Sheesh!

I'm lazy :p. No, really, when you think of it... sure, the KDE folks might have made the environment look decent by default but didn't. I guess it is forgivable since you can configure all the crap out of it...

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 pm

Verteron wrote:But the point is this; competition makes business. Why should I pay Trolltech when I can create GTK, Motif, Windows, Mac OS X or Java closed source commercial applications for nothing?

Because Qt offers improvements not available on those platforms

Say Trolltech go bust, stop producing QT. KDE will survive because it's GPL'd. But what about commercial developers? They can no-longer use the QT toolkit so their products and profits are ruined.

Uh, no. In case developement of GPL'ed Qt stops, it gets re-licensed under the BSD-license. And why couldn't the companies keep on using older version of Qt? Or do you assume that if TT goes bust, their customers can't use the toolkit anymore? Qt magically vanishes from their harddrives the moment TT announces that they are bankrupt?

Things are just too transient in the Linux community to rely on another company in this manner.

Then go ahead and fork Qt. Then you do not rely on TT anymore. You do know that since it GPL'ed, you can do just that?

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:33 pm

Ari Rahikkala wrote:I'm lazy :p. No, really, when you think of it... sure, the KDE folks might have made the environment look decent by default but didn't. I guess it is forgivable since you can configure all the crap out of it...

Well, some people like the default color-scheme, while others do not. Others want dark colors, others want lighter colors. There are thousands of KDE-users, they can't please everyone. The default scheme might not be suitable for you, but it is suitable for lots of other folks.

If you want to talk about crappy default colorscheme, then look at Windows XP....

TheWave · Post by **TheWave** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:01 pm

hmm
use both
more kde
but it hard to run gnome utill's on kde (aka xchat xmms gimp ...)
so i install both of them
but for old computer's
i allway's try XFCE4

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:31 pm

TheWave wrote:hmm
use both
more kde
but it hard to run gnome utill's on kde (aka xchat xmms gimp ...)

No, it's not hard at all. You run them like you would normally run them. And besides, XMMS for example is not a Gnome-app. Just because app uses Gtk does not make it a Gnome-app.

shm · Post by **shm** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:00 pm

Ari Rahikkala wrote: I'm lazy :p. No, really, when you think of it... sure, the KDE folks might have made the environment look decent by default but didn't. I guess it is forgivable since you can configure all the crap out of it...

The KDE team made their defaults pretty much be appealing to anybody who likes XP. Which is fine, I guess it appeals to the most users (e.g, most Windows users).. I don't really like it (in fact, I really HATE keramik almost as much as I hate luna)

Oh the other hand, Plastik is being included with KDE 3.2, and Plastik is an absolute joy to work with, especially the version in CVS. It isn't VERY flat, and it isn't VERY flashy, but is a pretty good combination of the two.

shm · Post by **shm** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:19 pm

petrjanda wrote:Can anyone who runs KDE 3.2 alpha post screenshots of Konqueror? Id like to see how much the thing changed.
Thanx

Hmm.. I'm running a pretty recent CVS copy of KDE.. what's gonna become KDE 3.2 beta1 this week

Here are a few pretty __basic__ screenshots of konqi 3.2..

(sorry if the fonts look like shit.. I just got a lcd and am still messing with stuff =) )

http://128.61.66.137/set3.jpg
http://128.61.66.137/set5.jpg

I guess the main thing to notice is the new mozilla-like tabs (which support moving around, tab highlighting, putting the close buttons ON the tabs or having a seperate close button, tabs dynamically changing size to fit like in moz, etc...), and cleaned up context menus.. pretty much the things that people were complaing about KDE 3.1. Oh yeah, there is the new version of the Crystal icons, which are all in SVG now. I actually LOVE the new crystal icons. I couldn't stand Crystal back in KDE 3.1.

Verteron · Post by **Verteron** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:57 pm

Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:But the point is this; competition makes business. Why should I pay Trolltech when I can create GTK, Motif, Windows, Mac OS X or Java closed source commercial applications for nothing?
Because Qt offers improvements not available on those platforms

Name one.

Say Trolltech go bust, stop producing QT. KDE will survive because it's GPL'd. But what about commercial developers? They can no-longer use the QT toolkit so their products and profits are ruined.
Uh, no. In case developement of GPL'ed Qt stops, it gets re-licensed under the BSD-license. And why couldn't the companies keep on using older version of Qt? Or do you assume that if TT goes bust, their customers can't use the toolkit anymore? Qt magically vanishes from their harddrives the moment TT announces that they are bankrupt?

What? Where's this BSD-style clause? I thought the only thing that Trolltech promised to keep available was GPL'd version via the KDE Foundation. Also, a commercial product is useless without updates. It won't vanish from hard disks, but as soon as Microsoft or Apple release their next API-of-the-month, the toolkit stops working.

Things are just too transient in the Linux community to rely on another company in this manner.
Then go ahead and fork Qt. Then you do not rely on TT anymore. You do know that since it GPL'ed, you can do just that?

Erm, forking the GPL'd QT means I have to keep it licensed under the GPL. Therefore it's kinda useless for commercial closed source development, dontcha think? Forking can't change the license clauses.

shm · Post by **shm** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:26 pm

Verteron wrote: What? Where's this BSD-style clause? I thought the only thing that Trolltech promised to keep available was GPL'd version via the KDE Foundation. Also, a commercial product is useless without updates. It won't vanish from hard disks, but as soon as Microsoft or Apple release their next API-of-the-month, the toolkit stops working.

It wasn't a promise, it was a contract. Huge difference, don't ya think

- If the opensource version of Qt stops getting updated, it'll automatically become BSD licensed.
- If TrollTech gets bought out by another company, and they stop releasing a free version of Qt, it'll automatically become BSD licensed.
- If something else weird happens, then the co-signees of the agreement can automatically BSD-license Qt. There were four signees (two KDE developers and two TrollTech employees).. If there is a tie, the KDE developers automatically win. The KDE e.V can switch who gets to vote too.

Evangelion · Post by **Evangelion** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:45 am

Verteron wrote:
Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:But the point is this; competition makes business. Why should I pay Trolltech when I can create GTK, Motif, Windows, Mac OS X or Java closed source commercial applications for nothing?
Because Qt offers improvements not available on those platforms
Name one.

True cross-platform (Linux, Windows, Mac, *BSD, embedded). And it's really well thought-out and clean.

What? Where's this BSD-style clause?

right here.

I thought the only thing that Trolltech promised to keep available was GPL'd version via the KDE Foundation.

Close, but no cigar. they promised to have a FREE (as in freedom) version of Qt available forever. And as the link said, in case of a catastrophy (buyout etc.) Qt gets re-licenced under a BSD-style license. Which means that EVERYONE will be able to use it for free!

Also, a commercial product is useless without updates.

Is there something preventing open-source community from providing those updates? It seems to work for Gtk, why not Qt?

Erm, forking the GPL'd QT means I have to keep it licensed under the GPL.

yeah, isn't GPL sucky? In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. If you fork Gtk, you have to keep it under GPL as well. Yet I don't see you whine about that.

This is now second time I have shot down your FUD about KDE, TT and Qt. Will you give it a rest already?

J.M.I.T. · Post by **J.M.I.T.** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:51 pm

Qball wrote: This type's of threads lead to nothing constructive anyway.

I second that... Sometimes I really think you guys get horny when you're flaming like this... It seems to me that you think: "Hmm... now that we've got rid of that evil Microsoft shit we need something new to argue about..." anyway... go on... i'm reading and enjoying...

Verteron · Post by **Verteron** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:56 pm

Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:
Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:But the point is this; competition makes business. Why should I pay Trolltech when I can create GTK, Motif, Windows, Mac OS X or Java closed source commercial applications for nothing?
Because Qt offers improvements not available on those platforms
Name one.
True cross-platform (Linux, Windows, Mac, *BSD, embedded). And it's really well thought-out and clean.

Fair point.

What? Where's this BSD-style clause?
right here.

Close, but no cigar. they promised to have a FREE (as in freedom) version of Qt available forever. And as the link said, in case of a catastrophy (buyout etc.) Qt gets re-licenced under a BSD-style license. Which means that EVERYONE will be able to use it for free!

OK, I didn't know about this. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, a commercial product is useless without updates.
Is there something preventing open-source community from providing those updates? It seems to work for Gtk, why not Qt?

Erm, forking the GPL'd QT means I have to keep it licensed under the GPL.
yeah, isn't GPL sucky? In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. If you fork Gtk, you have to keep it under GPL as well. Yet I don't see you whine about that.

Actually GTK is licensed under the LGPL (a BSD-style license) already, and this is really the heart of my argument.

This is now second time I have shot down your FUD about KDE, TT and Qt. Will you give it a rest already?

I wasn't aware that anyone was shooting anyone down, I just appear to have different opinions to you. KDE is a cool project and has done a lot to enhance the image of open-source software. Just because I don't happen to like it much doesn't mean it isn't an excellent OSS project (and one of the largest apart from the Linux kernel and XFree itself, no doubt). I have just always been nervous about Trolltech since the QT-license days... it will take me a while before this subsides. Personally I'd prefer them out of the picture alltogether and always feel that OSS software should have no overriding commercial interest behind them. In practice this often isn't the case, I myself have two Ximian products installed at the moment, and use OpenOffice.org which has obvious close ties with Sun Systems. I'm not trying to spread FUD, believe me. In fact this thread has cleared up one or two points I wasn't sure about... whenever you try and ask at Slashdot it seems you either get modded down or flamed.

paperwings · Post by **paperwings** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:22 pm

I don't know if anybody's still reading this thread, or if it is at that point where you skip to the end just to add your spout-off without reading the others (not that there's anything wrong with that), but I'm going to add mine anyway.

I don't really like either much. They both swoop in and take over things I had previously configured just the way I liked them. KDE is especially guilty of this. Just run any Athena based app, and you'll see what I mean.

I'd have to say I lean toward Gnome though, because KDE really has that Borg mentality. All will be absorbed into the KDE collective. Resistance is futile. There's a freakin' K* everything. Oh look, KDE 4 added KToiletFlush and KNoseBlow. Before you can get all squirmy and say "but, but, but..." I know Gnome isn't to far behind. Except they are only up to GnoBelch for Gnome 3.0.

kesuari · Post by **kesuari** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:13 pm

I prefer Gnome. It's much simpler, easier to use. I prefer the it-just-works mentality to you-can-configure-the-crap-out-of-it-so-what-do-imperfections-matter? one of KDE. However, I prefer ROX-Filer, so I've turned Nautilus off. I also find Gnome apps look better than KDE ones; there's something about every single KDE theme I've seen that makes it look like it's just a bunch of images pasted together. I also prefer free licences for libraries; I consider the GPL non-free for libraries (this point is not up for arguing so don't bother, I'll ignore you).

Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:
Evangelion wrote:
Verteron wrote:But the point is this; competition makes business. Why should I pay Trolltech when I can create GTK, Motif, Windows, Mac OS X or Java closed source commercial applications for nothing?
Because Qt offers improvements not available on those platforms
Name one.
True cross-platform (Linux, Windows, Mac, *BSD, embedded). And it's really well thought-out and clean.

Really? So if I run a Qt app on Linux, it'll look-and-feel Linuxy, if I run it on Windows, it'll look-and-feel Windowsy, and if I run it under Mac, it'll look-and-feel Macky? Cool!

Erm... but what's this? Opera for Linux is MDI-based (from what I can see, the Mac version is too)? And those filepickers? They're looking very Windowsy. Oh well, Obviously it isn't truely cross-platform.

Not to mention the fact that if a Windows/Mac/GTK-based app is missing a font it expects, they just say ho-hum and uses an alternative font. Not so with Qt-based apps; they like crashing instead. Pity when it means you can't get into the app to change the settings to stop it from crashing.

[If any of this isn't true in all cases, please identify a cross-platform which I can use gratis on my Linux box to see. Thankyou.]

Koon · Post by **Koon** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:52 pm

YAGKT : yet another Gnome/KDE thread

kesuari wrote:I prefer Gnome. It's much simpler, easier to use. I prefer the it-just-works mentality to you-can-configure-the-crap-out-of-it-so-what-do-imperfections-matter? one of KDE.

I think you got it. I don't think one is better than the other, they will appeal to different kind of users. I like my clean Gnome desktop, but I understand KDE people that prefer theirs. It's a really good thing that we have such alternatives (+ *box and all the others DE) in OSS.

Let GoogleFight decide :
http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/comp ... ome&q2=KDE

Gnome is still ahead

-K

Verteron · Post by **Verteron** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:05 am

Koon wrote: Gnome is still ahead

Yeah but how many of those results are sites about garden gnomes?

mmealman · Post by **mmealman** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:32 am

Verteron wrote:
Koon wrote: Gnome is still ahead
Yeah but how many of those results are sites about garden gnomes?

Touche.

zez · Post by **zez** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:35 am

ebrostig wrote:
fca wrote:I use KDE, but only from CVS, mostly because of the apps.
I really like the new Konqueror, Juk is awesome, and Kopete is the best IM client I've ever seen.
Unfortunatly, kopete is totally useless to me since it does not support the use of a proxy with aim.

Erik

I'd just like it to support buddy icons

zhenlin · Post by **zhenlin** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:50 am

mmealman wrote:
Verteron wrote:
Koon wrote: Gnome is still ahead
Yeah but how many of those results are sites about garden gnomes?
Touche.

Google: GNOME -garden
Results: 2,100,000 pages

Mostly non-GNOME matches start at page 73 out of 74

Hmm, where is the googleshare engine?

Reasons you use Gnome over KDE

I like Gnome over KDE because: