Kdeprefix for KDE 4.2: yes or no?

Message

TemplarKnight · Post by **TemplarKnight** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:06 am

Nothing more than xorg.log in kdm.log. Same stuff.

TemplarKnight · Post by **TemplarKnight** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Here is my .xsession-errors

Code: Select all

startkde: Starting up...                                                                                                                                           
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/klauncher                                                                                                    
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/kded4                                                                                                                       
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/kbuildsycoca4                                                                                                               
kbuildsycoca4 running...                                                                                                                                           
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/kbuildsycoca4                                                                                                               
kbuildsycoca4 running...                                                                                                                                           
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/kconf_update                                                                                                 
QDBusObjectPath: invalid path ""                                                                                                                                   
X Error: XSyncBadAlarm 154                                                                                                                                         
  Extension:    144 (Uknown extension)                                                                                                                             
  Minor opcode: 11 (Unknown request)                                                                                                                               
  Resource id:  0x0                                                                                                                                                
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/kcminit_startup                                                                                                             
X Error: XSyncBadAlarm 154                                                                                                                                         
  Extension:    144 (Uknown extension)                                                                                                                             
  Minor opcode: 11 (Unknown request)                                                                                                                               
  Resource id:  0x0                                                                                                                                                
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/ksmserver                                                                                                                   
<unknown program name>(10442)/ KStartupInfo::createNewStartupId: creating:  "chameleon;1245749678;337289;10442_TIME0" : "unnamed app"                              
kephald starting up                                                                                                                                                
XRANDR error base:  162                                                                                                                                            
RRInput mask is set!!                                                                                                                                              
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  60 1280 x 1024                                                                                                           
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  61 1280 x 1024                                                                                                           
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  62 1024 x 768                                                                                                            
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  63 1024 x 768                                                                                                            
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  64 800 x 600                                                                                                             
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  65 800 x 600                                                                                                             
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  66 640 x 480                                                                                                             
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  67 640 x 480                                                                                                             
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding mode:  68 720 x 400                                                                                                             
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding crtc:  57                                                                                                                       
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding crtc:  58                                                                                                                       
RandRScreen::loadSettings - adding output:  59                                                                                                                     
Setting CRTC 57 on output "VGA" (previous 0 )                                                                                                                      
CRTC outputs: (59)                                                                                                                                                 
Output name: "VGA"                                                                                                                                                 
Output refresh rate: 60.0197
Output rect: QRect(0,0 1280x1024)
Output rotation: 1
XRandROutputs::init
got a valid edid block...
vendor code: "FUS"
product id: 1665
serial number: 16843009
  added output  59
adding an output 0 with geom:  QRect(0,0 1280x1024)
adding a disconnected output 1
adding a disconnected output 2
adding a disconnected output 3
output: "SCREEN-0" QRect(0,0 1280x1024) 4522061 true false
output: "SCREEN-1" QRect(0,0 0x0) 0 false false
output: "SCREEN-2" QRect(0,0 0x0) 115 false false
output: "SCREEN-3" QRect(0,0 0x0) 116 true false
load xml
connected: 1
looking for current "SCREEN-0"
known "*" has score: 0.125
screen: 0 QRect(0,0 1280x1024)
looking for a matching configuration...
connected: 1
looking for current "SCREEN-0"
known "*" has score: 0.125
found outputs, known: false
activate external configuration!!
registered the service: true
screens registered on the bus: true
outputs registered on the bus: true
configurations registered on the bus: true
kwin: Fatal IO error: client killed
kdeinit4: sending SIGHUP to children.
klauncher: Exiting on signal 1
Qt-subapplication: Fatal IO error: client killed
kded4: Fatal IO error: client killed
kdeinit4: sending SIGTERM to children.
kdeinit4: Exit.

It appears to be a kwin issue

TemplarKnight · Post by **TemplarKnight** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:47 pm

Problem solved with resync and downgrade mesa. Its this bug

askoff · Post by **askoff** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:30 am

Thanks. Problems solved.

iom · Post by **iom** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:52 am

this kdeprefix issue is incredibly annoying.
someone who uses a computer to do seriuos work and not playing around with gentoo basically has three choices:
1) stop with upgrades of gentoo (kde in particular)
2) unmask -kdeprefix (which is seriously an ugly solution and who knows how long it will work)
3) install some other distro.

personally, i have no intention of chaning kdeprefix to -kdeprefix and end up with a non-working system because there will surely be something which won't be adjusted simply by unmerging & remerging kde + moving ~/.kde4.2 to ~/.kde...
NOT even mentioning other users on this computer who will be surprised the next time they log in -- and see nothing.

thank you whoever thought of this. what a brilliant idea!

iss · Post by **iss** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:15 am

iom wrote:this kdeprefix issue is incredibly annoying.
someone who uses a computer to do seriuos work and not playing around with gentoo basically has three choices:
1) stop with upgrades of gentoo (kde in particular)
2) unmask -kdeprefix (which is seriously an ugly solution and who knows how long it will work)
3) install some other distro.

4) Don't use keyworded packages.
KDE4 is still keyworded. Ebuilds are keyworded because they are not fully tested and/or there are known bugs which can break something.
I think it's not wise to use unstable packages for "serious work".

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:39 pm

When kdeprefix USE flag was added - it was not stated anywhere "hey, enable it, it's new USE flag so it's cool to enable it without reading what is it for!". So now if someone is forced to reemerge whole KDE to migrate to -kdeprefix - he's only to blame. Of course it is Gentoo KDE team fault to publicly release something that is half-baked, but on the other hand it was not marked stable but put in testing (~arch or "keyworded") and its is what 'testing' is for, right? Users are supposed to use stable arch.

hunky · Post by **hunky** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:26 pm

I enjoy checking out the new stuff, so I run ~x86. I also like to check out the new builds of kde as well as keep a good working copy of it going. So I used kdeprefix.

For awhile this seemed to work fairly well. I could keep kde-4.* from portage running while playing with kde-testing builds. I don't think this is possible any longer with the removal of the USE flag from some packages. At least last time I synced kde-testing I got lots of blocks from what seemed like the removal of that flag.

There were a few problems with using kdeprefix. It broke amarok's links to files/playlists, and it broke links in digikam. I was able to find solutions to both with lots of searching around and fiddling with things though I never got themes to work in digikam - but that was not a big enough deal to worry about so never pursued it.

With what appeared to be the disabling or removal of the kdeprefix flag I figured I had had enough. Problems with using kde-testing kept mounting (having to start using qting-edge overlay, not much help in the forum thread, constant emerge problems even if little ones) so I figured it was time to find another hobby and I got rid of kde-testing, all of kde4, and re-emerged with kde-4.2.4 with -kdeprefix and am moving on with other things.

I could always fire up another computer to try kde-testing, or maybe in a VM, but I think that is a bit too much effort to ever get off my duff to do. I was never sure I was a good target audience for kde-testing anyway as my level of skill is none too high, but figured they might benefit from that demographic in some way. Each of us has our own tolerances, passions, and reasons for doing things.

[edit] It would seem that a good (for me anyway) solution to get away from kdeprefix would be to keep kde4.2 from portage in its place but put the kde4.3 testing builds (currently named like 4.2.91 or so) in its own place like ~/.kde4.3beta or whatever. But as this would have to probably come from way upstream, I doubt it is possible. Other reasons I probably don't know about may make it impossible as well.

energyman76b · Post by **energyman76b** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:27 pm

except that kdeprefix did not introduce new funtionality!

It preserved the old and sane behaviour:
one slot&directory for ever major kde version.

A lot of people like to have several kde's installed in parallel. With the old way and kdeprefix, that was easy. Then came the pykde mess (why not slot that bastard too?) and suddenly a very important feature was removed.

That sucks. It makes testing kde a lot harder. You can not have kde 4.2.4, 4.3 beta and svn installed at the same time. with 4.2.4 as fallback for the other two.

So don't act with that 'holier than thou' attitude. People like me set that flag because they needed that feature that was suddenly 'stolen' from them - for nothing.

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:55 am

Then you're more of a tester and you're ready to pick up the pieces when something breaks - so you can unmask kdeprefix.
The point is average user isn't ready.
kdeprefix shouldn't have appeared unmasked in first place (and it appeared in *very* bad shape) - so we're just cleaning the mess.

pykde4 cannot be properly SLOTted (actually it is SLOTted already, it's just broken) - it would be either eselect or something like this. We'll fix SLOT to "4" probably for any pykde4 ebuilds in a future.

Cyberwizzard · Post by **Cyberwizzard** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:40 am

Slotted, broken or whatever - introducing a mask on a keyword on a desktop environment which is used widely without any warnings is a big mistake. I just snuffed my laptop because I didn't look close enough on the emerge -avu @ world command before heading out.

@iss:
KDE4 is still keyworded. Ebuilds are keyworded because they are not fully tested and/or there are known bugs which can break something.
I think it's not wise to use unstable packages for "serious work".

Bullshit. Distro's like Ubuntu have KDE4 for ages and have stable desktops just like I had with KDE4 on Gentoo. If Gentoo seriously has issues getting KDE4 to work, it is time I moved on to a new distribution. I chose Gentoo to be bleeding edge and have full control on my computer: getting forced to use old packages for the sake of a stable desktop that even in pre-packaged distros have been replaced is plain stupid. Also throwing in a use flag mask 'because it was a bad idea in the first place' is just not done.

This use flag affects all desktop systems running KDE on Gentoo. Not just the most bleeding edge version of KDE 4 but every version. Packaged programs are no longer usable if the kdeprefix flag changed and users who have no clue what it is for will snuff their system. And don't give me the 'just reinstall KDE' crap - I have done the conversion from kdeprefix to -kdeprefix before and just like the numerous posts in here of people having trouble logging in, restoring their data or just being unable to fix KDE, I have been there too.

Now if you will excuse me, I will have to call work to explain that I need a few more hours to fix my computer before I can resume work because some idiot working on a project called Gentoo just 'fixed' a potential problem on my computer and wrecked my desktop while doing it. Email you say? Yeah, that will work in an hour or so again as well - I hope.... (In case the tone here is not obvious, I am quite angry).

energyman76b · Post by **energyman76b** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:44 am

snuffed system? all you have to do is copying your .kde4.X dir to .kde.4 - cp -a will do that for you. oh, and instead of kdm-live/4.3/4.2 it's just kdm now.

I didn't had problems with breakage. I am just pissed that I lost the ability to easily have several kde's installed in parallel.

Cyberwizzard · Post by **Cyberwizzard** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:54 am

energyman76b wrote:snuffed system? all you have to do is copying your .kde4.X dir to .kde.4 - cp -a will do that for you. oh, and instead of kdm-live/4.3/4.2 it's just kdm now.

I didn't had problems with breakage. I am just pissed that I lost the ability to easily have several kde's installed in parallel.

The parallel thing was extra but I used it to test the new KDE versions. With snuffed I mean that I tried reinstalling all the packages and I missed one or it got reinstalled improperly and as a result a lot of programs didn't work. On my laptop I am now sticking with -kdeprefix as KDE base already has it - the only problem is figuring out which packages did not get recompiled this morning and manually compiling those...

energyman76b · Post by **energyman76b** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:44 pm

Cyberwizzard wrote:
energyman76b wrote:snuffed system? all you have to do is copying your .kde4.X dir to .kde.4 - cp -a will do that for you. oh, and instead of kdm-live/4.3/4.2 it's just kdm now.

I didn't had problems with breakage. I am just pissed that I lost the ability to easily have several kde's installed in parallel.
The parallel thing was extra but I used it to test the new KDE versions. With snuffed I mean that I tried reinstalling all the packages and I missed one or it got reinstalled improperly and as a result a lot of programs didn't work. On my laptop I am now sticking with -kdeprefix as KDE base already has it - the only problem is figuring out which packages did not get recompiled this morning and manually compiling those...

ls -lhtr in /var/db/pkg/kde-base can help you with that

<3 · Post by <3 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:47 pm

Sigh I am having this kdeprefix issue as well. I first used it in KDE-4.1 because for some reason when I emerged KDE-4.1 with the -kdeprefix kde-3.5 would start with plasma and other kde 4.1 apps loaded (not sure why it did this all I know is when I re-emerged with +kdeprefix all was well). These days I don't use kde-3.5 anymore so I guess I could uninstall it and re-emerge kde-4.2.x with the -kdeprefix flag it's just a huge pain in the neck.

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:23 am

Cyberwizzard wrote: Now if you will excuse me, I will have to call work to explain that I need a few more hours to fix my computer before I can resume work because some idiot working on a project called Gentoo just 'fixed' a potential problem on my computer and wrecked my desktop while doing it.

Great! Welcome to the Gentoo KDE Team then!
Of course if you have patches already, don't forget to send them!

(kdeprefix causes not potential, but real problems - read sticky thread in first place or think before opening your mouth please. You could as well pay us for our hard work so that you can have any rights to be complaining)
If uncertain, read http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-58 ... ml#5824358

Oh, and for everyone else not reading FAQ apparently:

kdeprefix is not required to have KDE3 (3.5.10) and KDE4 (any, but just one 4.x release) installed

tampakrap · Post by **tampakrap** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:55 am

I've totally updated the Gentoo KDE Guide

aceFruchtsaft · Post by **aceFruchtsaft** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:11 am

reavertm wrote:kdeprefix is not required to have KDE3 (3.5.10) and KDE4 (any, but just one 4.x release) installed

Actually, that does not seem to be entirely true. With +prefix, KDE 3.5 was perfectly isolated from KDE 4.x and everything worked.
However, after unmerging all of kde-4.2[+prefix] and emerging it with -prefix, some things in my KDE 3.5 were broken (e.g. konqueror 3.5 tried to display the start page from konqueror 4.2 and the toolbar in konqueror 3.5 was completely fucked up). Just weird.

Now I've completely eliminated KDE 4.2.x from my machine and will install it only when I'm ready to ditch KDE 3.5.

BTW I totally agree with energyman76b: +prefix is actually the behavior I'd want from KDE. I won't switch to a new KDE version without testing it, but how am I supposed to test it if I cannot install KDE 4.x and 4.(x+1) on the same machine?

binro · Post by **binro** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:18 pm

I agree with the previous post. Having KDE4 under /usr and KDE 3.5 under /usr/kde/3.5 definitely degrades the 3.5 system. Missing menus, toolbars and strange kdesu behaviour were some of the thing I found. I think this is at least partially to do with the fact that some 3.5 packages install under /usr although the ebuild thinks it is installing to /usr/kde/3.5. I noticed this with apps I developed myself with KDevelop; something to do with the Makefiles I suspect. Using +kdeprefix solved this for me. I worry that if I install KDE 4.3 to /usr I will encounter problems if I don't completely remove KDE 3.5.10 first, and I am not yet (quite) ready to do that.

HTH

Cyberwizzard · Post by **Cyberwizzard** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:34 pm

reavertm wrote:
Cyberwizzard wrote: Now if you will excuse me, I will have to call work to explain that I need a few more hours to fix my computer before I can resume work because some idiot working on a project called Gentoo just 'fixed' a potential problem on my computer and wrecked my desktop while doing it.
Great! Welcome to the Gentoo KDE Team then!
Of course if you have patches already, don't forget to send them!

I'd like to think of myself as a moderately active user who doesn't mind hunting down bugs and fixing things where I can where time and skills permit me to. I've sent patches and reports previously upstream so I'm familiar with the whole open idea here and I did not meant to disrespect anyone who is working on KDE/Gentoo here.

reavertm wrote:(kdeprefix causes not potential, but real problems - read sticky thread in first place or think before opening your mouth please. You could as well pay us for our hard work so that you can have any rights to be complaining)

I have a right to complain as a user in general, if not for the users/community, there would be no Gentoo in the first place. If the emerge would have blocked with a big fat warning telling me that the kdeprefix flag had changed on this, this and this ebuild and that is a very bad idea (unless you are recompiling the whole system in which case you should unmerge before emerging as libraries might be linked to the wrong files during the rebuild) - it would have been my own fault for not reading the warning.

If you use a system which has worked for years (slotted and all) and suddenly without warning the whole use flag is masked resulting in a involuntary move to the (Gentoo) desired situation to resolve weird problems with the whole slotted thing, I think all these people like me were wondering what the heck was going on.

And as an illustration, if this actually was payed software development like you suggested, you just gave cause to a damage claim because of the lack of proper warning.

But I'll stop complaining, I'll make sure in the future to carefully review and use flag changes that did not came from me and let others on this forum voice the same complaints I had with this whole thing.

On a side note, there are warnings now when you emerge using the kdeprefix flag about the issues you are talking about. I have never actually encountered any of the problems myself and I heard things about PyKDE being broken but I don't seem to be using it so I wouldn't know. The bug list here: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=239356 shows that all but one problem has been resolved for KDE 4.1...

energyman76b wrote:ls -lhtr in /var/db/pkg/kde-base can help you with that

Cheers for that one

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:44 am

In 'proprietary' or 'commercial' environment nobody sane would throw untested (with known issues) features at users. In Gentoo, it was done (but with 'testing' KEYWORDS, so not really production environment) by developers working on first official KDE4 Gentoo ebuilds. It was hell of a work and it's quite understandable that not everything has been tested at that point - anyway - kdeprefix was available from the beginning in KDE overlay.

Then other people joined the project (including me), and they started to fix ebuilds and eclasses and incrementally fix more and more newly discovered kdeprefix issues (search Gentoo bugzilla - most of KDE build issues are from 4.1 era).

Then, not that long ago, blocker issues appeared after moving kde-misc packages to /usr - it appeared that Qt4 itself is not really ready yet for multiple KDE installations using it (plugin loader), and considering some other issues like with PyKDE4 (cannot be SLOTted and there's no way to use switch at runtime automatically between versions) and digikam (pulling libkipi-${KDE_MINIMAL} from other KDE prefix because there's no way to specify SLOT deps in such case) - we decided that kdeprefix needs to go - and the sooner we do it - the better it's for users.

Personally, kdeprefix was always no go for me considering state it was at that time (and I was actually the one, who later invested the most time to have it fixed, ironically..), so sorry for inconvenience, but that's the way to go.

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:49 am

binro wrote:I agree with the previous post. Having KDE4 under /usr and KDE 3.5 under /usr/kde/3.5 definitely degrades the 3.5 system. Missing menus, toolbars and strange kdesu behaviour were some of the thing I found. I think this is at least partially to do with the fact that some 3.5 packages install under /usr although the ebuild thinks it is installing to /usr/kde/3.5. I noticed this with apps I developed myself with KDevelop; something to do with the Makefiles I suspect. Using +kdeprefix solved this for me. I worry that if I install KDE 4.3 to /usr I will encounter problems if I don't completely remove KDE 3.5.10 first, and I am not yet (quite) ready to do that.
HTH

Please file a bug (or maybe there's existing one) - this should not happen (and actually didn't happen for me last time I checked in my chroot).
Also having some mess in .bashrc (like source /etc/profile, some PATH overrides) is crucial as it breaks many things in spontaneous manner.

edit
Just checked, installed kdebase-meta:3.5 and then installed @kdebase-4.3 to /usr
As expected - no missing menus, no missing toolbars, valid kdesu behaviour.
You certainly have messed up installation, apparently wrong kdeglobals file (the one for KDE 3.5), pointing to /usr.

binro · Post by **binro** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:16 pm

reavertm wrote: You certainly have messed up installation, apparently wrong kdeglobals file (the one for KDE 3.5), pointing to /usr.

I just install your ebuilds, mate.

I have seen the problem on two systems I have and similar reports from other people. The point is: the problem exists, I don't know why. The kdeprefix option just seems more elegant to me. FWIW.

reavertm · Post by **reavertm** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:48 pm

The point is, kdeglobals file is in CONFIG_PROTECT area, so you'll need to run etc-update after emerge and resolve it properly (in this case replacing old file with new one) - just using ebuilds is not enough here.

sgao · Post by **sgao** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:36 pm

With "-kdeprefix", scim-pinyin and scim-tables failed to compile. To compile these two packages, one has to use "kdeprefix" for now.