BSD/Gentoo talking points?

Message

Jkay · Post by **Jkay** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:23 am

Hi,

Some people have been asking me about Gentoo lately, but every time I point out this or that, a few BSD power users chime in out of some kind of Linux flavor pissing contest attitude, and talk us down.

Since I come in here from RedHat, I have never used BSD and dont have a single clue regarding comparative strengths so I have no way to counter-point their pro-bsd arguments with comparable pro-gentoo arguments.

Even a couple would be appreciated

thanks -

FormerSlacker · Post by **FormerSlacker** » Thu May 22, 2003 9:35 am

I'd be curious to read their "pro bsd" propaganda

What are some of their points?

Off the top of my head, some pros of linux/gentoo are:
*** Geared towards workstation use, but still more then capible to be used in a server role.
*** Better hardware/vendor support
*** Games

*** This website itself. It's such a great resource for gentoo users. I've really seen no other like it.
*** Friendly (for the most part) developers and users. BSD users genreally aren't kind to newbies, or is it noob/n00b/newb/nub. I can't keep track

Just to list a few.

Post by **pjp** » Thu May 22, 2003 4:18 pm

Moved from Other Things Gentoo.

paranode · Post by **paranode** » Thu May 22, 2003 4:28 pm

Yeah BSDs are cool for servers I guess. But if you want a computer with any modern software you have to do it all yourself with BSD. Their Ports systems are usually way outdated with really old versions. So for a desktop machine there's really no comparison because there's WAY more software that's supported on Linux and getting normal stuff to work on BSDs usually takes a while after it has been working on Linux.

Lycander · Post by **Lycander** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:56 pm

As geeky as Gentoo may be for a distro, I have found it to be far easier to install and configure as oppose to FreeBSD. I even bought a book on FreeBSD and had problems. With Gentoo I'm working with a print out of the skimpy web-based install instructions. How's that for comparison?

mabouya · Post by **mabouya** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:14 pm

I've seen some Gentoo Bashing going on into bsdforums.org
As often, it came from people too lazy to really discover something new and its pros... Well... Honestly, I find eveything in Gentoo is much more straight forward. The customization level is higher than anywhere else, and I generaly find Linux more user friendly than BSD's... Anyway, i must admit I only used NetBSD so far...

Of course, as far as I know, I'm not yet omniscient, and therefore, all this is only personal taste. Anyway, BSD advocates are often very narrow-minded, what's more, they tend to see GNU/Linux as 'too much user-friendly'... The BSDLeet way

They spit at nOObs, and the F in their RTFM really means Fucking... Anyway, those systems really feel mature and damn stable, and contrary to what some ppl say, their port tree is not so outdated...

So, why using GNU/Linux (Gentoo of course) and not BSD? Well... to me, it's because I love the whole idea of the GNU Project. But still... Personal opinions...

PS : they do have reverse dependancies though

PS²: anyone could teach me an alternative to the 'anyway' word?

d3c3it · Post by **d3c3it** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:54 pm

ditto and from debian users. ive not a clue about bsd all i know is my friend uses it because he wanted to be more geeky lol i also came from redhat gentoo seems to get alot of praise and alot of critism from alot of places.
is it true freebsd is really pissy about newer hardware?more so than linux?

gzipped · Post by **gzipped** » Thu May 22, 2003 11:32 pm

heh try to configure kernel on freebsd and you'll se e how nice it is. maybe there are some utils but in general with linux kernel you get menuconfig which i find very nice but with freebsd you get something like XF86config which is linear answering of questions or even editing scripts by hand. it's ok if it is a server you don't need to do that often, well but workstation it simply matter of convenience and using your time efficiently.

also dunno about freebsd but on openbsd(not like 100% sure) but if you want newest jvm(like 1.4) you will have to use it through linux emulation.

so just ask why are they using linux emulation and bashing linux around.

thanks god that at lesat hardware accelerated drivers came around to bsd.
but in general driver support sux.

so for server ok but try to do anything else and you stuck.

guero61 · Post by **guero61** » Thu May 22, 2003 11:40 pm

mabouya wrote: PS²: anyone could teach me an alternative to the 'anyway' word?

There isn't just a whole lot else to say, but http://dictionary.reference.com and http://thesaurus.reference.com are great resources...

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=anyway

mezz · Post by **mezz** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:37 am

mabouya wrote:Of course, as far as I know, I'm not yet omniscient, and therefore, all this is only personal taste. Anyway, BSD advocates are often very narrow-minded, what's more, they tend to see GNU/Linux as 'too much user-friendly'... The BSDLeet way

I think, BSD is easier than Linux...

pizen · Post by **pizen** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:29 pm

I really like both Linux and BSD. I use Gentoo on my desktop and laptop but BSD on everything else. Some things I like about BSD are that it runs on everything...this is nice for Playstation webservers (NetBSD)...and can be secure by default (OpenBSD). I used OpenBSD on my multimedia server because I was installing without a net connection on a slow box and OpenBSD supported my SBLive out of the box. However, Linux has a little bit better software for my desktop needs (both support my TV card but Linux has nicer software). I also like the BSD License over the GPL (what I am most interested in with the OSS I write is making sure I get credit...if I write something spectacular and someone takes it and uses it in commercial product I'm cool with that...so long as I get credit).

allucid · Post by **allucid** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:14 am

linux and the bsd are two very different creatures. my experience with freeBSD is limited. however, i would like to remind everyone to not do the same thing that some of you are (rightfully) accusing everyone else of with gentoo; do not bash BSD until you try it.

Lycander · Post by **Lycander** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:03 am

gzipped wrote:but with freebsd you get something like XF86config

Are you sure you're not thinking about something else? Cause I've used that in a few Linux distros already.

Naughtyus · Post by **Naughtyus** » Sat May 24, 2003 8:12 am

He was talking about the style of the kernel configuration - which compares with XF86Config in linux, not to menuconfig.

longodj · Post by **longodj** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:41 pm

To be honest I am REALLY sick of all these flame wars between Gentoo and BSD. We all know BSD's kernel is insanely easy to use. Then again we all also know that BSD's ports system is a load of garbage compared to portage. Therefore, insead of bashing each other, why can't Gentoo and BSD help each other grow, why can't there be a Gentoo/BSD flavor. I mean, how stupid is it to hear all these people like, "FreeBSD is the one, only, and best OS out there, nothing better, all those other ones are just trash." Honesltly, no it's not, as paranode said, BSD is great for servers, but if you want to do anything in a desktop environment it's a royal pain. I'm learning java and I just installed FreeBSD 5.1 on my laptop. J2SDK 1.4.2_01 took one night of me typing emerge sun-j2sdk in gentoo, and it works flawlessly. On BSD I am still trying to get it to work correctly, i still have to go to the home dir, and I miss java-config. Anyway, basically what I'm saying is that these flame wars should really end. Instead of fighting, build, code, innovate.

gsfgf · Post by **gsfgf** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:35 pm

gentooo = bsd + better desktop support (drivers/games)
:.
gentoo > bsd > other linux distros

gsfgf · Post by **gsfgf** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:56 pm

NHSandman05 wrote: Then again we all also know that BSD's ports system is a load of garbage compared to portage.

why can't there be a Gentoo/BSD flavor.

Many BSDers would take exception. While i think portage is better, ports is not bad at all.

Gentoo is really portage + gentoo init. I tried to port init an found that it will have to be majorly rewritten for BSD.

zez · Post by **zez** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:22 pm

If someone has tried Gentoo and found that they did not like it, that's fine. If they are bashing Gentoo with no basis, they're only depriving themselves of this great distro

Gentoo has so many existing users along with the constant flow of new users, plus I don't think many of us here will be easily convinced to leave Gentoo behind. I couldn't be happier. Let them continue to shoot their mouths off. There will always be a few.

I tried FreeBSD a little, but (obviously) didn't find it as well suited for desktop use as Gentoo is. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to run around yelling "FreeBSD sucks!" either.

kesuari · Post by **kesuari** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:11 pm

gzipped wrote:heh try to configure kernel on freebsd and you'll se e how nice it is. maybe there are some utils but in general with linux kernel you get menuconfig which i find very nice but with freebsd you get something like XF86config which is linear answering of questions or even editing scripts by hand. it's ok if it is a server you don't need to do that often, well but workstation it simply matter of convenience and using your time efficiently.

(I never realised there was an XF86config-like kernel configurator for FreeBSD, so my comment is focused towards the manually editing files option.)

Manually editting the files is no less convenient than menuconfig. Everything's provided---check the LINT file. If you start with LINT and delete everything you don't want, it's essentially the same as using make menuconfig, with the added bonus of help being right there: you don't need to manually chose the help option. You can also use text editor's powerful search functions. All in all, it's much more convenient and time efficient than make menuconfig.

(Disclaimer: I'm an unsatisfied Gentoo user thinking of trying Debian; FreeBSD doesn't support my network card.)

Seoushi · Post by **Seoushi** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:10 pm

If you really want pros and cons. then try both of them out. Don't rely on others to tell you what is good and whats not, heck you might even like freebsd. Personaly I'm migrating away from gentoo because I hate compiling everything and my notorious video goes white problem which I tried to fix for 2 weeks or so.

Recently I've given a bunch of things a new look (linuxes (sp?) and bsds) and unlike most people think freebsd is just as good as a desktop as linux natively without linux emulation binaries.As for freebsd users bashing gentoo, can you say that your not tring to do the same or haven't heard bashing from within these forums? Every community has people that follow loyaly and bash everything that doesn't have to do with it.

All I'm trying to say here is give other things a chance and see what you like and make your own argument/decision.

(note: I don't use a freebsd I was just clarifying a myth alot of people seem to use)

Vancouverite · Post by **Vancouverite** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:41 am

I've heard all of the same tired old arguments that the BSD die hards spout. I use the BSD's and Linux and like them all but IMO FreeBSD cannot compete on the desktop with Linux. Linux has mature features that the BSD's lack. The most common pro for BSD I've heard is that it's an OS and not "just a kernel"; this is nice but doesn't affect performance at all. Try them and see what you think. OTOH Linux (and especially Microsoft die hards) annoy the hell out of me also.

regeya · Post by **regeya** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:03 pm

gzipped wrote:heh try to configure kernel on freebsd and you'll se e how nice it is. maybe there are some utils but in general with linux kernel you get menuconfig

One of the arguments I've seen against Linux from BSD zealots is that Linux has an interactive kernel config. Weird, man, weird...

I used FreeBSD for a while, and while BSDers talk a mean game about how their systems are stable and consistent, I was surprised at how many times I had to start anew on my kernel config, rearrange, etc. when minor releases came out.

Now as far as Portage vs. Ports go, I'm so torn. There are things that I think each system does better than the other.

Forgive my FreeBSD slant; the only BSD I've actively used is FreeBSD, and OS X doesn't even count as a BSD. ;-D

mezz · Post by **mezz** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:40 pm

regeya wrote:I used FreeBSD for a while, and while BSDers talk a mean game about how their systems are stable and consistent, I was surprised at how many times I had to start anew on my kernel config, rearrange, etc. when minor releases came out.

What? I use the very same kernel config since 4.3 to 4.9-pre, no change, but small change on 5.x. Perhaps, you never copy and rename to your own name of kernel config like from GENERIC to YOURKERNEL? I will be surpise if you don't do that, because CVSup will overwrite the GENERIC. The /usr/src/UPDATING will note if you need to add a new option in the kernel config.

Note: The FreeBSD handbook explains why you should copy and rename the kernel config.

BSD/Gentoo talking points?

BSD/Gentoo talking points?

GAH!

Re: GAH!

On FreeBSD's kernel config

Re: On FreeBSD's kernel config