Anyone using a Pro Audio set up with Gentoo?

Message

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:05 am

I am back again. This time I am looking for tips, ideas for setting up a pro audio workstation with Gentoo. I don't need specific help with apps (I am familiar with most linux audio stuff, and use JAD on my main machine). Just ideas on how to really get the most out of my system. I have a 1 Ghz, 512mb ram Dell Dimension. No powerhouse, but I have seem smaller machines get good performance when set up right. If anyone else is doing soething like this, could you please give me some info on your set-up, and maybe a tip or two?

Thanks!

Coltie · Post by **Coltie** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:55 pm

Did you already look around the pro-audio overlay and the related mailing list?

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:37 am

Yes. I know where to get the software, and I have all the overlay's docs, wiki, etc. I was just wanting to hear of any pro audio setups that Gentoo users are running. I know of at least one guy in California who's Gentoo studio set up was featured in a 2004 issue of Sound on Sound. So I was just looking for other people who might be doing something similar.

sonicbhoc · Post by **sonicbhoc** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:40 am

I hooked my junky little casio keyboard to my computer once. Nothing special. I didn't have time to make anything.

Coltie · Post by **Coltie** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:20 pm

davejk wrote:So I was just looking for other people who might be doing something similar.

Ok... Then I have a "cheap" home studio... which does work perfectly for what I need... but it's definetly not a "pro"-studio (even though the question of what a pro studio is relevant in this topic

)

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:50 pm

I only meant pro audio as in "non consumer" audio, i.e. recording and playback, etc. Nothing professional was meant!

In fact, I use a junkie Casio keyboard too!

Anyone else?

hunky · Post by **hunky** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:26 pm

I've got a M-Audio Delta 66 sound card with breakout box on a self-built computer with a Allen and Heath Mix-Wizard analog mixing board, good studio monitors (M-Audio BX8A), Audio Technica 4033 microphone as well as a contingent of Shure 58s and 57s, and a couple Rhode NT-3 condensers. Using Ardour with Qjackctl I recorded our old-time band and made a cd - but I would like to remaster it now that I know a little bit more. Have Jamin loaded but haven't used it yet. My problem is finding time to learn these great programs. (So I can't offer any advice).

Just recompiled Ardour 2.4 last night and haven't had time to fire it up to see if it runs - it was a "downgrade" from 2.9999 (how many nines?) I had from the pro-audio overlay. This time I added VST support but haven't, as I've said, played yet with any of those plug-ins. I also use audacity for some wav editing.

Oh, and though I'm usually in KDE, I pop into FVWM for "serious" recording. And to show I'm not a pro - I still haven't gotten the real-time patch going with my kernel - which I'm still on 2.6.19.

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:25 pm

I also wouldn't call my setup professional by any means, however, I have managed to record and produce ten CD's. The computer has evolved over the years, beginning as a Pentium 233 MMX with 32 Megs of RAM, and now coming back as a Core2 Duo with 2 Gigs (soon to be four). And while they were done with Windoze and Cool Edit Pro, the results I achieved were fantastic.

The system didn't really "get there" until I got an M-Audio delta series sound card and associated mix head. That card is just incredible! The recordings done with that card sound like they came off the record store shelves. I heartily recommend M-Audio products.

In the long, long ago, when I was using Slackware, I tried to set up ardour. Goddess, what a pain in the ass! I tracked down every dependency, and every dependency's dependency, and finally got it to install, only to have jack crash continuously. I eventually decided I'd try it with Gentoo.

What a difference. Ardour installed without a problem, and so did jack. Once I found qjackctl, I found the holy grail of Linux recording. For the first time, I had ardour up, running, and working without slowing down the speed of the recording, or sounding like a helicopter eating a harp.

Just last night, I finally ground a mixdown out of ardour. After playing with it and reading the scant "manual", I finally have it to a place where I at least know how to do the basics. The fancy play will come in later, I'm sure.

I can't wait to start playing with recording tracks with ardour. That's sure to be "fun".

Blessed be!
Pappy

thepustule · Post by **thepustule** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:33 pm

It's actually encouraging to hear about some people actually using gentoo for "pro" audio. I tried it a couple times but only managed to get jack locking my machine up. It got even worse when I tried the real-time kernel patches. I wanted to use rosegarden with my Korg, but couldn't get too far with it either because of all the lockups. I decided to abandon gentoo on this computer and go to a fedora-based music distro (forget which one) which also caused problems.

This has lit my fire again - maybe I should start with the m-audio hardware setup first and build from there. Any idea which one would be best?

<wanders away with a grin and an evil laugh>

charliepoole · Post by **charliepoole** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:41 pm

best m-audio setup? hmm - really depends what you need. I'm thinking of upgrading my Delta 66 to something with the analog/digital converters outside the computer as I've been concerned with the "noise" that can happen in all them computer electronics. But that might not really be necessary unless really going pro.

dweigert · Post by **dweigert** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:41 am

You can get decent prices on RME Hammerfall DSP gear on Ebay. I've been considering this, for a machine I plan to build for dedicated audio. Alsa supports the RME line, for the most part.

Dan

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:34 am

thepustule wrote:This has lit my fire again - maybe I should start with the m-audio hardware setup first and build from there. Any idea which one would be best?

<wanders away with a grin and an evil laugh>

That's a question you have to answer yourself. To figure out the answer, you need to think about the absolute minimum number of inputs you will need. If you're doing your own thing without a band, you could get away with the 24/96. It has two analog inputs, and two digital for use with external A/D, D/A converters. The Delta 66 has four analog inputs and two digital. The 1010 and 1010LT have eight analog inputs/outputs, and to channels ala SPDIF. It is reputed to support MIDI, but I don't know if it does so under Linux.

As far as noise from the computer getting into your work, I have yet to have that be a problem. Of course, I still have CEP which has a lovely set of noise-cancellation algorithms, so noise isn't a problem. Besides, in tests, the M-Audio PCI cards have incredibly low noise floors, like in the -100 dB range. Even if you aren't planning on recording the London Philharmonic, you still get amazingly wondrous sound from M-Audio cards.

Hope that helps the decision process.

Blessed be!
Pappy

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:17 pm

Ah, after hanging around the Jacklab forum (where nobody talks much) it's nice to hear some discussion!
I too am using a M-Audio Delta card (44, same as 66 but without the digital i/o. I am hoping to upgrade to a Behringer eight channel A-D/D-A converter/eight channel mic preamp rack mounted unit. But it outputs to ADAT, and I am having a hard time finding a card that takes ADAT without a lot of extra i/o. I really like the RME stuff, but it's alot of overkill for only eight channels of ADAT. I am looking at the Emu 1212m pci card, which almost perfectly matches my setup (ADAT i/o and only two analog channels, perfect for monitoring) but I am not sure if it will work with linux right now. Anyway, I use a Behringer eight channel mixer in my set up (mostly for the preamps) and a Boss BR-600 digital recorder for (of all things) effects processing (the BR-600 used to be the heart of my studio before I moved to Linux with the Delta card). Next thing I need is a decent pair of monitors.

I also use Fluxbox (or e17) when I am doing the recording, and I have disabled alot of services to save memory. Using a 2.6.21 rt kernel, I can get less than 2 ms of latency with little trouble. Plenty fast for me!

Of course, all of this is on my JAD machine, since my Gentoo iron is still in preparation. My dream machine would be a dual core beastie dual bootong 64 bit Gentoo and 32 bit JAD (for wineasio, vsts, etc. And I am a opensuse fan...).

Mics, well a couple of no name dynamics and one Audix dynamic. Hoping to get a good instrument condenser soon.

I really enjoy audio on linux. Besides the ability to use pro quality software (legally) without going broke, linux is so flexible. I can use KDE for my normal work and switch to Flux, e17, or even (horrors) twm for heavy work. Try doing that on Windows (or even Mac! All I can think of are those precious processor cycles being eaten up by this silly dockbar...

). I really think that linux is optimal in many ways, and I am very excited about the Linux Audio Proof of Concept project that's going on now.

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:49 pm

davejk wrote:I really think that linux is optimal in many ways, and I am very excited about the Linux Audio Proof of Concept project that's going on now.

Linux Audio proof of concept? Please explain.

Thanks.

Blessed be!
Pappy

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:58 pm

A project Hartmut Noak (zetteberlin) started to prove the Linux is capable of professional audio production. He presented at the Linux Audio Conference 2008. Here's a link http://lac.linuxaudio.org/download/papers/5.pdf. That's the paper, the slides are here: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/download/slid ... -lac08.pdf. And here's the video of the presentation:http://lac2008.khm.de/2008-02-29/2008-0 ... oncept.ogv.

Very interesting stuff, I can assure you!

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:04 pm

think about the absolute minimum number of inputs you will need. If you're doing your own thing without a band, you could get away with the 24/96. It has two analog inputs, and two digital for use with external A/D, D/A converters. The Delta 66 has four analog inputs and two digital. The 1010 and 1010LT have eight analog inputs/outputs, and to channels ala SPDIF. It is reputed to support MIDI, but I don't know if it does so under Linux

I think the Delta 44 needs mention, too. It's the same as the 66 but without the digital i/o. If you're not using external hardware with digital outputs you don't really need it, and it's a bit cheaper.

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:36 am

You're right. I'm sorry, it was an oversight on my part. Yes, the Delta 44 is a good card. My Delta 66 started out as a Delta-44, but it was bad, so I talked an X into buying me the D-66 and its preamp head for my birthday. I did get one recording session out of the D-44 before it died.

For other news, the new versions of ardour (2.4 and 2.4.1) are now in portage...I just emerged 2.4.1 on my Core2, and I am emerging it on the Compaq Laptop even as I type this...at the same time. The first thing you'll notice off the bat is you get a volume strip in the main editor window. Now you don't have to open the mixer just to fiddle with the volume of your particular track. Nice!

That's all I have seen so far, but I am planning on doing a little playing with it tomorrow. I've been meaning to put one of my originals down for some time. Now, I have even more reason to do so.

Blessed be!
Pappy

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:53 am

Hey, sounds cool! I just finish building 2.4, and now they got a new version. Oh well, time for another round of sconning!

I run three versions of ardour, actually. ardour2, ardourvst (I am not totally convinced of the stability of ardourvst so I keep ardour3 handy) and ardour3 from svn

thepustule · Post by **thepustule** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:33 pm

Wow!

Great responses! Well, based on input here I went and got a Delta 1010LT - I want to be able to do midi - I'm a keyboard junkie. So far, my Core2Duo is running a fresh Gentoo 2008.0beta install, with linux 2.6.24.4-rt4 realtime kernel. Now I have to actually sit my butt down and figure out jack once and for all. Then it's time for rosegarden and ardour.

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:49 pm

@thepustule: Hey glad you're on board! I have been through a lot with my linux audio experience, though I wouldn't consider myself an expert. But I'll be looking to share the knowledge I have accumulated. Please pm me if you think I can help! Trust me, it's worth the effort!

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:09 pm

Thepustule, don't forget; qjackctl is your friend. It makes setting up and working with jack a breeze. It has gotten me to a place where jack is *fairly* stable. On this machine, it's most stable with the RT kernel. On the Core2, the machine is SOOO fast, jack works great, no matter what else is going on. The older laptop will run jack, but that's about it.

The bad thing is the instability of ardour. I'll take any advice on tweaks and such to bring a bit more stability. I really like some of the features of ardour;.however, its bugs get tiresome. I'm sure there are tricks that can bring me more satisfaction.

So please davejk, share any and all tips. Thanks in advance.

Blessed be!
Pappy

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:19 pm

Hehehe, you asked for it!

I'll post here with a few tidbits tomorrow, I think.

davejk · Post by **davejk** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:38 pm

Back sooner than I meant, but here's my scoop. I will be speaking at a conference (unrelated to lInux) next weekend this so I will be busy till that's over.
But I also think that a good distro independent linux audio tutorial, featuring all the major audio apps and some practical advice on configuration, ec, would be helpful. I am planning on starting a thread where I will try to get the beginnings of such a tutorial. Comments will be welcome, but I am not sure whether I want to do it here or at the Jacklab forum. Nothing against Gentoo, but the Jacklab forum already is a pro audio forum and it might fit more naturally there. Of course, I would post a link here. What do you guys think? Would you mind if I posted my tips there? Just looking for feedback. I appreciate the active discussion here and wouldn't want to take off if it was really inconvenient.

thepustule · Post by **thepustule** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:18 pm

Hey davejk,

Definitely interested! I'd eagerly devour any info you have.

I'll say that my biggest interest is in midi, so right now I'm experimenting a lot with jack/qjackctl, fluidsynth/qsynth, and rosegarden. In the system I described a couple posts previous, I'm getting a LOT farther than I ever have before with Linux pro audio. Although my system is locking up a lot with NVRM Xid errors (nvidia drivers I think?) and AACRAID scsi timeouts. This is usually during medium to heavy disk activity, so as long as I stick to midi, I don't have much of that and have no problems.

A lot of my questions would have more to do with best practices and techniques with audio and sequencing, which might stretch into the "off-topic" area on a gentoo/linux forum, so maybe jacklab might be a better place? Although it might be good to post regular summaries here.

pappy_mcfae · Post by **pappy_mcfae** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:27 pm

Hey davejk,

I'm still waiting with baited breath for some of those tricks and treats.

Also, I finally got my ducks in a row and tried some recording with ardour. It took a bit to figure out what twiddling needed to be done to get things right, but I laid down four tracks in rather fast order. Using ardour 2.4.1 on my Core2, I did the recording with my standard 2.6.22-gentoo-r10 kernel without real time support, and it works great. I guess speed is a good thing for ardour's condition.

Anyway, I figured it was time to bump this thread.

Blessed be!
Pappy