nmp0906,
There is no 'them' and 'us' in Gentoo.
Gentoo is a community, so there is only 'we'.
Looking to your community spirit, what are you, as a member of the Gentoo community, prepared to donate ?
gentoo-wiki.com is not a part of the Gentoo project. It is not run on any Gentoo Foundation owned or sponsored hardware.
When/if the site comes back up, please contact the operators with offers of servers, internet bandwidth or even donations towards the costs of operating the site.
http://gentoo-{wiki,portage}.com doesnt work for me?
Message
- NeddySeagoon
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Yeah, sometime searching something in this forum can be a hell of a ride. But with the wiki, we can have at least some valid info when the wiki is up to date...DrAgOnTuX wrote:There is a 'we' in Gentoo?
So why WE haven't a wiki where user/devs can write down their tutorials? A forum is IMHO not such a good place.
Maybe, the solution is to start over a new wiki page...
Agreed. gentoo-wiki.com fills in nicely a hole that the Gentoo Foundation has. However, "community" extends beyond the Gentoo Foundation and its direct users to incorporate any and all users, supporters, and providers of Gentoo and Gentoo related stuffs. It is everybody working together. Though, that doesn't really help with the fact that gentoo-wiki.com is still down and I'd like to use it. 
as long as you can't reach the "unofficial" wiki, try google cache:
e.g. http://www.google.com/search?strip=1&q= ... _-_Paludis[/i]
as long as you don't know the url, you'll have to wait
edit: fixed googe.com -> google.com
edit2: added "strip=1" parameter -> the browser doesn't try to fetch css and images from dead server
e.g. http://www.google.com/search?strip=1&q= ... _-_Paludis[/i]
as long as you don't know the url, you'll have to wait
edit: fixed googe.com -> google.com
edit2: added "strip=1" parameter -> the browser doesn't try to fetch css and images from dead server
Last edited by DrAgOnTuX on Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
thanks, fixed itJeliJami wrote:try googlenmp0906 wrote:Yea, that didn't work. I tried that for the Asus F3SV Hardware page by doing a Google search and selecting cached. Even that link you provided doesn't work.
edit: added the "strip" parameter
and tested with the Asus F3SV Hardware page
worked! (link)- mimosinnet
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There is no them and us in Gentoo. Nevertheless, the Forums are "us" (the gentoo project) and the gentoo wiki is "Them". I find this distinctions quite difficult to understand. I believe the gentoo wiki is quite needed by the "gentoo project", and many of us would have quite a difficult time without the wiki. I would very much appreciate if the "gentoo project" recognised this situation. I do not believe that the distinction is that the information in the wiki is not unreliable: there are many unreliable information in the forums, and many threads have outdated and incomplete information, as the wiki has.NeddySeagoon wrote:There is no 'them' and 'us' in Gentoo.
Gentoo is a community, so there is only 'we'.
Looking to your community spirit, what are you, as a member of the Gentoo community, prepared to donate ?
gentoo-wiki.com is not a part of the Gentoo project. It is not run on any Gentoo Foundation owned or sponsored hardware.
I believe both the forums and the wki may have useful and incorrect information, and both are needed by the community. I understand the "gentoo project", for whatever reasons, does not want to get associated or support the gentoo wiki.
wiki vs static docs vs forums vs mailinglists
This topic comes up fairly often. There is a place for static pages, wikis, web forums, and mailing lists, and they are all slightly different.
The official documentation on gentoo.org makes sense to have as static documents. They've been written,edited, checked, and should be as up-to-date as any documentation there is for gentoo. However, the nature of the beast says that it can't cover all topics (too much work in editing and updating), and it can't ever be bleeding edge (editing takes time).
Forums are good for a quick answer. "Hey, I'm having a problem with my ____" "oh hey, I had that problem, try patchset xyz". This is a great purpose. But if you are searching through to find something, you end up finding a lot of suggestions that didn't work for that person, and a LOT of outdated information. You'll read through a 10 page thread about your hardware, only to find on page 8 that somebody mentions "oh, you don't need to do that anymore, that was only kernels older than 2.6.9" or something, thereby negating all the how-tos. Some threads are great, and they original poster goes back and edits the first post to include a lot of information. That's basically doing the job of a wiki.
Wikis are good for information that changes at a medium rate. It's not so static that you can write it in stone, but it changes infrequently enough that you want to have a copy of it available for reference. It puts all the information in one place and makes it easy to add or correct something. When compared to a forum post, a wiki can just contain a simple "This method is outdated, try this instead". A forum post generally will only contain that tag in a reply on a distant page.
Mailing lists are good for VERY quick responses, but are lacking a lot of features for information retention and organization.
So to get back on topic - boo for gentoo-wiki being down! I wanted to add some notes and examples to the howto I followed on setting up HTB.
The official documentation on gentoo.org makes sense to have as static documents. They've been written,edited, checked, and should be as up-to-date as any documentation there is for gentoo. However, the nature of the beast says that it can't cover all topics (too much work in editing and updating), and it can't ever be bleeding edge (editing takes time).
Forums are good for a quick answer. "Hey, I'm having a problem with my ____" "oh hey, I had that problem, try patchset xyz". This is a great purpose. But if you are searching through to find something, you end up finding a lot of suggestions that didn't work for that person, and a LOT of outdated information. You'll read through a 10 page thread about your hardware, only to find on page 8 that somebody mentions "oh, you don't need to do that anymore, that was only kernels older than 2.6.9" or something, thereby negating all the how-tos. Some threads are great, and they original poster goes back and edits the first post to include a lot of information. That's basically doing the job of a wiki.
Wikis are good for information that changes at a medium rate. It's not so static that you can write it in stone, but it changes infrequently enough that you want to have a copy of it available for reference. It puts all the information in one place and makes it easy to add or correct something. When compared to a forum post, a wiki can just contain a simple "This method is outdated, try this instead". A forum post generally will only contain that tag in a reply on a distant page.
Mailing lists are good for VERY quick responses, but are lacking a lot of features for information retention and organization.
So to get back on topic - boo for gentoo-wiki being down! I wanted to add some notes and examples to the howto I followed on setting up HTB.
- NeddySeagoon
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Se7enLC,
You have made some very convincing arguments for Gentoo to maintain a wiki.
Maybe it could happen if the pages had a health warning about the content ?
The climate to allow this sort of change may be better in the wake of the movement to try to operate the Gentoo project more as a 'we', that came out of the publicity surrounding the Gentoo Foundation.
Let me encourage you to file a bug making the case.
You have made some very convincing arguments for Gentoo to maintain a wiki.
Maybe it could happen if the pages had a health warning about the content ?
The climate to allow this sort of change may be better in the wake of the movement to try to operate the Gentoo project more as a 'we', that came out of the publicity surrounding the Gentoo Foundation.
Let me encourage you to file a bug making the case.
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Re: wiki vs static docs vs forums vs mailinglists
Yes please do that as soon as wiki comes upSe7enLC wrote:
So to get back on topic - boo for gentoo-wiki being down! I wanted to add some notes and examples to the howto I followed on setting up HTB.
. I am trying to setup HTB as well and i need as much information as i can getThank you very much for your time
If Gentoo were to start an "official" wiki, I believe they shouldn't start with the content of the current gentoo wiki. It's too disorganised and has too much obsolete, irrelevant, wrong or just messy material. Any new wiki should, I believe, start from scratch with strict rules on page naming and formatting. This is somewhere where gentoo-wiki went wrong - they've had too little oversight for too long and now any tidying up is just a drop in the ocean of messyness that it has become.
- NeddySeagoon
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Eckos,
A little like the forums mods do for the forums.
Who would these people be ?
Making an official wiki will not fix that. Gentoo would also need some wiki maintainers to keep the wiki well organised an up to date.Eckos wrote:... we need to have an official wiki because gentoo-wiki has alot of outdate things ...
A little like the forums mods do for the forums.
Who would these people be ?
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
- mimosinnet
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Thanks a lot NeddySeagoon! I am really happy to hear this. I have opened a bug, quoting Se7enLC in http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=209399.NeddySeagoon wrote:Se7enLC,
You have made some very convincing arguments for Gentoo to maintain a wiki.
Maybe it could happen if the pages had a health warning about the content ?
The climate to allow this sort of change may be better in the wake of the movement to try to operate the Gentoo project more as a 'we', that came out of the publicity surrounding the Gentoo Foundation.
Let me encourage you to file a bug making the case.
Cheers!
- Bill Cosby
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Gentoo wiki is among the best wikis, that's because it actually is the most distro independent.
However, I always thought, that a common source of knowledge for Linux would be good, and there actually is such an effort, namely The Linux Documentation Project, it would be coold if both would actually merge their knowledge to have it all more centralized, and the TLDP guys seem to have good servers
However, I always thought, that a common source of knowledge for Linux would be good, and there actually is such an effort, namely The Linux Documentation Project, it would be coold if both would actually merge their knowledge to have it all more centralized, and the TLDP guys seem to have good servers