AMD64 or not ?

[-JeaN-]

Hi guys,

I got a laptop ( DELL M65 ) which ships with a "nocona" compatible CPU.

I'm an old time user of Gentoo, and I love it, thing is that I'm not sure wether to install it with 64bit support or not. My concern, is that I'm pretty sure most programs are well tested and built on 32bit, and the 64bit support might be broken from time to time..

I already faced problems with broken packages in the past, in a 32bit environement, and I was thinking that eventually moving to the 64bit support might even increase the chances of crash. Any thoughts ?

Thanks in advance

[didymos]

My concern, is that I'm pretty sure most programs are well tested and built on 32bit

So are most packages with a 64-bit arch. Stuff breaks, 32 or 64 bits. Even well-tested stuff can break.

I already faced problems with broken packages in the past, in a 32bit environement, and I was thinking that eventually moving to the 64bit support might even increase the chances of crash. Any thoughts ?

Why do you think 64-bitness makes it more crash prone? Yeah, when amd64 was new maybe, but in my experience, most things just work. I don't think amd64 is more susceptible to problems, just that it tends to have different ones.

[Veldrin]

I don't think amd64 is more susceptible to problems, just that it tends to have different ones.

notably (or for most users) flash (binary firefox, or gnash as alternative), and some drawbacks in java (I haven't found any yet)

cheers
V.

[naviathan]

With as long as 64 bit linux has been out, I'm sure most of the problems we initially experienced with running 64 bit have been resolved. It seems software vendors are starting to come around build more 64 bit linux apps as well as Windows apps. If you're undecided, the last time I ran a comparison between 64 and 32 bit, 64 bit won out in all out speed and stability so long as you stick with 64 bit apps. Start mixing 64 and 32 and you sometimes run into problems.

[redwoolf]

I've been running 64bit Gentoo for some time now, and it isn't as buggy as other 64bit distros. In fact, it's not really buggy at all. My only gripe is no flash support, but that'll be here soon enough. I find it to be just as solid and versatile as the 32bit unices i've run.

[quag7]

Note that there are binary packages you can use for Flash support (firefox-bin) in 64 bit. I also use mplayer-bin.

The other thing you'll notice if you run 64 bit is that a lot of packages are marked ~amd64. You'll have to unmask a fair amount of packages over time. However, that being said, I just did an emerge -e world on my 64 bit system - some more information here on my experience with that.

From my own perspective, having run this for a year now, there's no overriding reason not to run 64 bit unless you are prudish about running some 32 bit stuff (I run mplayer-bin and firefox-bin) on your system as well. The more people who run 64 bit, the more feedback we can get about packages and the more stuff can be marked stable. (The packages marked unstable are, I suspect, not marked that way because they are unstable but because they are not fully tested on amd64 machines).

Aside from the above, in terms of system stability, reliablity, and emerge failures, I've noticed very little difference. As I indicate in that other post, things tend be kind of more reliable for me now than at any time in the past. I ran 32 bit for 4 years before 64 bit, so that's my perspective.

[prestige]

I am running ~amd64 on dell latitude and a workstation pc, both with core2duo (-march=nocona) for nearly a year. Nothing is crashing at all. Everything works perfect. The only annoying thing is the 64bit firefox + nspluginwrapper to get 32bit flash player work.
~amd64 no question about it.

[pycior]

Like prestige said, ~amd64 is the way to go [only switching from firefox to firefox-bin can be annoying sometimes ]

not so long ago the problem was also the fact that vesafb-tng didn't work with amd64, so you were stuck with vesafb for the console, but:

projects::uvesafb

uvesafb is the successor of vesafb-tng. Its main features are:

* works on non-x86 systems,
* the Video BIOS code is run in userspace by a helper application,
* can be compiled as a module,
* adjustable refresh rates with VBE 3.0-compliant graphic cards.

from: http://dev.gentoo.org/~spock/projects/uvesafb/

[depontius]

I find amd64 to be a royal pain in the neck!!! Given a few spare moments of time, at this point I'd rather take the "family install" back to x86, and get rid of the support headaches.

To be fair, most of it centers around media plugins, where the worst cracks between a 64-bit browser and 32-bit plugins show. I tried running firefox-bin for a while, but other packages require having firefox from source installed, and at that point it's a crapshoot which firefox starts up from the various places it can be started. I try to jimmy things to make sure that the binary version gets started, but sometimes the wrapper starts the source version, and then the plugins fail.

I ran a 64-bit kernel with a 32-bit xdm/userspace for a while, and that was better, but a new release of xorg brought new xdm startup scripts with it, and I didn't have time to reverse-engineer it to get my hybrid mode running again. Then I ran 64-bit with firefox from source for a while, with only moderate grumbling about crashing from my wife.

But this week I've about had it. At the moment flash doesn't work, and I can't get nspluginwrapper to recognize it and install it. I get:

Code: Select all

localhost portage # nspluginwrapper -i /usr/lib32/nsbrowser/plugins/libflashplayer.so 
nspluginwrapper: no appropriate viewer found for /usr/lib32/nsbrowser/plugins/libflashplayer.so

in spite of the fact that both packages have been freshly installed.

I'm stressed at work, I'm stressed with family-of-origin (not my own wife and kids) issues, and now this crap called amd64/multimedia breaks down again! I'm just plain sick of it!

[quag7]

I am wondering when we will reach 50/50 of people running 64 and 32 bit. I wonder what the percentage is now.

[nixnut]

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo on AMD64.

[OldTango]

You might consider stable amd64 and then add KEYWORDS and packages using /etc/portage/ as necessary. I run my dual opteron system this way and I also have 2 X86 machines running stable gentoo as well. In the past year the only items broke on my amd64 are the same ones broke or not working properly on on the x86 machines. Mainly DVD playback.

I use the 64 bit firefox amd mozilla browsers with nspluginwrapper and they have been stable and working for some time now. I also run gnu-cash, wine (for Unreal and Half-Life), doomsday-bin (for DoomI and 2 Hexen, Heretic, TNT, Plutonia), quake3 and 4, Serious Sam TFE and some others I am curious about. All are stable and working on my system. Some of these were never designed for 64bit let alone Linux, and are all playable.

The only crashes I have had in the last year are due to heat problems in the system, and gftp which I had to mask the latest version and re-intall an older version before it would work properly again. All took me less than 15 minutes to find and fix.

Take your time, read the Docs and forums. Most of all have fun............................

[teidon]

I've run 64bit Gentoo for over 6 months now, and I haven't had any major problems. Flash used to be a problem when using Konqueror. Flash kept crashing randomly, which why I had to set plugins to be load on request (Konqueror showed a "Load plugin" buttons in place of Flash applets). But that isn't a problem anymore and I can have plugins loaded automaticly.

Video codecs could be a problem, but I haven't really run into many problems with them either. But I haven't watched many video files either. Only problem currently is with Windows Media Audio 10 (WMA10), or what ever the newest is, which doesn't work. Does it work on 32bit Linuxes?

I'm using stable by the way, with only few unstable packages here and there to spice things up. I tried unstable (~amd64) for a short while too and didn't come across any problems then either. Just decided to switch back to stable to make sure no problems would come in the future. Switching between stable and unstable is a pain by the way, so don't do it oftenly.


Of course if you don't have any reason to go for 64bit, there's no-one to force you to. So if you want to play safe, you could as well install 32bit Gentoo. Just remember that switching from 32bit to 64bit (or vice versa) isn't possible, you'll need to reinstall Gentoo for that.

[drwook]

Go 64 bit if you've got 64 bit hardware and no real reason not to. If you think you've a reason, don't. I've been running 64 bit gentoo for I think around 18 months or so without any major hassle (I run ~arch & some masked stuff, so the hassles would probably be present on x86/amd64/ppc/whatever I ran).

I don't see the point in buying 64 bit hardware and not running software that utilises it. But the difference will likely be negligible for most things.

[Matteo Azzali]

About flash, I'd suggest you to check swfdec, last time I tried (september-october) it was far more
working than gnash on my 32 bit system, so it could be really useable even on amd64 now.

[shuuhen]

Go 64 bit if you've got 64 bit hardware and no real reason not to. If you think you've a reason, don't. I've been running 64 bit gentoo for I think around 18 months or so without any major hassle (I run ~arch & some masked stuff, so the hassles would probably be present on x86/amd64/ppc/whatever I ran).

I don't see the point in buying 64 bit hardware and not running software that utilises it. But the difference will likely be negligible for most things.

Basically same here, but I haven't been running it for 18 months (just built the comp back at the end of August). I even have the latest Adobe Flash plugin working with 64-bit Firefox (using nspluginwrapper). I am running a multilib system so that I can run 32-bit software (like Opera) if I feel the need. Very stable for me.

[kernelOfTruth]

About flash, I'd suggest you to check swfdec, last time I tried (september-october) it was far more
working than gnash on my 32 bit system, so it could be really useable even on amd64 now.

++

even youtube is supposed to work,

if you try 64bit opera (beta ?) you'll even get flash + 64bit browsing

64bit is the (only) way to go

running it already since 2 months and no (severe) problems until now (~amd64)

[Twist]

If you're running multilib and nsplugin, you don't have to use "almost there" solutions for flash and the like. Just run 32bit plugins for those applications (and blame the developers for not supporting multiple platforms). It's highly compatible and doesn't "taint" your system to run the occasional 32bit app, that's why basically every 64 distro out there does 32bit compatibility libs.

-Twist

[ShinyThings]

I have been running AMD64 since March and have had no serious problems. Flash requires 32bit firefox to work properly (nspluginwrapper works, but not well). Media plugins require 64bit, and I can't run both 32 and 64bit firefox at the same time with the same user (but can with two seperate users). Java also doesn't work as a plugin, but that isn't a huge deal.

[loeb-it]

I have an 64 bit gentoo on my M65 and it works quite well now (still waiting for gcc 4.3 getting released stable for -march=core2 support). Suspend to disk sometimes crashes, but this may have other reasons, still investigating. Everything else I use works (I don't use the modem, maybe it works or not). Flash works via nspluginwrapper and for firefox java. I use the 64 Bit browser plugin of the IcedTea VM.

[Cyker]

Is there a sticky we can refer people who ask this question?

Or some sort of #include forum option?

I must have posted my opinion on this so many times that I'm actually getting sick of reading what I write!

[azarro]

......

But this week I've about had it. At the moment flash doesn't work, and I can't get nspluginwrapper to recognize it and install it. I get:

Code: Select all

localhost portage # nspluginwrapper -i /usr/lib32/nsbrowser/plugins/libflashplayer.so 
nspluginwrapper: no appropriate viewer found for /usr/lib32/nsbrowser/plugins/libflashplayer.so

in spite of the fact that both packages have been freshly installed.

I'm stressed at work, I'm stressed with family-of-origin (not my own wife and kids) issues, and now this crap called amd64/multimedia breaks down again! I'm just plain sick of it!

Have you managed to solve this problem? A few days ago my flash was working flawlessly and suddenly nspluginwrapper doesn't work anymore, no matter which version of netscape-flash / nspluginwrapper I use :-/

[depontius]

No, I haven't. In fact, my whole emul environment appears to be crumbling. There are other pieces of 32-bit software that use to run just fine, and now fail, as well. At the moment I'm putting my spare-time energy into woodworking and getting the 32-bit install on this machine groomed. I plan to switch to the 32-bit install for family use, and keep the 64-bit install around for when I'm working from home. Though at the moment it appears that quite a bit of cruft had crept in, and it needs some major work.

[Cyker]

It would seem to be a good idea... as I frequently say, it's really pointless to run lots of 32-bit software in a 64-bit system, espescially since it's done via what is basically a really hacky kludge.

64-bit and a bit of must-have 32 is okay, but any more than that and the 64-bits becomes just pose.

All IMHO of course

[dopey]

I've been running gentoo amd64 at least since 2004. I ran it on an athlon64 system, then upgraded the system to a core 2 duo E6600 system. My home server is an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ running gentoo amd64, and my work machine is a Nocona Xeon running gentoo amd64. My packages.keywords file contains many many ~amd64 packages.

As for 32-bit apps, at home I run the following:
32-bit Sun Java 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6
32-bit flash
32-bit firefox (for java plugin and flash support)
32-bit mplayer-bin
crossover office
cedega
32-bit acrobat reader
and a plethora of 32-bit games (ut2004, quake4, doom3, enemy territory quake wars)

At work I use the following 32-bit apps:
32-bit firefox for java plugin support
32-bit Sun java 1.4, 1.5, 1.6
32-bit citrix ICAClient
32-bit rational rose
32-bit clearcase client
32-bit acrobat reader
32-bit SunOne 6.x and sun java system web server 7.x
32-bit IBM WebSphere Application Server and HTTP Server with the 32-bit IBM JDKs.
crossover office

I have had pretty close to zero problems. My app-emulation layer works very well. Basically things have just worked. Early on in 2004 I had some growing pains issues, but in general amd64 is IMO, as stable as x86, including the ability to support all of the 32-bit apps I need to run.

Prior to the new app-emulation framework currently being used I used to use Blubb's documentation on building some of my own 32-bit support libraries. For example, for SunOne 6.x's installer, I need libtermcap to run the installer, so I built my own emul-linux-x86-libtermcap-compat library.