[SOLVED] How update system with paludis?

[arek.k]

I hope, this questions isn't stupid. I really don't know how can I do whole system (world) update with paludis.
The list of packages, that needs update:

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# eix -I | grep [\[U\]]
[U] app-editors/nano
[U] app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd
[U] dev-python/docutils
[U] sys-apps/ed
[U] virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils

Until now, I have doing it like this:

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# paludis  -i world

but paludis claim, there's nothing to do:

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paludis -ip world
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:


Total: 0 packages

The paludis -ip --dl-upgrade always world gives the same effect.

To confirm, that paludis know, that above-cited packages needs update:

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# paludis -ip app-editors/nano app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd dev-python/docutils sys-apps/ed virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:

* app-editors/nano-2.0.6::gentoo {:0} [U 2.0.4] -debug -justify -minimal ncurses nls slang spell unicode
* app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-4.4::gentoo {:4.4} [S]
* dev-python/docutils-0.4-r2::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4-r1] -emacs -glep
* sys-apps/ed-0.5::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4]
* perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [N]
* virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [U 1.18]

Total: 6 packages (1 new, 4 upgrades, 1 in new slot)

Why paludis doesn't update those packages on paludis -i world? Can I "fix it"? How can I do the whole system (world) update?

[yoshi314]

maybe they're not in world, so it cannot find them?

or you have something messed up with virtuals?
try paludis --regenerate-installable-cache


and

paludis --regenerate-installed-cache

[arek.k]

There's no change after

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paludis --regenerate-installable-cache
paludis --regenerate-installed-cache

You're right, there aren't above-cited packages in world, but I think that paludis should update dependencies too, not only "direct installed" packages from world.

(I should ask this question on Polish Forum, @yoshi314 (zapomnia³em, ¿e jeste¶ specjalist±) .)

[slycordinator]

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paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always

Though I do the following

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paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always --dl-reinstall if-use-changed --dl-deps-default pre-or-post

[arek.k]

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paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always

Though I do the following

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paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always --dl-reinstall if-use-changed --dl-deps-default pre-or-post

You're right. The --dl-deps-default pre-or-post helped (almost). Now I have something like this:

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# paludis -ip world --dl-upgrade always --dl-reinstall if-use-changed --dl-deps-default pre-or-post
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:

* app-arch/sharutils-4.6.3::gentoo {:0} [R] -doc* nls
* sys-apps/ed-0.5::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4]
* perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [N]
* virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [U 1.18]

Total: 4 packages (1 new, 2 upgrades, 1 rebuild)

IMHO app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd and dev-python/docutils (from my first post) are remains after uninstalled packages (paludis state that any packages need them) so they should not be install (upgrade). So they isn't on the "upgrade list".

This is almost solved, but there is still one problem -app-editors/nano. Paludis state that some packages need it. I think that because:

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# paludis -up --with-dependencies nano
Building unmerge list... done

These packages will be uninstalled:

* x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.02-r2::installed
* gnome-base/gdm-2.16.4::installed
* x11-libs/gksu-2.0.0::installed
* x11-libs/libgksu-2.0.0::installed
* app-admin/sudo-1.6.8_p12-r1::installed
* app-editors/nano-2.0.4::installed


Total: 6 packages

So, nano is a dependency of some packages, and should be upgrade.
But nano isn't on the "upgrade list". The question is why? Do you have some idea?

[slycordinator]

Just because nano is installed doesn't mean it should be updated.

I think you have nano installed even though nothing in your world file depends on it.

Like if I did "paludis -i1 nano"
Then later did "paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always --dl-deps-default pre-or-post" nano wouldn't be upgraded even though a newer version exists.

edit:
The command you used did NOT show that something depends on nano. The command "paludis -up --with-dependencies nano" shows you what packages will be uninstalled if you remove nano AND ALL OF IT'S DEPENDENCIES.

You should try doing "paludis --uninstall-unused -p" and maybe "paludis --uninstall-unused --with-unused-dependencies -p"

[arek.k]

Just because nano is installed doesn't mean it should be updated.

I think you have nano installed even though nothing in your world file depends on it.

Like if I did "paludis -i1 nano"

Then later did "paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always --dl-deps-default pre-or-post" nano wouldn't be upgraded even though a newer version exists.

You're right. If I install package with -1 option it can't be update, because paludis search only world and "world packages dependencies" for upgrade.
I know, that paludis don't check for update packages installed with -1.
The nano arrived (come) with stage3, as a default text editor, and was updated many times, by emerge (I have migrated on paludis recently).

The command you used did NOT show that something depends on nano. The command "paludis -up --with-dependencies nano" shows you what packages will be uninstalled if you remove nano AND ALL OF IT'S DEPENDENCIES.

It means the same for me. paludis -up --with-dependencies nano shows packages, that will be uninstaled if I uninstall nano. So they need nano. So the nano is theirs dependency (maybe not direct dependency, but they needs nano).
The some more information we have in:

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# paludis -up --with-dependencies --show-reasons summary nano
Building unmerge list... done

These packages will be uninstalled:

* x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.02-r2::installed <gnome-base/gdm-2.16.4::installed>
* gnome-base/gdm-2.16.4::installed <x11-libs/gksu-2.0.0::installed>
* x11-libs/gksu-2.0.0::installed <x11-libs/libgksu-2.0.0::installed>
* x11-libs/libgksu-2.0.0::installed <app-admin/sudo-1.6.8_p12-r1::installed>
* app-admin/sudo-1.6.8_p12-r1::installed <virtual/editor-2.0.4::installed_virtuals>
* app-editors/nano-2.0.4::installed


Total: 6 packages

So sudo needs nano (as virtual/editor).

You should try doing "paludis --uninstall-unused -p" and maybe "paludis --uninstall-unused --with-unused-dependencies -p"

There isn't nano on the list.

I ask about nano, because emerge want to update nano:

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# emerge -Dup world
[ebuild     U ] sys-apps/ed-0.5 [0.4]
[ebuild     U ] app-editors/nano-2.0.6 [2.0.4]

It is important for me to establish the cause of this difference between paludis and emerge. I want to use paludis instead of emerge (or maybe all portage some day), because it give me more functionality (it have more functions that makes package management easy).

[Gusar]

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paludis -i everything

[nikaya]

@arek.k
Paludis has a different behaviour to Portage.You should set the option '--dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post' as described in the Paludis-FAQ:
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq.html#updatingdepends

Paludis does not update DEPENDs of already installed packages

Paludis ignores DEPENDs of already installed packages by default. If you need a different behaviour, use the --dl-installed-deps-pre option.

You can set it by default by adding PALUDIS_OPTIONS to your bashrc (environment):
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq.html#defaultoptions
Something like that:

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export PALUDIS_OPTIONS="--show-reasons summary --dl-downgrade warning --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post"

[arek.k]

Paludis has a different behaviour to Portage.You should set the option '--dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post'...

Now I know about --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post option (it expand the list of packages for update), and IMHO (with this option) the updates list shoud be the same as the emerge -Dup list.
The problem is almost solved (as I described above), but there is only one problem - nano. It must be at some packages dependency list (I think - reasons have been quoted in above posts). --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post should analyse whole dependencies tree, so it should try to update nano too.

Maybe I will try to uninstall nano, and then upgrade packages that seems to need it. Here must be some reason why nano isn't check for update.

You can set it by default by adding PALUDIS_OPTIONS to your bashrc (environment):
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq.html#defaultoptions
Something like that:

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export PALUDIS_OPTIONS="--show-reasons summary --dl-downgrade warning --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post"

Maybe I don't understand something, but it not works, and:

You can either use a shell alias, or export PALUDIS_OPTIONS="--options" (in your environment, not in the configuration bashrc).

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paludis -i everything

It's doing almost I want, but the list is to long:

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# paludis -ip --show-reasons summary  everything
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:

* app-editors/nano-2.0.6::gentoo {:0} [U 2.0.4] -debug -justify -minimal ncurses nls slang spell unicode <everything>
* app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-4.4::gentoo {:4.4} [S]  <everything>
* perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [N]  <virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo>
* virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils-1.19::gentoo {:0} [U 1.18]  <everything> <dev-perl/IO-Compress-Base-2.001::installed>
* dev-python/docutils-0.4-r2::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4-r1] -emacs -glep <everything>
* sys-apps/ed-0.5::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4]  <everything> <app-text/tetex-3.0_p1-r3::gentoo>
* net-libs/libwww-5.4.0-r7::gentoo {:0} [N] -mysql ssl <app-text/tetex-3.0_p1-r3::gentoo>
* app-text/tetex-3.0_p1-r3::gentoo {:0} [N] X -Xaw3d -doc -lesstif -motif -neXt -tk <virtual/tetex-3.0_p1-r3::virtuals>

Total: 8 packages (3 new, 4 upgrades, 1 in new slot)

General sets:

* everything:      All installed packages

The problem is with net-libs/libwww and app-text/tetex. I have app-editors/kile installed. It needs tetex, but I don't want it, so I modified the kile-1.9.3.ebuild (I removed the tetex dependency), and created my own privete-repo with this package. Paludis run with everything "atom" seems to check dependency list from the main "gentoo-repo" (importance = 5) instead of my "private-repo" (importance = 6). Normaly, when I try to install kile (with dependencies), paludis use private-repo, nad the dependency list looks like this:

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# paludis -ip --show-reasons summary --dl-deps-default pre-or-post kile
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:

* sys-apps/ed-0.5::gentoo {:0} [U 0.4]  <x11-libs/libXaw-1.0.3::installed>
* app-editors/kile-1.9.3::private-portage {:0} [R] arts -debug kde -tetex -xinerama linguas: -br -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et -eu -fi -fr -ga -gl -hi -hu -is -it -ja -lt -mt -nb -nl -nn -pa pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -rw -sk -sr -sr@Latn -sv -ta -tr -zh_CN

Total: 2 packages (1 upgrade, 1 rebuild)

It seems like "everything" would broke repository importance.

EDIT:
There is something I don't understand. I uninstalled nano, and try to update world paludis -ip --dl-deps-default pre-or-post world, and there isn't nano on the list. Also when I try to install sudo (which seems to needed nano as a virtual/editor) the nano isn't on the dependency list.
Maybe I should install nano directly (add it to the world). Maybe nano should be in world (on another machine with gentoo I have nano in the world).
Can somebody check does nano should be directly in world file (/var/lib/portage/nano)? Maybe I have broken something.

[nikaya]

EDIT:
There is something I don't understand. I uninstalled nano, and try to update world paludis -ip --dl-deps-default pre-or-post world, and there isn't nano on the list. Also when I try to install sudo (which seems to needed nano as a virtual/editor) the nano isn't on the dependency list.
Maybe I should install nano directly (add it to the world). Maybe nano should be in world (on another machine with gentoo I have nano in the world).
Can somebody check does nano should be directly in world file (/var/lib/portage/nano)? Maybe I have broken something.

Yep,having the same problem.Nano isn't on this machine in the world file and it wasn't updated the last time:

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# paludis -i nano -p
Building target list...
Building dependency list...

These packages will be installed:

* app-editors/nano-2.0.6 {:0} [U 2.0.3] -debug -justify -minimal ncurses nls slang spell unicode

Total: 1 package (1 upgrade)

I don't know whether it is on my other machines in world file,but I think it isn't by default in it.

Does anybody know what exactly is included in the set 'everything' besides 'world' and 'system'?Nano is the only package which will be installed additionally when I choose 'everything'.

[nikaya]

You can set it by default by adding PALUDIS_OPTIONS to your bashrc (environment):
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq.html#defaultoptions
Something like that:

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export PALUDIS_OPTIONS="--show-reasons summary --dl-downgrade warning --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post"

Maybe I don't understand something, but it not works, and:

You can either use a shell alias, or export PALUDIS_OPTIONS="--options" (in your environment, not in the configuration bashrc).

It means you must not set it in /etc/paludis/bashrc but in the bashrc of the environment.I set it in /etc/profile (for login-shells) and in /etc/bash/bashrc (terminalemulators).You can also put it in a /root/.bashrc.

[arek.k]

It means you must not set it in /etc/paludis/bashrc but in the bashrc of the environment.I set it in /etc/profile (for login-shells) and in /etc/bash/bashrc (terminalemulators).You can also put it in a /root/.bashrc.

Thanks john, now it's clear for me.

Does anybody know what exactly is included in the set 'everything' besides 'world' and 'system'?Nano is the only package which will be installed additionally when I choose 'everything'.

paludis -ip everything seems to check all installed packages for update (search not by world and dependencies).

EDIT:
There is something strange for me in 'everything' "atom". It try to install packages that are not installed and aren't dependencies of another package.
You're right @john.doe, maybe somebody know what 'everything' exactly means?

[Paapaa]

There is something strange for me in 'everything' "atom". It try to install packages that are not installed and aren't dependencies of another package. You're right @john.doe, maybe somebody know what 'everything' exactly means?

Everything means every installed package. Also those not in world. I have Nano installed, but it is not in world and it isn't a dependency of any other package. So I can update it with everything.

[arek.k]

Ok @Paapaa, but why paludis -ip everything try to install app-text/tetex. It isn't dependency of any installed packages, and it isn't in world.
There must be something else, that paludis -ip everything do - not only update the installed packages.
What does tell paludis to install app-text/tetex.
I have kile installed, but I remove 'virtual/tetex' dependency from kile ebuild (when I try 'paludis -ip kile' there isn't tetex on dependency list).

So, now I try to establish why paludis -ip everything cause the app-text/tetex instalation.

[slycordinator]

Ok @Paapaa, but why paludis -ip everything try to install app-text/tetex. It isn't dependency of any installed packages, and it isn't in world.

When you made your private repository and removed app-text/tetex from the kile ebuild did you reinstall kile?

If your answer is "no" then this is exactly your problem.

everything = every installed package = paludis looks at the ebuilds that are in /var/db/pkg and installs the dependencies of those (and NOT the dependencies of the current ebuilds in the tree).

In other words: If you make a new local ebuild with the same version as that of the one in portage you should reinstall with that ebuild. And just because it shows a big "R" for rebuild doesn't mean you don't need to do this (it shows that anytime you install a package where the version number stays the same).

And with the whole nano issue:
If you have multiple text editors installed only one of them will be the one that's installed by default when you do "paludis -ip --dl-upgrade always system" Like if you have vim installed it might be installing vim by default since both vim and nano provide virtual/editor.

[arek.k]

When you made your private repository and removed app-text/tetex from the kile ebuild did you reinstall kile?

Yes.

In other words: If you make a new local ebuild with the same version as that of the one in portage you should reinstall with that ebuild. And just because it shows a big "R" for rebuild doesn't mean you don't need to do this (it shows that anytime you install a package where the version number stays the same).

I don't understand it.
I made a new ebuild - I've copied the kile-1.9.3.ebuild to my private-repo directory and changed the RDEPEND in kile-1.9.3.ebuild.
So now I have:

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# less /usr/repos-paludis/private-repo/app-editors/kile/kile-1.9.3.ebuild
...
RDEPEND="dev-lang/perl
        kde? ( || ( ( kde-base/kpdf
                      kde-base/kghostview
                      kde-base/kdvi
                      kde-base/kviewshell )
                    kde-base/kdegraphics ) )
        tetex? ( virtual/tetex
                 dev-tex/latex2html )"
...

I have changed only this in ebuild file.
I reinstalled kile today, but I still have the same problem.
I think, that if tetex wasn't installed on paludis -i kile, it should not be install on paludis -i everything (tetex isn't in world - is not an installed package, and it isn't any package dependency).

And with the whole nano issue:
If you have multiple text editors installed only one of them will be the one that's installed by default when you do "paludis -ip --dl-upgrade always system" Like if you have vim installed it might be installing vim by default since both vim and nano provide virtual/editor.

Yes, you right. I have two packages installed which are providing virtual/editor.

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# qgrep -lJ 'PROVIDE="virtual/editor"'
app-editors/nano-2.0.6/nano-2.0.6.ebuild
app-misc/mc-4.6.1-r3/mc-4.6.1-r3.ebuild

So, theproblem with nano is clear for me (it's solved) but I think it is a disadvantage of paludis, that it not try to update all installed virtual dependencies. Maybe it is only my opinion, but paludis -ip everything want to install too many packages (for example, the dependencies, that was necessary only for compile same packages, that don't need to be rebuild in everything "mode").
I hope my description is clear for you .
There would be great if paludis try to update all installed virtual dependencies on paludis -i world --dl-upgrade always --dl-deps-default pre-or-post or another option (that should be added), --dl-upgrade-virtual for example.

There is another way to fix it. If I want to use nano, I can add it to the world (install it directly), but I thing it's not the best idea.


EDIT:
tetex dependency:
OK, I found my mistake. I have latex2html installed (old installation). I have uninstalled tetex, but forgot about latex2html (when I migrate to texlive own installation). The virtual/tetex was on latex2html dependency list. Now I have uninstalled latex2html and the tetex isn't on paludis -ip everything list.

Now I have answers for all of my questions. I mark this topic as [SOLVED].
But there is still the nano (and all virtual dependencies) problem. I think it would be great if we could update all packages installed as virtual dependencies not by paludis -ip everything, because it try to update all (even unused, unnecessary packages). I know, those packages should be uninstalled by paludis --uninstall-unused.

[nikaya]

One final question just for clarification:
The option --dl-deps-default is defined in the manpage as "Override default behaviour for all dependency classes".
Is --dl-deps-default pre-or-post --dl-reinstall if-use-changed the best option given to Paludis for an in-depth world update?

[arek.k]

One final question just for clarification:
The option --dl-deps-default is defined in the manpage as "Override default behaviour for all dependency classes".
Is --dl-deps-default pre-or-post --dl-reinstall if-use-changed the best option given to Paludis for an in-depth world update?

I'm not sure, but if I understand your question properly the answer is, that (IMHO) --dl-deps-default pre-or-post --dl-reinstall if-use-changed is the best option for update world. There is only one problem with virtual dependencies (or maybe it is my knowledges lack).


The paludis -i everything is not bad too, but it want to update all installed packages, even if you don't want (need) it.
Example:
You have 'firstpackage' which is needed only for build 'secondpackage'.
There is no newer version for 'secondpackage', but there is one for 'firstpackage'.
You don't need to update 'firstpackage', because it is needed only for build 'secondpackage', but you will not build 'secondpackage'.
The problem is, that paludis -ip everything update 'firstpackage' (because it have been installed) - it is waste of time (in that situation).

I hope, you understand my "English" .

[nikaya]

I'm not sure, but if I understand your question properly the answer is, that (IMHO) --dl-deps-default pre-or-post --dl-reinstall if-use-changed is the best option for update world. There is only one problem with virtual dependencies (or maybe it is my knowledges lack).

I wasn't sure about --dl-deps-default pre-or-post.I suggested --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post is the best dependency resolution.But as I understand it --dl-deps-default pre-or-post includes --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post.

The paludis -i everything is not bad too, but it want to update all installed packages, even if you don't want (need) it.

The 'everything' set is now clear for me.I'm more interested in a fully world update.

[arek.k]

I'm not sure, but if I understand your question properly the answer is, that (IMHO) --dl-deps-default pre-or-post --dl-reinstall if-use-changed is the best option for update world. There is only one problem with virtual dependencies (or maybe it is my knowledges lack).

I wasn't sure about --dl-deps-default pre-or-post.I suggested --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post is the best dependency resolution.But as I understand it --dl-deps-default pre-or-post includes --dl-installed-deps-pre pre-or-post.

The paludis -i everything is not bad too, but it want to update all installed packages, even if you don't want (need) it.

The 'everything' set is now clear for me.I'm more interested in a fully world update.

Now I understand your question. I missed the difference between --dl-deps-default and --dl-installed-deps-pre in your post.
I don't understand pre-post dependencies enough to teach you .
I have updated my world with --dl-deps-default pre-or-post option, and the result was ok for me.
Maybe someone, who know difference between all: --dl-deps-default, --dl-installed-deps-pre, --dl-installed-deps-runtime and --dl-installed-deps-post tell us what this options means in practice. It isn't clear for me too.

[slycordinator]

And with the whole nano issue:
If you have multiple text editors installed only one of them will be the one that's installed by default when you do "paludis -ip --dl-upgrade always system" Like if you have vim installed it might be installing vim by default since both vim and nano provide virtual/editor.

Yes, you right. I have two packages installed which are providing virtual/editor.

Code: Select all

# qgrep -lJ 'PROVIDE="virtual/editor"'
app-editors/nano-2.0.6/nano-2.0.6.ebuild
app-misc/mc-4.6.1-r3/mc-4.6.1-r3.ebuild

So, theproblem with nano is clear for me (it's solved) but I think it is a disadvantage of paludis, that it not try to update all installed virtual dependencies.

I disagree. If a package provides virtual/editor then no other package needs to be installed that also provides it.

And it did update all virtual dependencies. Something depends on virtual/editor NOT on nano.

Maybe it is only my opinion, but paludis -ip everything want to install too many packages (for example, the dependencies, that was necessary only for compile same packages, that don't need to be rebuild in everything "mode").

I honestly have no idea what you're saying. You're being extremely vague.

Now I have answers for all of my questions. I mark this topic as [SOLVED].

But there is still the nano (and all virtual dependencies) problem. I think it would be great if we could update all packages installed as virtual dependencies not by paludis -ip everything, because it try to update all (even unused, unnecessary packages). I know, those packages should be uninstalled by paludis --uninstall-unused.

[arek.k]

I disagree. If a package provides virtual/editor then no other package needs to be installed that also provides it.

And it did update all virtual dependencies. Something depends on virtual/texteditor NOT on nano.

I think, that paludis should not install all packages providing virtual/editor. But if I have installed many packages that provide virtual/editor (in my system it is nano and mc), paludis should try to update all of this (installed!) packages. Paludis can't know what application is important for my (which one I want to use as texteditor), so it should ask me do I want to update package (nano in my example).
I proposed to add new option, which tells paludis to update all packages from virtual, because not all of people want to upgrade those packages.
Maybe it is too complicated, and the easier way is to add the package (nano in this case) to the world.

I honestly have no idea what you're saying. You're being extremely vague.

I'm sorry. It's my fault (I must learn English ... maybe some day). I can't describe it in English . I have tried to made it clear in this post:

The paludis -i everything is not bad too, but it want to update all installed packages, even if you don't want (need) it.
Example:
...

but probably it isn't clear (for normal people) too .