2006.0 x86 livecd - How well does it work for you?

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1clue · Post by **1clue** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:22 pm

Trying to keep the fire out of this post,

I'm a new Gentoo user but a fairly old hand at Linux. I've been using Linux only for my personal equipment for years now, except for a mac laptop I got when OSX came out. OSX is great for what it is, but I'm still more comfortable with Linux. I have been stuck with RedHat Enterprise Lnux for a while now because of their support system.

I installed Gentoo on a VMware image first. It took a while to figure out that it was the VMware image that couldn't boot the stage 3 cd, I stuck one in a real box and it booted fine. I wish I had tried that with the first CD rather than the 10th.

The stage 3 tarball taught me a whole lot about LInux. It got me researching things I thought I knew pretty well. I have not yet tried the 2006 image. It showed up on your site about 2 days after I had made the 2005.1 system "comfortable."

I have to say that the stage 3 tarball was just exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping that the 2006 image was the same thing only more recent. It sounds like that method can still be used, I certainly hope so. I was hoping to install a lot of boxes as headless systems, to the point that I've been searching for boards which have no video card and empty 1U and 2U cases. Oddly enough, those are remarkably hard to find, at least to find any that have some nuts to them.

I do not object to offering a GUI-based install, as long as a stage 3-style one is available as well.

One thing I do sort of have an issue with is aiming at the beginner Linux user. It seems like every distro is doing that, and Gentoo seemed to be as far from that as you could get. Between the "source-based" and "expert" buzz words, I chose Gentoo based on that. That's not to say that n00bs are not welcome here, that's ridiculous. Tailor the distro towards an expert user, and anyone who can "pass the entrance exam" should be welcome here.

One thing I was going to look into next was how to make my own tarball. If doing that is easy enough, then I guess I don't really care how the official installer CD works.

smurfd · Post by **smurfd** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:20 pm

um from what i have read, there is a "nox" boot option to the livecd disc. or something like it, to not bootup to a graphical env.

1clue · Post by **1clue** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:30 pm

I assume so.

By the way, I just figured out that I actually did a stage 2 install, then an upgrade to make everything current. I was mistaken on what "stage 3" actually meant.

In the process, I found a HOWTO for a live cd, and another for a stage 4 tarball. Heck, I think this idea is too far off-topic. I'm gonna go crank up another thread.

dmartinsca · Post by **dmartinsca** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:54 pm

You can still download a minimal install cd for gentoo 2006.0, just like previous versions.
I think the entire reason for the livecd and graphical installer is to speed up the install process, not to make it easier.
No one can argue against the fact that reading the handbook, or any other webpage for that matter, in colour, with the layout originally intended is far nicer/easier than trying to read the same page in a text based web browser.
If you don't want a GUI or can't run one as heavy as Gnome then DON'T USE THE LIVECD!

All in all, i like the Live CD and would like to see it develop into a more all-around tool.

aidanjt · Post by **aidanjt** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:07 am

dmartinsca wrote:
You can still download a minimal install cd for gentoo 2006.0, just like previous versions.

I think the entire reason for the livecd and graphical installer is to speed up the install process, not to make it easier.

No one can argue against the fact that reading the handbook, or any other webpage for that matter, in colour, with the layout originally intended is far nicer/easier than trying to read the same page in a text based web browser.

If you don't want a GUI or can't run one as heavy as Gnome then DON'T USE THE LIVECD!
All in all, i like the Live CD and would like to see it develop into a more all-around tool.

I agree, a graphical enviroment is much easier to work on even a manual install, I welcome the installer livecd even if i don't use the installer script myself. It doesn't mean good bye CLI, you still have bash at hand to do everything you did in console only, except with the advantages of X.

truekaiser · Post by **truekaiser** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:47 am

dmartinsca wrote:

I think the entire reason for the livecd and graphical installer is to speed up the install process, not to make it easier.

i don't think that comment is based on reality.
it is far faster to install on one machine and copy the install to the other machine where you modify the kernel for the hardware using the minimal cd*. or just clone the hard drive if the hardware is identical. rather then use this.
it's a solution in search of a problem or at worst a solution to a misconcived problem.

*yes i know you can't do this between differnt archs x86 and sparc for example

bjacobt · Post by **bjacobt** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:48 am

AFter 3 days on installing gentoo 2006. I have decided to go back with 2005.1.

Gentoo 2006.0 sucks, it does not work. and it too slow. After compiling the whole system, my computer was slow and i am having tonnes of errors.

kohno · Post by **kohno** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:40 am

bjacobt wrote:AFter 3 days on installing gentoo 2006. I have decided to go back with 2005.1.

Gentoo 2006.0 sucks, it does not work. and it too slow. After compiling the whole system, my computer was slow and i am having tonnes of errors.

My 2006.0 works just fine. Did you install it the traditional way?

Dr.Black.85 · Post by **Dr.Black.85** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:28 pm

kohno wrote:My 2006.0 works just fine. Did you install it the traditional way?

After a small discussion with my professor who had tried the LiveCD I decided to download the minimal CD and do it by the good old fashion way. However I have no way to try it yet since I'm waiting for new components to arrive and the laptop I'm working on is waiting for finishing complaint due to it's permanent quality issues (don't want to see anything with ACER label on it ever again

) so it's not worth it.

wolfbite_aus · Post by **wolfbite_aus** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:58 am

Installer sucks!!
(apoligesy if I missed something

Manual install works fine
but I dabble alot with differnt configurations (none of which has ever worked with the gentoo installer)
seems to hang at either the install packages or the partitioning spots (esp the partitioning)

have an
amd64x2 3800+
asrock 939 dual-sata,
2G mem,
2 80hd, 2 200 sata, 1 250 sata2,
6800gt, 7300gs, (yes both cards running with 3 monitors )
game theater sound (still going strong)
(and yes I dual boot XP)

I have tried installing to different drives in different configurations

for the record, used anacoda, vlos, kororaa installers (except new one) and they all worked a treat

only reason for not sticking with them is newer kernel required for various hardware (might be about time I check how I can use the old installers(but like all things, finding the time).

for me the requirement is to get A gentoo system up and quick THEN just update and add
rating for speed to get up and running 3/10
rating for adding software (without a ebuild) 9.8/10

the other distro's quick to get up 7/10 (give or take)
adding other software not of that distro (5/10) or a few more minuses

damn, you get the idea

Pablo_Escobar · Post by **Pablo_Escobar** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:38 am

I on the other hand must say that GTK installer was a blessing for me.
It worked almost without a hitch (some problems setting up user account - nothing useradd won't fix

).
I'd preffer to spend 2 h at GTK installer with GRP, and then to move on with configuration of the system while working comortably within X and my beloved Gnome

Hats off to all the dev for this installer, which saved a lot of my time.

chrismortimore · Post by **chrismortimore** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:43 am

I tried the LiveCD installer under VMware and it worked a treat. Then I tried it on my laptop, and it borked quite spectacularly (I think it was a framebuffer issue, this machine is a bit flakey). In the end, I just used the minimal CD. Managed to do a stage3 then full update then installation of my desktop apps (xorg, KDE, openoffice, blah blah blah) in about 26 hours. Thought that was pretty good going given my hardware... Anyway, thoughts on the graphical installer:

I don't like gnome
There are not enough GRPs. They say Gentoo is about choice, and only provide a GRP for Gnome (I think, it was a while ago I used it). Ideally, they should provide a GRP for each major desktop environment (Gnome, KDE, Fluxbox, Xfce4, etc) and let people choose the one they want, rather than either force them to do a fast install with Gnome and replace it or do an install without a desktop environment and emerge it later. I'm not talking about a GRP of the full environment, just the base stuff (like for KDE: kdebase-startkde, kicker, etc).
It seemed noticably slower at doing things than doing it manually.
I like command line. I'll probably never use the graphical installer myself, but I can see that it is a good thing for lazy/inexperienced people

runningwithscissors · Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

I haven't used the live CD as the amd64 version does not have one. However, I never do those stage 1 installs.

Reasons include:
1. dial up connection
2. Modest hardware (I usually never compile anything over 90-100MB)
3. And I haven't the patience

The base system binaries with a kernel compile does me just fine.

I am no expert at linux but I had tried redhat and an obscure slack based distribution called college linux before I put gentoo on my machine. On redhat, which I tried back in 1999, I almost got everything working except my modem (a proper serial modem at that). And no internet means no help. I still stuck with redhat for a year though, after which windows and its user files started getting too big to accomodate linux on the disk anymore. After that, for a few years I didn't really work that much with computers, until early 2005. Later, I read over the internet that Gentoo Linux had this long-winded install that familiarises you with the working of linux. So I installed the 2005.1 release on my x86 machine, it worked, ran everything, and impressed me. So when I got a new box, the first thing I did was put 2006.0 on download! And it has been working fantastically as well.

chrismortimore · Post by **chrismortimore** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:40 am

runningwithscissors wrote:2. Modest hardware (I usually never compile anything over 90-100MB)

You run amd64 and say modest hardware? Guess we have differing opinions of modest, my Sempron (socket A 2500+. Yup, I still use socket A) quite happily chuggs away compiling stuff and it doesn't take that long, and its pretty slow compared to the slowest amd64 I've ever found (which is a socket 754 2800+).

NTT · Post by **NTT** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:43 am

chrismortimore wrote:
runningwithscissors wrote:2. Modest hardware (I usually never compile anything over 90-100MB)
You run amd64 and say modest hardware? Guess we have differing opinions of modest, my Sempron (socket A 2500+. Yup, I still use socket A) quite happily chuggs away compiling stuff and it doesn't take that long, and its pretty slow compared to the slowest amd64 I've ever found (which is a socket 754 2800+).

My computer is even 1.6Ghz Pentium4, and I dont think its slow, and have compiled everything (Stage1) from source in my Gentoo setup..

runningwithscissors · Thu May 04, 2006 12:04 pm

chrismortimore wrote:You run amd64 and say modest hardware? Guess we have differing opinions of modest, my Sempron (socket A 2500+. Yup, I still use socket A) quite happily chuggs away compiling stuff and it doesn't take that long, and its pretty slow compared to the slowest amd64 I've ever found (which is a socket 754 2800+).

NTT wrote: My computer is even 1.6Ghz Pentium4, and I dont think its slow, and have compiled everything (Stage1) from source in my Gentoo setup..

On the amd machine I am a little more adventurous with the compiling, though it is only an Athlon processor. Its got decent RAM (2 GB) But the x86 machine never finished compiling openoffice.org in 3 attempts, all of which were in excess of 14 hrs. That was before I discovered caching, by the way. Anyway, I hardly ever download large packages, except the installation CDs (dial-up, you know), so almost everything is compiled except for a few packages like openoffice.org and the userland utilities that came with the stage 3 files. And I keep the distfiles directory safe. In fact, the /home /var and /usr directories are on different partitions so that I an do a quick reinstall if I ever need to. Like recently, when KDE and GNOME became unusable and wouldn't work properly even after a recompile or even after an Xorg recompile.

slycordinator · Post by **slycordinator** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:15 pm

bjacobt wrote:I know what I am talking about, and emerge -e system does not work for some reason, and keeps doing it from the begining all the time which is a total waste of my time.

Code: Select all

--emptytree (-e short option)
              Virtually tweaks the tree of installed packages to contain
              nothing. This is great to use together with --pretend. This makes
              it possible for developers to get a complete overview of the
              complete dependency tree of a certain package.

Perhaps you should first understand the "-e" option before complaining? The "-e" option is specifically for either seeing the complete dependency tree or to make sure that the complete dependency tree is installed.

If you want it to pick up where it left off perhaps you should look at the "--resume" option. And you can combine that with the "--skipfirst" option if the first item is failing everytime.

wolfbite_aus · Post by **wolfbite_aus** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:03 am

I think we can presume from all the successful and unsuccessful installs
that its starting to look like its related to what hardware your using

there must be enough people out there, that know what their doing, but the installer falls over no matter what.
and others where it just works.

newer hardware verses older hardware?

any ideas on when next version of installer ready to try?

chrismortimore · Post by **chrismortimore** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:11 am

runningwithscissors wrote:On the amd machine I am a little more adventurous with the compiling, though it is only an Athlon processor. Its got decent RAM (2 GB) But the x86 machine never finished compiling openoffice.org in 3 attempts, all of which were in excess of 14 hrs. That was before I discovered caching, by the way. Anyway, I hardly ever download large packages, except the installation CDs (dial-up, you know), so almost everything is compiled except for a few packages like openoffice.org and the userland utilities that came with the stage 3 files. And I keep the distfiles directory safe. In fact, the /home /var and /usr directories are on different partitions so that I an do a quick reinstall if I ever need to. Like recently, when KDE and GNOME became unusable and wouldn't work properly even after a recompile or even after an Xorg recompile.

Ah ha, you have two machines? distcc is your friend, I use it when I compile stuff for my laptop. Although if stuff randomly stops working sounds like either your hard drive is breaking and is corrupting your data or your CPU is knackered and not processing thing correctly...

NTT · Post by **NTT** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:23 am

runningwithscissors wrote:Like recently, when KDE and GNOME became unusable and wouldn't work properly even after a recompile or even after an Xorg recompile.

Also, take care with etc-update - It tends to overwrite your config files if you dont look carefully. I tried dispatch-conf once, but it gave me diff outputs which i find totally human unreadable personally. So I got scared off by that, and still use etc-update (option "-3" - ask when to overwrite).

runningwithscissors · Fri May 05, 2006 11:26 am

distcc is your friend, I use it when I compile stuff for my laptop.

I didn't know about distcc back then

Now, however, I use it all the time.

NTT wrote:
runningwithscissors wrote:Like recently, when KDE and GNOME became unusable and wouldn't work properly even after a recompile or even after an Xorg recompile.
Also, take care with etc-update - It tends to overwrite your config files if you dont look carefully. I tried dispatch-conf once, but it gave me diff outputs which i find totally human unreadable personally. So I got scared off by that, and still use etc-update (option "-3" - ask when to overwrite).

I hadn't done an etc-update before KDE and GNOME were hosed. They were working fine and suddenly one day they started taking too long to start up (10 minutes to load the dektop). TWM was working fine (so there weren't any problems with X). I had even made a post about on this forum. Unfortunately, I failed to find an answer.

I may be a novice, but I definitely do not do things blindly and without reading up about them

And we are drifting away from the topic.

clickety · Post by **clickety** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:10 pm

I tried to install Gentoo with the 2006 LiveCD yesterday and that didn't really work.
The GUI froze for no apparent reason. I tried using the "nox" version, but that didn't work either.
So i just used my old Gentoo 2004.3 universal cd with a 2006 stage3 package.
Although the installer might be a nice idea, but i think that the whole point of Gentoo is to do stuff manually.

chrismortimore · Post by **chrismortimore** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:58 pm

clickety wrote:Although the installer might be a nice idea, but i think that the whole point of Gentoo is to do stuff manually.

I thought the whole point of Gentoo is you have the choice to do everything manually

clickety · Post by **clickety** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:04 pm

chrismortimore wrote:I thought the whole point of Gentoo is you have the choice to do everything manually

Yes you are right.

leiaz · Post by **leiaz** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:26 am

I reinstalled with with a liveCD yesterday (livecd-amd64-installer-2006.0). I didn't use the installer though, but just because I don't like installers very much : i'm always afraid of misunderstanding options and chosing the one which will erase all my partitions

But i liked being able to browse the web, watch films, chat on msn... while installing

If there hadn't been a gentoo livecd i would have installed from a knoppix or kororaa.

The only tool I missed was a GUI for parted, or is there one I didn't find ?