Does gentoo need an oil change?

[NeoCORE]

Hey all,

I have been a user of linux off and on for the past few years, but never have I bit the bullet and just installed it on my system... until now

I haven't had linux on my system long enough to comment on this... so I thought I would ask you lot...

I know in windows... that to keep ur system in good shape... you need to perform an "oil change" (in other words... wipe and reinstall) at least every 3 months... to get good performance...

I was wondering if this is the same for gentoo (I am not asking this as linux as a whole... as I would imagine that it is also based on the package system used.)

If it's not, please tell me why not... if it is, please tell me what you do to stop it

Cheers for the info

NeoCORE

[pjp]

I've been running on an installation that is over a year old. I haven't noticed anything occurring that would make me think "maybe I need to reinstall".

[cvk]

One of the main reasons why windows becomes so terribly slow after running for a while is the terribly bloated registry that becomes bigger and bigger each time you install an application. Well - I didn't notice any speed decrease, no matter how many files there were in /etc.

cvk

[floam]

Windows gets slower and slower as you install things, registry gets bigger, libraries get olden'ed and such. Doesn't happen in linux, especially not gentoo, since its wipes away old cruft and keeps nothing but the newest versions installed.

[Vancouverite]

I have done a few oil changes of Gentoo... but only to do more empirical testing of different CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS. It's safe to say that if you're reinstalling Gentoo on a regular basis then you're doing something wrong.

[panserg]

Gentoo is "ever-green" OS: the command emerge rsync ; emerge -u --deep world always keeps you in a status equaled to as you would have just installed the system from the latest installation release. The Portage developers promised that in another thread.

[zenlunatic]

I heard some people had problems when updating to 1.4. I hope when 1.5 comes out they're won't be too many problems as far as emerging to 1.5 from 1.4. I have heard some people say that Gentoo changes too much which is why they don't run it (mostly BSD users). Although I find that most BSDer's are too conservative anyway. I don't believe in the idea that older is somehow better, like original UNIX code is supreme. Surely sendmail proves this notion wrong.

[nephros]

With windows, the reason you reinstall is because over time, a lot of cruft and stale files lie around all over the system, often causing a decrease in performance.
This mosly comes from stuff staying in the registry, left-over DLLs (which can get quite large), and crappy installers.
The only choice you have is to reinstall, and the reason for that is that windows by design leaves you absolutely clueless about what is really going on on your computer. (otherwise you could just delete the offending components).

With Linux, the situation is similar with regard to stale files. /etc/ will grow over time regardless of package manegement system used. And there is no way to keep your /home/<user>/.* stuff clean.
But this never decreases performance they way it is on windows. It just takes up some (mostly negligible) amount of HD space. This is because on linux, applications by design do not interfer with others unless you tell them to.

So from my expierience, reinstalling a linux system is mostly done out of the fun of starting with a fresh system, but not because it becomes a necessity.

----
NOTES:
out of fairness I have to say two things:
* carelessly upgrading a RPM-based system can cause *major* annoyances and can even bring a linux system to the brink of being completely unuseable.
* Debians "dpgk purge" does even remove files from /etc (and other places), does help to reduce cruft.

[d3c3it]

Well ive done a few "oil changes" with gentoo but like someone else said i broke everyone reason i had to reinstall it. Right now thou ive not broken anything any its all fine and guess what unlike windows theres daily updates and if you use portage every so often emerge says theres x amount of config files that need updating. when has m$ ever done that? also ive noticed when you emerge -C anything nothing is left behind least from my experience.
i was lead to believe anyway that linux has is a mission critical OS and uptime means everything so having to take days out to "oil change" your server isnt a good option. so back to the answer, no if you dont break anything i gentoo is as fast a year down the line as the first day it was installed:) oh btw if your doing a gentoo install start from stage1 its totally worth it:)

[Mystilleef]

Hello Gents,

Linux' approach to computing is modular and open. In Linux, libraries are dynamically linked eliminating the need for developers to write new libraries for each application.

In Windows, it is against the law for a developer to make use of another developer's library without their consent or most likely a fee. In Windows, more often than not each tool comes with it's own set of libraries and tools that can only be used by the user and the operating system, but not other tools. As result, the whole operating system is just a bunch of duplicate, incompatible and ridiculuous amount of libraries and tools. It is plain horrible.

On the bright side, Linux follows a completely different approach to computing. There is a set of dynamically linked libraries which can and is shared by all tools and applications. As a result, devs can write code to make use of these libraries, without any legal constraints or fear, and even add to the libraries so that other devs can make use of the libraries too. The result is that there aren't any duplicate dlls, all of them are compatitible and things organised.

Modularity: Rather than right every tool on earth for a single application, in linux it wiser to make use of tools already written, again streamlining the size, purpose and objective of developers, with regards to writing tools and apps. In Windows, every developer has to right it's own tools for it's own application. Developers can't share tools with other "non-operating system" tools.

The instances above are just a few reasons why Windows needs an oil change on regular basis than Linux does. I hardly use the "emerge clean" command line. Which reminds I should do one now and see if there is anything that need be cleaned. Linux is a lean mean machine in that bloat is usually cut down by 75% per application as compared to Windows.

It's funny how very few people don't realise these as the glaring difference b/w Windows and Linux, I've used the above to woo quite a few people to start to consider using Linux. That's also why performance wise, Linux will always be faster and more stable. Security is another story all together.

I imagine there are maintanace tools/utilities to make you linux box even more leaner. I'd look into that and return if my search is successful, or someone might beat me to it.

NOTE: Warning, never ever delete you /lib directories. Don't ask me why.

[nephros]

NOTE: Warning, never ever delete you /lib directories. Don't ask me why.

Or, in a misguided attempt to further "streamline" your system, do a "strip /lib/* ; strip /usr/lib/*"!
That way lies madness.

Linux assumes you're smart, so it's easy to do stupid things. Windows assumes you're stupid, therefore makes it hard to do smart things.

[lurid]

Don't forget simple file system performance. Installing and uninstalling programs literally leaves holes in the Windows file system, causing parts of newly installed programs to be spread out across the disk filling in the gaps left behind; aka fragmentation. This seriously effects system performance. FAT was horrible, FAT32 is about the same and NTFS is better - however, they all suck when compared to the linux filesystems that don't fragment (much) and never need to be defragged. I remember the claims that NTFS wouldn't need to be defragged. I also remember defragging my mothers WinXP system with a fragmentation report of 60%.

Issues like this and the above mentioned ones cause Windows to bog down badly after a few months of use. Linux in general is superior to Windows because of these things, but Gentoo is better specifically because of Portage. It makes Windows look like a kiddie toy.

[dolbz]

Linux assumes you're smart, so it's easy to do stupid things. Windows assumes you're stupid, therefore makes it hard to do smart things.

That's the best 'sum it up in a line' explanation I've ever heard. I've had a few oil changes in Linux in my time but these have been my fault and have been a great learning experience. I now have a system that I am completely happy with. I remember when I was using XP regularly for a bit, I had to install IIS and ZoneAlarm and Norton Antivirus in a specific order for them to work together peacefully. It came to a point where I was trying to 'perfectize' my system and was installing from scratch every other night for a couple of weeks to see if I could do things right. I eventually switched completely t olinux and now only use windows for scanning

dolbz

[Jimbow]

[snip] ... please tell me what you do to stop it

Code: Select all

 emerge -C windows
emerge Linux

It looks like we just got another convert.

[Mystilleef]

Hello Gents,

Yes, I failed to mention the file system. For a file system that is relatively new, Reiser makes NTFS look like molten crap. Reiser4, the stable version going to be unveiled next month, is arguably going the be the best file system availabe, at least theoritically. To further mention that it is free, primitive and not as well funded as NTF$ is, should make Microsoft cower in shame. Well, we'll have to wait and see if Longhorn, Microsofts next Operating System, makes a difference.

Which make me wonder what Microsoft actually do in thier R&D department.

Mystilleef

[barlad]

Code: Select all

 I know in windows... that to keep ur system in good shape... you need to perform an "oil change" (in other words... wipe and reinstall) at least every 3 months... to get good performance...

An oil change would be more like a "reboot" here .

Like some previously said, gentoo is so modular and so customizable that you really do not have to worry about it.
A few commands and it looks like you just rebuilt your system. Performance do not come from a fresh install but from tweaking, customization and as a whole, a global understanding of how your system works. I know my system is much faster now I have installed and customized a load of stuff than when I was done installing Xfree for the first time.

Anyway, I don't think Linux as a whole has that problem. The main reason why you need to clean Windows every once and then is because problems stack up from everywhere and you cannot configure anything manually. It's like the domino effect. Something fucks up in some minor program, three weeks later, internet explorer won't launch.
In linux there are, most likely, as many bugs, glitches and fuck-ups, but you solve them "on the fly" and you know what's going on... I think.

[pilla]

If you aren't using oil for the cooling system, there is no need of such a thing

[idl]

There is indeed no need to reinstall Gentoo due to use, but saying that; stale files do collect on your system and they need to be cleaned out.. mainly some old /etc conf dirs for old apps and ~/.* dirs.

[curtis119]

The main reason M$ stuff is really crappy (NTFS and such) is that M$ has NEVER written their own stuff. ALL of M$ programs are things they bought from other companies and slapped the M$ name on.

EX. WinNT and NTFS were purchased from Xerox labs. M$-DOS was stolen from IBM.

[nephros]

If this thread goes further down Microsoft-bashing lane, then this will be my last post here.
Please be mature and keep the thread interesting.

Still, The Microsoft "Hall of Innovation" should provide some reading pleasure to those who don't believe the above post.

PS: i am aware that this post is contradictionary(?) and pointless, but what the hell... :P

PPS: the M$ and Micro$oft spellings have already followed the footsteps of the <blink> tag, so please update your notes.

[splooge]

Microsoft didn't steal MS DOS from IBM =)

IBM went to apple first, and asked for an operating system. Steve Jobs said, "Sorry, I don't have time for you." So then IBM went to Microsoft.

Microsoft didn't have a version of dos like IBM thought they did. They ended up (buying?) getting another operating system called QDOS -- Quick and Dirty Operating System, and in the most ingenious move ever, they didn't resell that OS to IBM. They Licensed it. Everyone who bought an IBM at that time was then forced to purchase a copy (err, license hehe) of MS-DOS.

Think about that. For every PC that IBM sold, Microsoft got further $$$ for an already-developed piece of software.

Capitalist pigs!

[curtis119]

Microsoft didn't steal MS DOS from IBM =)

I know, I was just over-exaggerating. Sorry.

[splooge]

There's a difference between exaggerating and being completely wrong.

But I'll let it slide this time!

[curtis119]

[curtis119]