Dual Monitors, 2 taskbars - does XP do it better?

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NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:33 pm

Hey folks,

Now that cedega is increasing becoming better and better for my gaming... linux has turned from something that I use and tweak actively in work, to hopefully a full, no need for dual boot replacement for windows.

There is just one niggle that windows seems to do better. Currently what I do is run windows with dual view mode... its basically like having 2 desktops. Now, with that I run ultramon, which shows the tasks on the second monitor, and removes them from the taskbar on the first.

With linux, I run 2 X servers, one for each screen (great functionality that nvidia have implmented nicely... 2 x servers, 1 card

) Well, seeing as X is being run twice, I don't have to worry about the taskbar per screen only representing programs on it... seeing as the first X server has no interest in what is on the second. Great

The functionality that is missing though between that and windows is a few wee things.

1) I can't drag windows between screens... as I said, X server 1 does not care or interact with X server 2
2) Firefox, and programs like it, if run on 2 seperate X servers, act exactly as they are suppose to... and that is, think its a second user and session of firefox, and therefore request that another profile is used.

With 1) being the biggest niggle... I just want to throw my windows between screens all I want... 2 is a niggle that can be worked round with a small script that deletes the lock file... though not a pretty solution it works.

I was wondering if any1 knew of an X configuration setup that would work like windows... 2 taskbars, with correct representation of windows per screen... and the ability to throw windows accross from screen to screen.... does XP have a leg up on linux in this area?

NeoCORE

boerKrelis · Post by **boerKrelis** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:21 pm

You need the xinerama extension enabled. Look for an howto somewhere, I'll bet you'll figure it out.

wbreeze · Post by **wbreeze** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:30 pm

exactly

you want something like this in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf:

Code: Select all

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier  "Simple Layout"
    Screen "Screen 2"
    Screen "Screen 1" RightOf "Screen 2"
    InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
    InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

and

Code: Select all

Section "ServerFlags"
  Option "Xinerama" "true"
  ...
  ...
EndSection

check out http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Xinerama-HOWTO/

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:30 pm

as far as I know, xinerama will do the throw between windows no problem... but I don't know any window manager that supports dual taskbars, or identifies tasks that should be in the task bar based on the screen it is viewed on... know what I mean?

wbreeze · Post by **wbreeze** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:33 pm

I've noticed that if you leave out xinerama but still have X configured between two screens that you do get two seperate task bars, the downside is that I don't think you can move windows between monitors anymore (someone correct me... please)

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:43 pm

lol, yeah, thats exactly it

I think I need to take up school in explaining things better...

Thats exactly what I want, 2 taskbars, X thinking its 1 screen so I can move windows between screens and the taskbars automatically updating what tasks it holds based on where I move windows

Vietor · Post by **Vietor** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:47 pm

Is there some reason that you are running two X servers instead of having a single X desktop span both monitors? If there is no piece of functionality that you are explicitly gaining by running two servers you might want to consider looking into just running one. I've a Nvidia card and two monitors and can think of very few thing that would benifit from running an instance of X on each of them.

I suppose that the desire to have two taskbars would be problematic, but you might also consider that if you are using the taskbar extensivly then you are probably not using virtual desktops enough

aNtHrAx323 · Post by **aNtHrAx323** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:02 pm

wbreeze wrote:I've noticed that if you leave out xinerama but still have X configured between two screens that you do get two seperate task bars, the downside is that I don't think you can move windows between monitors anymore (someone correct me... please)

No, you're right. Without Xinerama, it effectively has two totally isolated X sessions running off the same server.

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:07 pm

hmm... thats a good point... windows mentality of needing a nice taskbar to represent everything... should probably be replaced by a linux mentality to use virtual desktops and therefore a short alt-tab list...

Suprised though that linux is lacking this functionality... I mean, its coded and designed by/with power users in mind, therefore with a lot more users in that group having multiple monitors... strange that no WM developers thought that it would be a nice to have feature as well

thought this was a feature that I didn't have knowledge of, rather than one that was not implemented.

Vietor · Post by **Vietor** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:37 pm

NeoCORE wrote:Suprised though that linux is lacking this functionality... I mean, its coded and designed by/with power users in mind, therefore with a lot more users in that group having multiple monitors... strange that no WM developers thought that it would be a nice to have feature as well thought this was a feature that I didn't have knowledge of, rather than one that was not implemented.

I think it's more a result of how things have been done then an intentional oversight (for all the sense "intentional oversight" makes. . ). The multiple monitor portion of thigns is handled at a elvel below that of the WM. The WM is merely presented with a root window that has some dimensions (say 3200x1200 in the case of a dual monitor setup) and it works with that. I would say that the lack of 'functionality' is more the result of a well enforced abstraction then anything else.

However as it is your desktop it should look the way you want it to. Personally between a combination of virtual destops and window tabing I almost never use the taskbar.

Something you might want to consider with regard to getting more into the 'virtual desktops' thing is to bind it to a good hotkey. alt+tab for moving between windows on a desktop and win+tab for moving between desktops for example.

But really, whatever helps you get work done in the most efficiant manner, and if that's monitor sensative taskbars then your probably out of luck as far as I know with regard to a single X server.

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:06 am

I suppose from a coding perspective designers may never come across it or thought of it as a feature... but although I agree your definition of how things have been coded, with that in mind, certainly it should be easy to code... especially in something like KDE where it aspires to be as feature rich/bloated as windows (depending on your perspective)

A simple varible... dual_desktop=1 means that windows with origins after width/2 should be represented on taskbar 2... Just a thought... for those coming from windows...

I agree with your methodology of desktop navigation though... it should be how I teach myself to switch windows, afterall, the mouse should be considered secondary to the keyboard, as it takes time to lift your hand from keyboard to mouse.

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:08 am

btw, thanks for the tip in using the win key to switch desktop... a use I wouldn't have thought of

wbreeze · Post by **wbreeze** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:36 am

I was searching on kde.org and found this criptic little snippet:

http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase ... iew=markup

<kcfgfile name="ktaskbarrc"/>

<group name="General">
<entry key="ShowAllWindows" type="Bool" >
<default>true</default>
<label>Show windows from all desktops</label>
<whatsthis>Turning this option off will cause the taskbar to display <b>only</b> the windows on the current desktop. \n\nBy default, this option is selected and all windows are shown.</whatsthis>
</entry>
<entry key="ShowOnlyIconified" type="Bool" >
<default>false</default>
<label>Show only minimized windows</label>
<whatsthis>Select this option if you want the taskbar to display <b>only</b> minimized windows. \n\nBy default, this option is not selected and the taskbar will show all windows.</whatsthis>
</entry>
<entry key="GroupTasks" type="Enum" >
<choices>
<choice name="GroupNever">

Im at home right now with no dual monitor setup, so maybe someone else could give this a try?

NeoCORE · Post by **NeoCORE** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:56 am

Not too sure if this is relevant... seems to refer to the ability to only show minimised windows in the task bar... so that ones currently restored do no appear...?

metalhedd · Post by **metalhedd** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:24 pm

I dont have a dual monitor setup, but I use multiple desktops with KDE and each desktop only shows its own windows. its not a fancy hack, it's an option when you right click on the panel and go to 'configure panels' i imagine if kde and xinerama play nicely this would be very easy to do with 2 monitors.

I can't move the windows between desktops just by draggin them, but I can right click->to Desktop->1 or 2 on any window which is just as easy.

tuxdaemon · Post by **tuxdaemon** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:02 pm

Can XP do this:

http://imagebucket.shadowdev.org/?view=28&D=0:0

didn't think so.

Xinerama + Xorg + Gentoo + OS X + xdmx over network.

Multiple archs obviously.

Enable xinerama, go to kde screen settings and enable the extension for kde for the bar. Or run two x11's. I dont think you can simply run two and expect the screens to seemlessly go over, but thats what xdmx is for.