A proposal for Recommended Packages (PROD & PROS)

[Sir No]

EDIT: I created a page in Gentoo Wiki for this proposal. I'd like to encourage all interested users to post their ideas in this thread or enhance the Wiki page themselves. As I will be getting my new laptop soon (with AMD64 Turion processor), I'm planning to synchronously update Wiki with my tested-in-fire experience.


Hello Gentoo users, devs & all your pets

Today one thing really struck me. Even though Gentoo has its Handbook which is of finest quality, it later leaves all the newcomers on their own. I mean, if one is a newbee to Linux and doesn't have any clues about what to emerge after system, kde and firefox, how can one get to know the best and the greatest Linux applications?

In other words I would like to open discussion on the following idea of my own:

Packages Recommended fOr Destop
(PROD / PRO-Desktop)

and

Packages Recommended fOr Server
(PROS / PRO-Server)

"PRO" of course stands for "professional"

I know there are many happy Gentoo users, who have its own set of "the-best-of" applications. I know there are many packages to choose from. But selecting them straight from Portage tree is troublesome for someone not knowing what to look for. I just would like to hear your opinions on what applications / packages you think one should emerge and how to configure them to have The Best, Gentoo Driven, Professional Desktop Installation (TM) and Professional Server Installation (TM).


I can identify some needs for a typical desktop installation, just for the ordinary user like me:

* fast and optimized base system (which is Gentoo, of course)
* compatibility with most 32-bit applications (because I run on amd64)
* autodetection of devices, if possible
* autoconfiguration of network cards, having DHCP as a default
* reconnecting network cards properly if cable unplugged and replugged
* perfect USB handling
* hotplugging and automounting of USB devices (e.g. pen drive)
* automounting for CDs and DVDs
* best multimedia experience: sound drivers, audio & video codecs
* apps for playing DVD movies
* printing support, easy adding printers, both local & networked
* easy sharing of files and printers
* burning CDs and DVDs
* CD-ripping and sound encoding
* support for 3D graphics cards
* hints for gaming (yes, you knew it was coming )
* text processing utilities
* recommendations for office suits
* system localization

For programmers also:
* recommendations for compilers, interpreters and libs + docs
* recommendations for IDEs for different languages / environments

For server I don't have that amount of experience yet, as I did only some installations involving Java+Tomcat and Apache+MySQL+PHP.
So I would really love to hear a voice of server veterans here!

And let's not forget notebook users, too! I really can't recommend here anything, because I'll be getting my first notebook next week


This is possibly a big effort, but that shouldn't stop anyone from proposing its own set of categories or packages. I mean, if this could evolve into some kind of official or semi-official recommendation, all new users would at least have a vision of what Recommended Gentoo Desktop could look like.

Quite a bit of other distributions have some notion of installing predefined set of applications for different needs, or even 'all' applications they provide. I know about and I love the flexibility (and power!) that Gentoo gives to the end user. But if one knows at least some milestone points, he or she will more quickly get to the destination. Which in this case is a fully working, beautiful desktop for fast, power-user machine.


The target is The Best Desktop Experience and Usability(TM).
Now let the discussion begin.

_____
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Sir Isaac Newton

[Gherald]

Among other preexisting threads, this one would be a good place to start compiling a list from.

I highly recommend using a wiki to actually store the list (and use this thread for discussion, of course)

Many packages can be made much nicer or more useful just by changing some config settings, so at some point including links to a sample config file (where appropriate) might be nice.

[Sir No]

Among other preexisting threads, this one would be a good place to start compiling a list from.

I highly recommend using a wiki to actually store the list (and use this thread for discussion, of course)

Big thanks for the ideas, sire! I was thinking about wiki too... It's very nice you already proposed an entry I'm gonna use it for sure!

Many packages can be made much nicer or more useful just by changing some config settings, so at some point including links to a sample config file (where appropriate) might be nice.

You're pefectly, positively right. I'll look into it.

[ecoffey]

For stuff like 'autodetection of devices', and 'perfect USB handling' it involves a lot more then a simple emerge command, that and there are already docs avaible for it. So maybe linking to those.

As for 'autodetection of devices' apart from installing and setting up udev, HAL is pretty fun too

[shash]

Well, let me try to fill in some of your requirements...

* fast and optimized base system (which is Gentoo, of course)

D'oh!

* compatibility with most 32-bit applications (because I run on amd64)

No idea...

* autodetection of devices, if possible

Since I compile only required parts of the kernel, I don't have a great idea of what could be done, but I guess genkernel (much as I hate it) is of use here - Also, Kudzu is in portage, if that helps anyone.

* autoconfiguration of network cards, having DHCP as a default

DHCP is in portage.

* reconnecting network cards properly if cable unplugged and replugged

Never had a problem with this... It works out of the box for me.

* perfect USB handling

Depends on what you mean by "perfect". Drivers for some devices may not be present. I can use most cameras, flash devices and so on. Also, modems based on the Globespan chipset are supported in portage. I don't know about printers, but they seem to be supported.

* hotplugging and automounting of USB devices (e.g. pen drive)
* automounting for CDs and DVDs

Get DBUS, Hal and IVMan. That takes care of all of the above (and floppies too, but I haven't tried them yet)

* best multimedia experience: sound drivers, audio & video codecs
* apps for playing DVD movies

Alsa, MPlayer, Xine, Amarok, XMMS. For codecs, add them to your use flags. There's a wide variety of codecs available for the four players above. Also, you might be interested in GStreamer and/or aRTs (if you use KDE).

* printing support, easy adding printers, both local & networked
* easy sharing of files and printers

You'll need Cups, obviously. Apart from that, depends on what DE you choose. In KDE, I know that there's a Cups interface in the control center. No idea about Gnome, though.

* burning CDs and DVDs

K3B. Is there any other?

* CD-ripping and sound encoding

The audiocd KIOSlave works amazingly well for ripping. I have no idea about encoding things not from CD, except that you'll normally use mp3enc, oggenc, mp32ogg or something of the sort from console. No idea of any GUI apps.

* support for 3D graphics cards

Depending on your card, I guess there shouldn't be a real problem.

* hints for gaming (yes, you knew it was coming )

No idea. I'm no gamer.

* text processing utilities

Depends on what you mean by text processing. We've got a wide selection of flavours, all the way from ed to OpenOffice!

* recommendations for office suits

- OpenOffice is a something of a requirement, even if you don't use it too often, since some odd M$ junk files don't open properly with other suites.
- Depending on your DE, Gnome office or KOffice. Of the two, KOffice is more integrated and mature, so that's what I recommend usually. But this is personal taste.

* system localization

No idea what you mean by that.

For programmers also:
* recommendations for compilers, interpreters and libs + docs

GCC is usually mostly enough for most compiling needs. Then, it depends on your language.

For C++, I find that SGI's STL docs are great. Also, the KDELibs API documentation and Qt documentation are useful. To get these, have "doc" in your use flags for kdelibs and qt.

Code: Select all

echo "kde-base/kdelibs doc" >> /etc/portage/package.use
echo "x11-libs/qt doc" >> /etc/portage/package.use

Other useful resources can be found in the app-doc category of portage.

Code: Select all

NaturalDocs      ebook-bonobo      ebook-glibc       halibut                linuxfromscratch-text
abs-guide        ebook-cpp         ebook-gtk         howto-html             metadata.xml
afsdoc           ebook-cvs         ebook-libglade    howto-html-single      mkdoxy
autobook         ebook-diff        ebook-libgnome    howto-pdf              php-docs
chmlib           ebook-find        ebook-libgnomeui  howto-ps               phrack
daemontools-man  ebook-flex        ebook-make        howto-text             phrack-all
djbdns-man       ebook-g77         ebook-pango       jargon                 quanta-docs
doc++            ebook-gawk        ebook-pygtk       linkers-and-loaders    root-docs
dox              ebook-gcc         ebook-python      linux-device-drivers   selfhtml
doxygen          ebook-gconf       ebook-sed         linux-gazette          selflinux
ebook-autoconf   ebook-gdk         ebook-zvt         linux-gazette-all      single-unix-specification
ebook-automake   ebook-gdk-pixbuf  edox-data         linux-gazette-base     ucspi-tcp-man
ebook-binutils   ebook-ggad        gimp-user-manual  linuxfromscratch-html  vilearn

Quite a selection there!

Anyway, the core of what most programmers need, GCC, Perl, Python and the myriad Make utils are all essential to Portage anyway!

* recommendations for IDEs for different languages / environments

Depends on your tastes. I personally prefer using the IDE that was built for that environment. For example, KDevelop is unbeatable for (you guessed it! ) KDE development, Anjuta is perfect for GTK, and for most console or SDL applications, I prefer using Emacs with a whole host of things I lifted from the Emacs Wiki.

Quanta is also good for web development - it's an IDE for HTML, CSS, PHP and Javascript written in Qt and KDELibs. Emacs is also good for web dev, with the addition of the html-mode-deluxe which I got from the Emacs Wiki.

For server I don't have that amount of experience yet, as I did only some installations involving Java+Tomcat and Apache+MySQL+PHP.
So I would really love to hear a voice of server veterans here!

I guess that depends on what server you want: NAT/firewall, web, mail, file,....

Quite a bit of other distributions have some notion of installing predefined set of applications for different needs, or even 'all' applications they provide. I know about and I love the flexibility (and power!) that Gentoo gives to the end user. But if one knows at least some milestone points, he or she will more quickly get to the destination. Which in this case is a fully working, beautiful desktop for fast, power-user machine.

And with Gentoo, it would be hints to users rather than a law laid down by the Holy Developers, Guardians of the Distro!

The target is The Best Desktop Experience(TM). Now let the discussion begin.

Actually, make that "Best Desktop Experience and Usability" and we get somewhere even better!

[griffinme]

What is the difference between openoffice and openoffice-ximian? I see both listed in portage.

This sounds like an excellant idea.

[Gherald]

What is the difference between openoffice and openoffice-ximian?

The later has pretty icons, and tends to be slightly out of date.

[Sir No]

Ok, people. It's time to start!
My new notebook arrived and now I'm ready to install Gentoo on it. The Right Way.
That's right! Full-blown desktop experience.

Gentoo on desktop shouldn't be any worse than Ubuntu.
We can even do better!!!

You can expect a stream of updates to this thread and to wiki page as well. Of course, you know how much time building a Gentoo from scratch can take... So, please be patient.

First I'm going to study what settings (especially USE flags) apply to Stage 1/3 Installation for Gentoo 2005.0 process.
Updates to be expected in several hours (or maybe a day, or even two)..........

[Sir No]

Ok. I'm proceeding with Stage 1 NPTL on Stage 3. Very interesting.

I've downloaded stage3-athlon-xp and the latest portage snapshot. Partitioning was already done. Now swap has been created. Partitions have been mounted. The same goes for /proc. I think I'm ready.

I modified /etc/make.conf and after reading this post on the forums I decided to put only one flag there:

Code: Select all

USE="nptl"

I'll specify other flags after I get a working base system.

Now I'm going to enable gcc-3.4.3 in the stable branch and then to rebuild the toolkit. Wish me good luck

[Sir No]

Well, first step:

Code: Select all

emerge gcc-config glibc binutils gcc

went fine.

I decided to continue with -O3 only:

Code: Select all

CFLAGS="-O3 -march=athlon-xp -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"

All I have to do now is to switch compiler to gcc-3.4.3 and rebuild the system.
I'll just pick some more USE flags before that

[Sir No]

Ok, no additional USE flags at this point. Just rebuilding the system toolkit.

After that I'll set additional USE flags before executing emerge -e system.

Then I'll go to configuring and compiling kernel, setting fstab, configuring services, etc.
This will include alsa and usb utilities, as the goal is to have a full support for these.
Finally, I'm going to document all the involved packages on the wiki.

At this point I hope to have a base system with a lot of potential. So, the enhancement process
in order to get "The Best Destop Experience and Usability" goal can begin. Thi will include
configuring xorg, kde and gnome and emerging additional packages (e.g. multimedia,
usb, printing, cdrw, dvd, and similar packages.)


Edit:
There are already some valuable additions on the wiki page.
Thanks a lot guys! Whoever you are...