Gentoo for Idiots...I need it!

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MartyParish · Post by **MartyParish** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:07 pm

Please point me to the lamens guide for Gentoo usage. Everything I come accross assumes I am a Linux expert. I am a mere novice!

It took me days just to install and now that I finally have it working, I can't even figure out how to start a program!

I think the docs need to be dumbed down a bit for us n00bs.

wescott · Post by **wescott** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:14 pm

You may want to check the websites linked to the Gentoo distro in distrowatch.com... they provide different viewpoints and between them you will gain a better understanding of using gentoo.

oumpah-pah · Post by **oumpah-pah** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:15 pm

Your problem is not gentoo-related. So you can google around or buy some book for linux newbies, and then I'm sure you will fully understand the docs.

orionrobots · Post by **orionrobots** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:37 pm

Every great journey starts with a first step - and that is what you have taken.

Now there really is a book "Linux for Dummies" which may help.

If you are at the moment stuck in a command line, and would like a GUI - I suggest you try this - log in as root, then type

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/etc/init.d/xdm start

If you need help on a subject, try typing

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apropos <subject>

, and your computer will list all manual pages relating to installed packages or libraries for that subject.

Type

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man <commandname>

to get manual help on a command anywhere. Unless it is pre-installed and pre-configured, or a wizard based distribution (like Redhat,or Mandrake), be prepared to do a lot of manual reading to get there.

If you have got through the gentoo install guide, you should be able to emerge some helper applications like webmin - which gives you a browser interface to your configuration on port 10000.

If you have specific questions -like "What package does such & such" or "This does not work, why?" - then thats is exactly what this forum is designed for.

MartyParish · Post by **MartyParish** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:40 pm

Thanks for the replies. Wescott, I started looking around the site and immediately came upon this:

Gentoo Linux is a versatile and fast, completely free Linux distribution geared towards developers and network professionals.

Hmm...I suppose I started with the wrong 'flavor' eh? Oh well, I'm gonna roll with it now since it's already installed. Thanks again for the ref.

oumpah-pah

Yes, I've been Googling my fingers off, trust me. That's the problem, I have to traverse the web just to get a basic understanding of this OS, whereas I sat down and learned Winows very quickly, without "buying a book"(I'm no M$ advocate either). I surely am not trying to start some MS vs Linux debate. I just wish it was a bit more friendly to new users.

MartyParish · Post by **MartyParish** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:55 pm

orionrobots,

I appreciate the tips you have givin me.

Every great journey starts with a first step - and that is what you have taken.

Whew! You said that right. I feel like a baby learning to crawl

Other Things Gentoo
Still need help and your question doesn't fit in the above forums? Here is your last bastion of hope.

That's why I posted in this forum. Sorry to sound so negative. I'm just frustrated.

Thanks again

Marty

Lemma · Post by **Lemma** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:59 pm

Gentoo may not be that best distro to start with; it is the best one (together with Arch and a few like it) if you want to to from intermidiate to expert though

.

If you stick with it, you'll probably learn to use linux in a shorter time but it is a steep climb. In a month, you'll be sweaty but the view is wonderfull

DerekLucas · Post by **DerekLucas** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:08 pm

Marty,
Welcome to Gentoo, and also GNU/Linux!
For someone new to GNU/Linux, you definitly chose the wrong "flavor" (or distribution) but there's always got to be a start! Generally I would suggest starting with Mandrake or Red Hat, but since you're already installed, I'd suggest installing X (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml) and Gnome (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gnome-config.xml) (or KDE if that's your preference. (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/kde-config.xml))

From there, check out The Gentoo Linux Documentation (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml) and the Gentoo Wiki (http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/) for info on installing the features that you need.

The Forums are also a great resource!

Enjoy the ride!

- derek

MartyParish · Post by **MartyParish** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:21 pm

Lemma and DerekLucas,

Thanks for the welcome and words of encouragement!

I did read that Gentoo wasn't the best to start with but I figured I was a fast learner, so what the heck. I had no idea!

I have gotten through the xorg part and I believe I have Gnome. I have managed to get xorg open, or some window manager. It just opened up a few windows which still have command line stuff.

Q: Is there an online guide to the basics? ie. opening and using different apps.

Thanks everyone. I DO appreciate it!

Arker · Post by **Arker** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:34 pm

The most difficult part is unlearning what you have learned from Windows. Or at least learning to not try to apply that knowledge to Linux.

~djc

suck_ma_penguin · Post by **suck_ma_penguin** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:54 pm

Actually I'd say that gentoo is a very good distro to start with: you aren't going to be molly-coddled by any swanky GUIs or press-ganged into default options. And none of you have mentioned http://www.tldp.org. There is an "Absolute Basics" guide on there (http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html) geared towards redhat, but most of the info applies to linux in general. I would recommend tldp and these forums as your documentation: search for any problem in the forums, and it will probably have been solved before

.
After having grasped the basics of linux, you should mug up on portage and emerge, your best friends EVER in gentoo linux. For starters, read that guide then try:

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man ls
man less
man portage
man emerge
emerge help | less

Trevoke · Post by **Trevoke** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:20 pm

MartyParish wrote:Lemma and DerekLucas,

Thanks for the welcome and words of encouragement!

I did read that Gentoo wasn't the best to start with but I figured I was a fast learner, so what the heck. I had no idea!

I have gotten through the xorg part and I believe I have Gnome. I have managed to get xorg open, or some window manager. It just opened up a few windows which still have command line stuff.

Q: Is there an online guide to the basics? ie. opening and using different apps.

Thanks everyone. I DO appreciate it!

What you have started is TWM. When you get there, you can type (I think) gnomesession and that should open up GNOME For you.

Cryofix · Post by **Cryofix** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:23 pm

Marty

what you may need to do is install an X server now, from my understanding you are stuck just a command prompt and there is nothing there.

first type

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emerge pciutils

this will emerge a set of tools that will list your hardware for you, after you emerge it just type

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lspci

this will show you your hardware with a brief overview, you will want to write down what video card you have installed in your machine.

next youll want emerge your X server and you have 2 choices here, either XFree86 or Xorg, for now I recommend you go with Xorg by typing

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emerge xorg-x11

after the installation is complete you will need to configure your new Xserver so I recommend you search for info on howto configure your video card with Xorg Xserver.

if you get up to this part your in good shape HINT CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE is your friend, sometime when you start an xserver with the wrong parameters the server may hang up or flicker your screen but nothing more, use the ctrl alt backspace keys to kill your Xserver then edit your config file and try again.

after you have your Xserver up and running you will want to use a "client" or another word(s) for it is desktop environment, as an above post mentions KDE or Gnome will be sufficent for this and this will give you a graphical interface with tons of tools, games and apps to get you started.

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emerge kde

at this point go find something to do or continue to read up on how to get the X environment working on Gentoo, becasue this will take about 2 days of compile time depending on you proc speed, there is an alternative called the USE command wich works with emerge but will still take a long time.

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USE="bindist" emerge kde

if you have read the install guide then you will know how to get the binary distribution (bindist) of the KDE packages to install

I hope this helps and dosent confuse you more than you may already be.

Clue-less · Post by **Clue-less** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:33 pm

General Linux help:

Learning the command line
The Linux Documentation Project

MartyParish · Post by **MartyParish** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:52 pm

Wow, this thread is turning out to be a saviour for me.

suck_ma_penguin

Thank you kindly, that link is just what I'm after. Still reading it now.

Trevoke

Not sure what TWM is. I think what I have open is X. The window says "xterm" at the top-left. I tried gnomesession but got command not found. Thank you none the lees however.

Cryofix

Yes, I will emerge pciutils. I burned the package cd because I still haven't been able to connect my cable/usb modem to the net

Now I need to locate the syntax to emerge from cdrom again. I already did it once today but forgot.

Hopefully when I get the graphical interface enabled I'll feel more comfortable with it.

Clue-less

Thanks for the links! You guys are awesome for helping me out, especially the way I started the thread out on the whiny side

orionrobots · Post by **orionrobots** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:29 am

MartyParish wrote: Not sure what TWM is. I think what I have open is X. The window says "xterm" at the top-left. I tried gnomesession but got command not found. Thank you none the lees however.

TWM is the "Tiny Window Manager" - a small low resource window manager with the bare minimum. You need somethign with more beef if you are happier with a GUI. To get the "gnomesession" command - you need to emerge gnome. You may as well emerge KDE as well - try them both and see which you are most comfortable with. You will also find that apps you want to run may rely on the libs from another.
I suggest - like above you use the bindist line:

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USE="bindist" emerge gnome kde

Now a peice of advice - instead of starting X with startx, and gnome/kde from the command line there - try the xdm start. This should give you a pretty gui login manager, with a drop down menu to select your preferred DE (Desktop Environment). Nice and easy to experiment with really.

In kde you have a K menu - which is just like a windows start menu, and has a number of apps under it. I dont know gnome as well- but I think it is equally simple.

Dont hesitate to ask if you are looking for specific apps - this community is happy to help, and one of the most helpful and friendly I have come accross - more so than Lugnet - which used to hold the crown for the most friendly place on the net.

General question back to Cryofix - the use bindist flag - does this rely on having install stage CD's - or does this actually grab bins from a server somewhere? IE - would you recommend doing

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USE="bindist" emerge -u kde

on my system. I have not been able to update KDE due to some annoying problem with kdelibs not linking - which no one else has yet seen, or been able to solve.

episode96 · Post by **episode96** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:44 pm

If you can afford the time and effort that it takes, I greatly encourage you to do not give up. Gentoo and GNU/Linux may have a steep learning curve but once you grasp the basics it's very easy to use and to keep it running

Welcome

Lunchy · Post by **Lunchy** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:23 pm

episode96 wrote:If you can afford the time and effort that it takes, I greatly encourage you to do not give up. Gentoo and GNU/Linux may have a steep learning curve but once you grasp the basics it's very easy to use and to keep it running

Welcome

This is SO true. I wasn't totally new to Linux when I started with Gentoo, but it was still tough going. There was blood sweat and tears poured, and sometimes more than a little frustration. But I've been on Gentoo as my main OS now for almost a year, and I can hardly believe how happy I am that I made the switch. Stick with it, you'll be glad you did.

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:58 pm

I think the command is gnome-session, not gnomesession

But, if you type gnome and press tab (probably twice) you should be able to find out through the wonders of command line completion

ciaranm · Post by **ciaranm** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:20 pm

Gentoo is not for dummies. I suggest you get another distro which has you as its target user in mind instead. Then, once you know your way around, come back to Gentoo later. Otherwise you'll just end up with an unjustified bad taste of Linux in general.

Clue-less · Post by **Clue-less** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:54 pm

Gentoo may not be for dummies, but is accessible to anyone who has a better than most handle on dealing with computers. It has decent documentation, Google provides a wealth of knowledge, so anyone with determination and willingness to learn can get Gentoo up and running.

Oh, and one has to become very Zen and learn patience when compiling (or after b0rking your installation) ...

BlackEdder · Post by **BlackEdder** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:50 am

Clue-less wrote:Oh, and one has to become very Zen and learn patience when compiling (or after b0rking your installation) ...

Who needs chinese monks, we have gentoo

orionrobots · Post by **orionrobots** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:30 am

ciaranm wrote:Gentoo is not for dummies. I suggest you get another distro which has you as its target user in mind instead. Then, once you know your way around, come back to Gentoo later. Otherwise you'll just end up with an unjustified bad taste of Linux in general.

Aww - Let him be. While I admit it is not easy - it is a very worthwhile experience, and by the sound of his later responses - he is finding it rewarding. Although it is worth pointing out that the distribution shouldnt be blamed if someone cant figure it out, give non-technical sorts a chance to try before dismissing them as unable.

My opinion on that may change if someone starts spouting pro-ms FUD and screaming about nerdy geeks and evil 70's software, but this guy Marty seems to be quite reasonable - and just needs a bit of support, which we are more than happy to give him. If guys like him can do it, it enhances the forum - his answered questions answer others questions, his success in learning will only encourage people to give it a go.

Right

now I am getting off my soapbox and going back to work...

Cryofix · Post by **Cryofix** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:39 pm

orionrobots,

yes bindist should use either the copied binary dists from cd 2 (packages CD) or if the ebuild contains a binary distro then it will use a binary instead of having to compile.

as for your linking problem I would suggest

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emerge baselayout

or something similar to that command cant remeber if thats correct.

orionrobots · Post by **orionrobots** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:55 pm

Hi cryo
Sorry I didnt update my progress - I fixed it a day ago.

This is not on a new install but one of two or so years pedigree- and I am too lazy to download and burn a new stage two install CD...

However as an odd aside - I blindly tried the bindist flag and it preceeded to download, and build the lib (so bindist use flag didnt seem to have any effect). Annoyingly - it worked then, and I am not sure why. But its all working now. Should have logged my actions - oh well.

Orion

Gentoo for Idiots...I need it!

Gentoo for Idiots...I need it!

First Step