The reason why linux isnt mainstream

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Rydog2987 · Post by **Rydog2987** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:17 am

i have been using gentoo for about a month now and i finally had to reformat my drive and go back to the dark side. I didnt really want to go back to windows but i had to, in four weeks i did nothing but configure my system and still after that i couldnt get somethings i really needed, to work. It took me a week just to install my internet correctly. When people say it is great gentoo doesnt have anything to hold ur hand and walk u through things, i think maybe that is not a good thing, when it takes four weeks to install only the basics of an operating system it is definitely not a good thing. I think someone should come out wih a distro that has the portage system of gentoo, the autodetection, ease of use and compatability of lycoris, the marketing campaign of suse and the philosophy of debian. The distros should band together and make one outstanding distro. Right now the O/S wars are being fought by a group of disorganized group of idealists. It is like microsoft is the union and the linux distros are the confederacy. i am all for being able to make a distrobution of whatever u think should be in a distro, but when there is a little bit of something that is good in different distros and not enough distros that have alot of things that are good about them, it is hard to stick with linux. Maybe i should go with the mac/OSX, but even that is plaugued with horrendious incapadability. To bring my ideas to a point, i think the only way linux is going to go mainstream is if they band together and maybe make a few version of one distro, like one for the power users, one for the newbs, and one for businesses.

*EDIT have these different version only slightly different, maybe the only thing different are the programs that come with it and the initial settings.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:35 am

Have you even tried any other distros other than Gentoo? Gentoo isn't the best to begin with afterall, but after three weeks with Mandrake I installed it and so far every device I have plugged in has worked seemlessly and as far as I can remember, I got it working the first time that I tried. For my scanner I just compiled the sane backends with the usb USE flag, and then boom it was up and scanning as root. A quick chmod later and I was scanning as a normal user. Oddly enough, my devices have all worked better in Gentoo than they ever have in Windows, but not without some previous hand-holding and system-breaking updates that happened in Mandrake.

For some people, they learn enough by installing Gentoo and checking out the forums. However, most people need a distro such as Mandrake and an RPM search site such as rpm.pbone.net in order to get them going in the right direction. Gentoo is a major step from Windows, so if you didn't use anything else at first, or didn't try compiling a kernel on it then you'll probably get lost. I myself worked my way into Gentoo knowing how to compile my own kernel and programs. Linux isn't harder, it's just different but if it's not right for you in any flavour then that's fine. Just don't troll around here months after returning to Windows like steel300. lol

Muso · Post by **Muso** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:35 am

You should have tried mandrake or SuSE first. Gentoo is not for n00bs ... however n00bs use it all the time.... then flood #gentoo or the forums with "Help I can't get my grub floppy out of my zip drive!!!".

Start slowly ... use a prepackaged linux. Then as you gain understanding..... try source based.

Rydog2987 · Post by **Rydog2987** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:54 am

i have used other distros i have used redhat for about a week and got fed up with the rpm dependencies, so i moved to lycoris where i liked the compatability and ease of use, but it just didnt feel right, like it was kind of holding me back, then that is when i went to gentoo and now gentoo is just too difficult to configure but i love the portage system, so i decided to give up, the only one i am curious about using is debian because that doesnt use rpms, but i have to get the ambition up again to download and burn the iso and resize my windows partition.

codergeek42 · Post by **codergeek42** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:03 am

Rydog2987 wrote:[...]like one for the power users

Debian? Slackware?, Gentoo?

one for the newbs

Mandrake? SuSE? Fedora?

and one for businesses.

SuSE? (It's from Novell) Red Hat?

Just my $0.02...

Rydog2987 · Post by **Rydog2987** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:15 am

yeah but only gentoo has portage, only mandrake is easy to use. Businesses and home users would like both of these i would think, who wouldnt want a distro with portage that is easy to use. I am saying have all the features of these distros in one. have these different version only slightly different, maybe the only thing different are the programs that come with it and the initial settings.

soluzar · Post by **soluzar** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:19 am

Who says that Linux should ever be mainstream anyway? I'm happy when people choose to use linux, but it's no skin of my nose if you choose to use Windows. Linux is an operating system for people who want more from their computer and are prepared to put more in. If you are happy to settle for what Windows offers you, then I say, "Enjoy!"

As to saying that distros should band together... good luck! Debian are agressive about Free Software, and would never work with any other organisation, since no other distro (to my knowlege) adheres to the stringent guidelines that they set for the definition of 'free' software.

Red Hat are the Microsoft of the Linux world, and would see no advantage in working with anyone else even if it were possible. As for the rest, well, they each have their points, but I cannot comment as I have not used most of them, and am unfamiliar with their philosophies,

As for the so-called 'OS Wars', I remain unconvinced that there is any such war. The people who choose linux are able to do so, and those who choose MS are able to do so. What war? Linux derives little advantage that I can see from a larger userbase.

To answer your final point, I say this. First, Linux IMHO has little to gain and much to lose from 'going mainstream', and second, there is no 'they' as far as Linux is concerned. No-one has overall control. There is no King of Linux, other than Linus himself, and even he has created a vansishingly small amount of the code that consitutes a working Linux system. An important part, to be sure, but even he cannot stop what he has started, should he wish to. Nor can he exert power over distributions, should he wish to.

MS == Dictatorship. Linux != Dictatorship. No one can make decisions which guide the overall path of Linux.

Rydog2987 · Post by **Rydog2987** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:40 am

linux user are definitely spiteful towards microsoft users and microsoft users are almost unaware of the presence of linux. When i go onto a site for say like wallpaper i see a penguin smashing a butterfly or a punguin shooting a windows logo, i would say alot of linux users out there are against microsoft and want to get the word out to switch to linux, i would call that, a sort of war. i dont know maybe it is only a select few who try to convert microsoft users but what i have seen on forums and custimization sites linux users hate microsoft, many times calling its users stupid. Like i recall a forum member's signature something like "smart people use linux". What i have wrote on this thread is my opinion from what i have seen in the linux community while using linux for about 3 months. So if anything is going to be done to revolutionize the computer world then it should be the banding together of the linux community, contributing to one project that can actually compete with microsoft.

soluzar · Post by **soluzar** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:02 am

Rydog2987 wrote: So if anything is going to be done to revolutionize the computer world then it should be the banding together of the linux community, contributing to one project that can actually compete with microsoft.

Can't happen. Ever. Why would the various groups surrender their own autonomy to become part of a greater whole? Also, despite my explaining, you don't seem to realise that even if that were not a problem, the current distros have fundamental differences in philosophy which makes them completely incompatible. You could never combine Debian and Red Hat. From a purely technical standpoint, they simply don't gel. And they never could.

Dr Gonzo · Post by **Dr Gonzo** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:33 am

Progeny's Componentized Linux is pretty cool. http://www.progeny.com

It can be Debian, it can be Red Hat, or, if I am not mistaken, it can have parts of both. Progeny is Ian Murdock's baby -- as in deb-IAN. They've already ported Red Hat's Anaconda installer to use apt-get to install debs instead of RPMs. You get Sarge when it's all said and done. Pretty cool, they should be coming out with the release version at some point in the near future.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:42 am

I don't hate Microsoft although they do annoy me. The only thing that I dislike is the fact that companies such as Compaq cram Windows down everyone's throats instead of Linux or some other form of *NIX. Most people might have no idea that it even changed and might just see that it looks a bit different. However, if you really like Windows and have checked out the alternatives then there's no reason for anyone to try to convert you. However, it seems to me that you've checked out the wrong distros.

ioannis.th · Post by **ioannis.th** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:07 am

Rydog2987

As someone else mentioned in another thread, try vidalinux. It 's gentoo basicaly without all the fuss in the beginning. Also it gnome based. It has portage, so as you upgrade packages, you ll end up having a complete source-based gentoo.Rydog2987

John5788 · Post by **John5788** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:43 pm

Rydog2987 wrote:yeah but only gentoo has portage, only mandrake is easy to use. Businesses and home users would like both of these i would think, who wouldnt want a distro with portage that is easy to use. I am saying have all the features of these distros in one. have these different version only slightly different, maybe the only thing different are the programs that come with it and the initial settings.

mandrake has URPMI, suse has YaST, fedora has YUM. they are all their own package managers

reisio · Post by **reisio** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:48 pm

Pwnz3r wrote:Have you even tried

...pressing the RETURN key?!?!?

G.N.A. · Post by **G.N.A.** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:59 pm

Rydog2987 wrote:linux user are definitely spiteful towards microsoft users and microsoft users are almost unaware of the presence of linux. When i go onto a site for say like wallpaper i see a penguin smashing a butterfly or a punguin shooting a windows logo, i would say alot of linux users out there are against microsoft and want to get the word out to switch to linux, i would call that, a sort of war. i dont know maybe it is only a select few who try to convert microsoft users but what i have seen on forums and custimization sites linux users hate microsoft, many times calling its users stupid. Like i recall a forum member's signature something like "smart people use linux". What i have wrote on this thread is my opinion from what i have seen in the linux community while using linux for about 3 months. So if anything is going to be done to revolutionize the computer world then it should be the banding together of the linux community, contributing to one project that can actually compete with microsoft.

<insert > Public Enemy - Don't believe the hype.

Evaluate an OS yourself and don't believe everything you read. If linux didn't work for you, then try to find something that does. Choice is good!

Just so you know, a lot of people do post here about how their bad experience is going to be the downfall of Linux. That is why you get such snippy responses. It is a sort of sore spot with a lot of people in this community.

Good luck with whatever you *choose* to use.

GNA

Stormy Eyes · Post by **Stormy Eyes** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:00 pm

Nobody cares, Rydog. If you prefer Windows, then use Windows. Just don't expect me to use that shit at home.

Ateo · Post by **Ateo** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:41 pm

Linux for newbies: Mandrake, Redhat, SUSE, Fedora, Knoppix

If you're new to linux, why did you decide to jump into something you have no clue about and then turn around and bitch about it?

Even when I was new to gentoo, it didn't take me a week to configure my network.. more like a couple of hours. If it took you more than a week to configure your network, perhaps Windows is your best bet since it does all of that for you.

If you need you hand held with linux, gentoo isn't for you. As far as distros banding together to make one power distro... in your dreams. If you don't like choice, or even looking for it, again, Windows is your best bet.

BTW: linux is mainstream enough. If it can make the assholes of Microsoft executives pucker simply by existing, the presence of linux is in your face.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:44 pm

reisio wrote:
Pwnz3r wrote:Have you even tried
...pressing the RETURN key?!?!?

What in the world does my return key have to do with anything?

LucaSpiller · Post by **LucaSpiller** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:52 pm

I don't think it is just Linux users who hate Microsoft, Windows users hate them too.

I like Linux because you can tinker with stuff to get it to do what you want, with Windows you can't - you are stuck with what Microsoft think you want. Not everyone wants to be able to tinker with stuff, they just want it to work. Linux is evolving all the time and one day near enough everything will work without a user having to edit a config file.

Until that day though Windows will most likely rule, if you want to change something it can be done in the control panel or fairly easily in the registry (which is confusing as hell).

Another reason why people don't use Linux is because not all of their applications work on it. This is one of the reasons why I still use Windows (mainly - eeek), because my programs run on it without having to fiddle about for days to find out that there is no sound support, or another problem you may get using an emulator. So there are equivalent programs on Linux you say - well I like gaming, and at the moment my games are not available on Linux.

Linux is gaining in popularity, but we will have to wait a while until it is the main stream system.

kamagurka · Post by **kamagurka** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:36 pm

bah, the umpteenth redundant discussion.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:43 pm

What programs don't have any equivalents forcing you to run them in Wine or something? At this point, all of the games that I want to play are either available for Linux (UT2004), work seemlessly through Cedega(Doom 3 which is going to have a native Linux binary soon that they say performs better than its Windows counterpart), or are out for consoles(Metroid/Halo 2).

As for programs, I love my Linux programs such as Gaim and the GIMP and I take them over Trillian, Photoshop, and etc any day. Of course, maybe I'm just one of those "lucky" people who can get everything to work therefor only needing the OS I like the best.

reisio · Post by **reisio** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:46 am

Pwnz3r wrote:
reisio wrote:
Pwnz3r wrote:Have you even tried
...pressing the RETURN key?!?!?
What in the world does my return key have to do with anything?

That was directed towards Rydog2987, whose post was one giant paragraph I couldn't even stand to read.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:49 am

reisio wrote:What in the world does my return key have to do with anything?

That was directed towards Rydog2987, whose post was one giant paragraph I couldn't even stand to read.[/quote]

Okay, that makes sense now. Quoting me threw me off a little though. lol

wilburpan · Post by **wilburpan** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:06 am

Pwnz3r wrote:What programs don't have any equivalents forcing you to run them in Wine or something?

Well, in my case, that would be a presentation program that has really really really excellent compatibility with Powerpoint. By compatibilty, I mean that I would be able to seamlessly exchange Powerpoint presentations with my less-computer-enlightened-but-I-still-have-to-work-with-them colleagues at work.

And, no, OpenOffice.org doesn't maintain enough compatibility for me. Believe me, I've tried. And I am anxiously awaiting the day that OpenOffice.org gets to that point.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:07 am

Gladly enough, I don't really need Powerpoint.

The reason why linux isnt mainstream

The reason why linux isnt mainstream

Re: The reason why linux isnt mainstream