OSNews: Opinion: Why Users Blame the Spatial Nautilius

Message

headache · Post by **headache** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:54 pm

I urge everyone to read this "masterpiece" of defense for the "new" spatial mode for Nautilus. Read and weep!

Also read the Slashdot section on the same issue.

I guess Gnome developers just don't get it and the same with all the Gnome zealots. I know this has been discussed here before, but this OSNews article deserves it's own thread.

I read a lot about how great this spatial thingy was prior to the release of Gnome and was surprised to see what it really was and extremly disappointed by the fact that some people call it innovation. I know we are all different etc, but why did they insist on taking 100 steps backward and call it progress?

Stormy Eyes · Post by **Stormy Eyes** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:06 pm

Y'know, I don't waste my time on Nautilus anymore; I just use Konqueror in "Midnight Commander" mode. I fired up gconf and turned off spatial mode at the system level as soon as I installed GNOME 2.6, and I have to admit that I'm not impressed with the justifications for spatial mode.

really · Post by **really** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:34 pm

Thats the most bull i have ever read on osnews. And i dont read it much.

What the hell is wrong with having one fine window with all tabs in it with all webpages? This is truly innovative (once tabs came along) It allows me to sort, glue things togheter, to be consistent. I have one window, and there I browse. Is that so hard, what the hell is wrong with that?

The guy misses the main point, no matter how it is "in real life" or "how it should be", its nothing, its about how people like it.

Hell i started using computers with the win98 in spatial mode, i had no idea what it was supposed to mean or why it was that way. It doesnt reassemble anything i was am used to in "real" life.

If you want real life, stop using computers.

YopWongSapn · Post by **YopWongSapn** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:44 pm

Hmm, I don't much like being told how to browse the web or organize my files. I like multiple tabs, and I don't plan on changing that.

Yeah, I really don't like the spatial "feature", but I really don't have much of a problem with Nautilus itself. It's a bit slower than alternatives, but I'm really not a fan of Konquerer, and I don't have a problem with waiting a few seconds for nautilus to open up (spatial-free, mind you).

really · Post by **really** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:04 pm

When moving about files, when reorganizing as i have done alot of times, i do it in bash with the command line interface, it cant be easier than that.

I sometimes use konqueror to show previews of the images i have (not pr0n!) and just klick around for the fun of it.

YopWongSapn · Post by **YopWongSapn** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:24 pm

really wrote:I sometimes use konqueror to show previews of the images i have (not pr0n!) and just klick around for the fun of it.

When I just recently installed gentoo on one of my faster machines, I thought I'd give KDE another try, as I had heard such wonderful things about 3.2. I didn't mind it too much, but the one thing I couldn't stand was the way Konquerer took over the system. I'm sure there's a way to customize it so it doesn't do that, I just didn't have the patience to try. I'll just stick with my non-spatial Nautilus.

Lews_Therin · Post by **Lews_Therin** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:27 pm

Wow, gotta love the gratuitus comparisons between Linux and Windows

nyteryda · Post by **nyteryda** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:32 pm

Strange really i find Spacial really hard to use (annoying too) so someone telling me Its easy doesn't change that.

Hes a prat. Being able to draw reallife parralles doesn't always make something easier, sometimes it helps but theres a point where its gets worse (or we still would be useing pens, and filing cabinates wouldn't we)

The anger is about the fact that you can't turn it off from within the browser itself. they can put whatever the hell they like in aslong as they don't make you use it.

Mostly I use mc in a aterm

Boris27 · Post by **Boris27** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:36 pm

The guy needs to proof read.
He called it "Nautilius" and "Nautilitus"

YopWongSapn · Post by **YopWongSapn** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:38 pm

nyteryda wrote:Strange really i find Spacial really hard to use (annoying too) so someone telling me Its easy doesn't change that.

I agree. I find the browser mode much easier.

nyteryda wrote:The anger is about the fact that you can't turn it off from within the browser itself. they can put whatever the hell they like in aslong as they don't make you use it.

All you have to do to disable spatial mode in Nautilus (if you're like me and too lazy to use gconf) is run it with the "--browser" option. I just edited my shortcuts to use that option.

YopWongSapn · Post by **YopWongSapn** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:40 pm

Boris27 wrote:The guy needs to proof read.
He called it "Nautilius" and "Nautilitus"

Yeah, I noticed a ton of typos...kinda ruins his credibility.

nyteryda · Post by **nyteryda** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:50 pm

All you have to do to disable spatial mode in Nautilus (if you're like me and too lazy to use gconf) is run it with the "--browser" option. I just edited my shortcuts to use that option.

Its the fact that its supposed to be a GUI it should have a tickbox in pref's.
I turned mine off useing the gconf-editor which wasn't hard once you knew too look there but it just doesn't occur to me to look there, (I still think in terms of either program menu ->options/prefs or some nice plain text config file in /etc

)

Plus gconf or new shortcuts its still to much effort just to switch to brower mode! grrrh

Cossins · Post by **Cossins** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:05 pm

This is the problem with GNOME: All the taste arbitry. I want my computer to act as I want it to act, I do not want to act according to my computer's lack of features or according to somebody else's taste. GNOME tries to tell me what's better for me, which is really unprofessional and arrogant.

- Simon

Stormy Eyes · Post by **Stormy Eyes** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:10 pm

Cossins wrote:This is the problem with GNOME: All the taste arbitry. I want my computer to act as I want it to act, I do not want to act according to my computer's lack of features or according to somebody else's taste. GNOME tries to tell me what's better for me, which is really unprofessional and arrogant.

That, Cossins, is why I use Openbox as my WM and then run whatever GTK and KDE apps I like best. It might not look consistent, but if I wanted a consistent "look" I'd buy a Mac. (bleah!)

Cossins · Post by **Cossins** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:48 pm

Stormy Eyes wrote:
Cossins wrote:This is the problem with GNOME: All the taste arbitry. I want my computer to act as I want it to act, I do not want to act according to my computer's lack of features or according to somebody else's taste. GNOME tries to tell me what's better for me, which is really unprofessional and arrogant.
That, Cossins, is why I use Openbox as my WM and then run whatever GTK and KDE apps I like best. It might not look consistent, but if I wanted a consistent "look" I'd buy a Mac. (bleah!)

Yeah - I just use KDE and all the GTK and Qt and GNOME and KDE apps I want, and it still looks consistent wit a nice QtCurve theme...

- Simon

Duty · Post by **Duty** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:07 pm

I like spatial Nautilus, and I still think that article is moronic.

nyteryda · Post by **nyteryda** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:17 pm

Duty wrote:I like spatial Nautilus, and I still think that article is moronic.

LOL

Mnemia · Post by **Mnemia** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:03 pm

This "innovation" is laughable. I can't imagine changing the way I organize files in my filesystem in order to overcome the shortcomings of a GUI. My computer usage has never been centered primarily around a GUI; it's an idiotic concept to me for me to have to adapt my behavior to some arbitrary system. Most GUIs simply get in my way, and the new GNOME is even more annoying than most. I feel like even Fluxbox is too cluttered with onscreen crap sometimes; you can imagine how I feel about {GNOME|KDE|Windows}.

Moreover, this concept annoyed me massively when it was in Windows 95 10 years ago. It's not just a matter of "getting used to it"; I still thought it sucked after using Windows for years, and can't stand to use computers owned by people who like the idea of having tons of windows open on their desktop. The feature is just a horrible idea as long as filesystems are hierarchical. And I don't think it's a good idea to do away with hierarchical file systems anytime soon; the concept has stuck around because people like categorizing things that way.

Maybe the author is too stupid to use a GUI that doesn't hand hold him through everything. Personally, I think that the very concept of using a GUI for file management is awful and that all of it should be done through a CLI. Even when I used KDE I refused to use Konqueror. The concept is even worse when you have massive screen clutter all over the place.

The fact that the article is dripping with arrogance doesn't help either. Almost everything I've read about the new GNOME is overwhelmingly negative; that should tell these people something.

Epyon · Post by **Epyon** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:27 pm

Going with the open a new window for every damn directory I go in thing was taking a step back IMO. A lot of stuff in my home dir is buried 5-7 directories deep so having an assload of windows open was annoying. I'm also not going to reorganize all my thousands of files to fit more easily with a file manager.

wdreinhart · Post by **wdreinhart** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:22 pm

Why are people still complaining about this?

If you don't like spatial nautilus, don't use it. Switching nautilus back to Windows Exploder clone mode is a four-click fix.

I could understand the irrational fear of messing with gconf from OSnews readers or Mandrake users, but if you can work therough installing Gentoo, you can handle tweaking a single gconf key.

playfool · Post by **playfool** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:25 pm

I love spatial nautilus, it forced me to organise my folders on my desktop..

headache · Post by **headache** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:39 pm

wdreinhart wrote:Why are people still complaining about this?

If you don't like spatial nautilus, don't use it. Switching nautilus back to Windows Exploder clone mode is a four-click fix.

I could understand the irrational fear of messing with gconf from OSnews readers or Mandrake users, but if you can work therough installing Gentoo, you can handle tweaking a single gconf key.

The point is not so much that you can turn it off, but the forced default setting and with a "feature" that every other OS left about 10 years ago and now has been reintroduced by Gnome as the next best thing since sliced bread.

The amount of "noise" about this issue should be a clear indicator to gnome developers that they are heading down the wrong path.

I have several directory structures in my home directory that are 10-12 levels deep and the resulting 10 windows or so that I have no use for anyways is just a pain and something that clutters my screen. I'm pretty "nazi" about how my desktop should be and haveing a gazillion open windows is not one of them. I prefer one maximized application on each virtual desktop. The more screen real estate I can give to each application, the better it is for me since I can get more information in one place. To me, having multiple windows, each possibly overlapping each over, is just annoying.

abzs2k · Post by **abzs2k** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:39 pm

I don't like Spatial Browsing. So I changed it from GConf. My only complaint is they didn't leave any OBVIOUS way for it to be changed. When I first emerged gnome-2.6 I didn't even know that it was called Spatial Browsing. It took me a while to realise that, and once I knew what it was, I quickly found out how to change it.

Cossins · Post by **Cossins** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:05 pm

abzs2k wrote:I don't like Spatial Browsing. So I changed it from GConf. My only complaint is they didn't leave any OBVIOUS way for it to be changed. When I first emerged gnome-2.6 I didn't even know that it was called Spatial Browsing. It took me a while to realise that, and once I knew what it was, I quickly found out how to change it.

Yes, that's also everyone else's complaint. The problem is not that it's a default, the problem is that they dramatically change the default behaviour of a central part of the desktop environment without providing an obvious way of switching back to browsing mode.

- Simon

wdreinhart · Post by **wdreinhart** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:07 pm

headache wrote:The point is not so much that you can turn it off, but the forced default setting and with a "feature" that every other OS left about 10 years ago and now has been reintroduced by Gnome as the next best thing since sliced bread.

I like it. It seems neat, and logical, like a part of the desktop instead a file managing application.

headache wrote:The amount of "noise" about this issue should be a clear indicator to gnome developers that they are heading down the wrong path.

No doubt.

It's a major change, and a lot of users got annoyed by it, but the response has been out of proportion. My problem with this is that that most of the "noise" now seems to be coming from people who didn't use Gnome before 2.6, don't use it now, and probably never will. Most of the loudest anti-spatial-nautilus voices on OSnews are OSX and BeOS zealots, the biggest anti-spatial troll here (ebrostig) uses KDE.

Anyway, CVS nautilus now has a checkbox in the prefs dialong to make it even easier to switch, so apparently the gnome developers have been sufficiently chastened. Your faction has won; further complaining is pointless.