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svxs
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Trinity Desktop Environment - Overlays? Reply with quote

Does anyone happen to know what the most up-to-date portage overlay for TDE is?

I've found many of them floating around the net, with the most recent being updated last year. (https://github.com/Fat-Zer/trinity) Is there another that's more active?

(for anyone confused about TDE - it's a fork of KDE 3.5 with modern features, etc)
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franzf
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should the overlay be more active than the project it holds ebuilds for?
I really would NOT recommend using trinity. It is mostly a one-man-show. Timothy has to "support" all kde3 - er - tde projects (desktop, kwin, apps like konqueror (including KHTML!!!!), konversation, kmail, ...) and even Qt3 (HE IS Qt3 upstream...). Given the quality of his code I would say he is not able to manage security issues. It will be high risk running tde.
Martin Grasslin (kwin maintainer) wrote some posts about trinity - just google ;)

Why do you want to use TDE? Why not KDE4? Or razot-qt?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Desktop Environments to Unsupported Software, questions about overlays belong in US.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trinity is pretty much dead and does not contain most of the security fixes that went into KDE4.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it so hard to understand that many of us were happily using KDE3.5 and now use Trinity daily, we do not like the abomination which became KDE4.
Even though it has problems it is still better than the alternatives in many ways.

Gentoo was supposed to be about choice.
But clearly we are not allowed to choose any slow moving projects.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funk wrote:
Gentoo was supposed to be about choice.
But clearly we are not allowed to choose any slow moving projects.

Did you pay for anything or how could you come to the conclusion that anyone was obliged to support your decade-old software dreams?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which proves paid (and usually closed) software is BETTER. In the "free" world, whenever you don't swim with the main group, this is what you get: you did not pay for it. so shut up! Great.

I use several "decade-old software", and this because many are better than today's stuff. Besides, TDE is *NOT* decade old - remember Unix was born in the 1970s? So Linux is "decade old software", right?
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tcoulon wrote:
Which proves paid (and usually closed) software is BETTER. In the "free" world, whenever you don't swim with the main group, this is what you get: you did not pay for it. so shut up! Great.

Without a contract, no one owes you support for dead software. In fact, when you (or a group of people) are the only one being interested in a piece of software, but lack the capacity to maintain it yourself, your only chance can be to hire someone to do that work for you. In that case, that software is actually alive and kicking (it is called KDE SC 4.x), so insisting on your right to remain at one point in its history of development (and let others do the work for you) is even more arrogant.

tcoulon wrote:
I use several "decade-old software", and this because many are better than today's stuff. Besides, TDE is *NOT* decade old - remember Unix was born in the 1970s? So Linux is "decade old software", right?

Seriously? :lol: So let's compare git commit stats between TDE and Linux... TDE then basically doesn't exist.
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is kde-sunset overlay (http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde-sunset.git) which was last updated in February this year. I use it to install quanta+ and knetattach, I am very used to these packages. I don't like bloated abomination called KDE 4 or GNOME 3. I use MATE as desktop environment. Because I use only text editor I hope this isn't serious security threat to my system. MATE is more actively maintained. I am sure today's bloated DEs have more security holes than MATE as it is mature and simple software. GNOME 3 and KDE 4 are so ugly, cumbersome, and inconvenient to use. I have no idea how they can be used.
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tux2015
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tcoulon wrote:
Which proves paid (and usually closed) software is BETTER.


Actually, no. In that case you depend on developer's decisions too. Commercial company may update software and discontinue maintenance of old version too. It is even worse because with closed source software you will not be able to maintain it yourself and/or hire third party developers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trinity is alive and kicking. So far I've managed to build the base packages of version 14.0.0 on a current Gentoo and created an overlay for it:

https://bitbucket.org/mgebert/gentoo-trinity

I can call startx from a root or user console and then starttde to get a working desktop, but currently tdm refuses to start a session.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MurphyG wrote:
Trinity is alive and kicking. So far I've managed to build the base packages of version 14.0.0 on a current Gentoo and created an overlay for it:

https://bitbucket.org/mgebert/gentoo-trinity

I can call startx from a root or user console and then starttde to get a working desktop, but currently tdm refuses to start a session.


Thanks for the overlay.

That finally allowed a lazy user such as myself to test trinity. I use a minimal setup that doesn't get in the way, but I also was a kde3 user. Can't get the hang of modern desktops though.

I haven't been able to compile tdelibs with cups enabled though. I had to disable it to allow the compilation to continue. Is that a known bug? Is any concrete cups version needed? I am using cups-2.0.1-r1. I suppose that might be the problem.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good one, MurphyG. :-)

Can we see a stacktrace and preferably a paste-link of the file (or function) please?

Would be good to see the same file/s from kdm3.5 and 4.10 (before it gets wobbly;) as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry for the delayed answer. Despite good intentions, and due to many distractions nothing has changed since my last post. However I still intend to push the overlay into a usable state. Next step is to get in touch with the Trinity community in order to debug tdm.

i92guboj wrote:
I haven't been able to compile tdelibs with cups enabled though. I had to disable it to allow the compilation to continue. Is that a known bug? Is any concrete cups version needed? I am using cups-2.0.1-r1.


I didn't test against any other than my installed packages. The system has net-print/cups-1.7.5 installed, which apparently was the most current unmasked version at the time of my last sync, just before I started to work on the overlay. I'm sorry I currently can't support you with your issue, but in order to keep going I intend to get the environment working on my system first, before I start troubleshooting other setups. However, I would gladly accept patches that would make the ebuilds suitable for a broader audience of users, or give write access to the repo to co-developers.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooh nice, maybe I can start thinking about moving off of KDE3.5!!! :D
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm now officially giving up. I need a running desktop within the next week, and I'll try KDE4. If that doesn't suit me I think I'll install Ubuntu + Trinity, or hope for KDE5.
Is anyone interested in continuing the overlay?
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MurphyG wrote:
OK, I'm now officially giving up. I need a running desktop within the next week, and I'll try KDE4.

If you want to have a well matured DE, then KDE4 sure is the way to go.
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've had this discussion before, didn't you? There are people who don't like KDE4 with all its bloat on legacy systems, and after emerging kdebase-meta yesterday I remembered why, too. Also, when it comes to mature, for what my 5 ¢ are worth Trinity is even better matured...

If you now ask why I'm doing this though, the choice was to either drop my long-running Gentoo install or KDE3 :-( I really wish there were a TDE overlay, but I'm not competent enough to build and maintain it.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MurphyG wrote:
I think you've had this discussion before, didn't you? There are people who don't like KDE4 with all its bloat on legacy systems, and after emerging kdebase-meta yesterday I remembered why, too.

I was just answering to you, figuring that Plasma 5 wasn't exactly what you were looking for, coming from TDE. What exactly do you perceive as bloat? And how should I know what system you are running it on? If you wanted an even smaller base to start from, you could have emerged kdebase-startkde.

MurphyG wrote:
Also, when it comes to mature, for what my 5 ¢ are worth Trinity is even better matured...

Stale is not the same as mature. There's a reason for the struggle you have to get TDE even built with modern userspace libs. Even KDE4 is now starting to need backports to stay compatible.

The situation with MATE (Gnome 2 fork) is completely different - there's actual development happening there, with the last release a few weeks ago, and even GTK+-2 sees the occasional point release (though last major one back in 2011), while Qt3 was last updated in 2004...
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Stale is not the same as mature. There's a reason for the struggle you have to get TDE even built with modern userspace libs.

Hmm which "modern libs" keep changing ABI so often?
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't even need to be an ABI break; in KDE4 I found a stupid ifdef version check that was just bound to break with the next major bump. There's the usual suspects boost, poppler and *kits (where TDE had an uphill battle to get away from HAL in the first place), GCC build issues, but I have also seen TDE issues related to openssl and cups.
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the problem with cups 2 look here. I with the changed from there I could compile tdelibs with cups.

https://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit/tdelibs/commit/?id=592bebb5
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
What exactly do you perceive as bloat?

Starting with the default DBMS for services I don't want and probably don't need being MySQL. WTF?! Why not SQLite, which seems a more reasonable choice for Desktop machines?
Further there's obviously no KDE4 without OpenGL/GLES.

genstorm wrote:
If you wanted an even smaller base to start from, you could have emerged kdebase-startkde.

From https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE#Packages:
Quote:
kde-base/kdebase-startkde, a very minimal, effectively unsupported KDE environment (no KDE applications or artwork)

Extrapolating from my experience, I would have ended with about everything from kdebase-meta installed anyhow, but with more hassle. My primary goal is to get a working desktop, then I'll start optimizing.

genstorm wrote:
And how should I know what system you are running it on?

Does that matter? The point of this thread is how to get Trinity on Gentoo, not how (or why) to switch to KDE4. I'll surely be thankful if you can give hints to achieve the first, but I doubt you're going to make friends here lobbying the latter.

genstorm wrote:
There's a reason for the struggle you have to get TDE even built with modern userspace libs.

As I've mentioned above I already had tdelibs and a couple of base packages built and running on a current Gentoo, and there wasn't much struggle or patching. My impression of Trinity 14 was that it's quite up to date, and under constant development; stale tastes different to me.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, is this still the same you who said
MurphyG wrote:
OK, I'm now officially giving up. I need a running desktop within the next week, and I'll try KDE4.

?

MurphyG wrote:
genstorm wrote:
What exactly do you perceive as bloat?

Starting with the default DBMS for services I don't want and probably don't need being MySQL. WTF?! Why not SQLite, which seems a more reasonable choice for Desktop machines?

Because embedded mysql works better, and you don't need to configure anything as well. I recall there were unresolvable limitations with sqlite... Uniquely on Gentoo, there's even old-PIM available which doesn't need akonadi.
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Sorry, is this still the same you who said
MurphyG wrote:
OK, I'm now officially giving up. I need a running desktop within the next week, and I'll try KDE4.

?


Sure, and the same that said
Quote:
I really wish there were a TDE overlay

What's your point?

genstorm wrote:
Because embedded mysql works better, you don't need to configure anything.

And that differs from SQLite in which way?

genstorm wrote:
Uniquely on Gentoo, there's even old-PIM available which doesn't need akonadi.

Now, that's finally an interesting detail. Then, who said I want PIM at all? But I'm sure the argument goes that it's included in the base "for a better and modern user experience", as well as a collection of Plasma widgets. See, and that's the central point why I would rather use TDE instead of KDE4!
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