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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: xorg-x11 experiences. |
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Several people have recently started testing xorg-x11 as a replacement for xfree.
In support of that, it might be useful to collect user experiences as they come in, in order
to build a picture of what this xfree-4.4+ replacement looks like. (For now, we are talking
x11-base/xorg-x11-6.7.0 here.)
Some preliminary remarks in no particular order:
- You will also have to install x11-terms/xterm-184 and sys-apps/utempter-0.5.3.2-r1 (this will happen automatically);
- The 19776 libGL segfault problems are gone. Essentially, xorg-x11 incorporates the huge patch which is the final attachment to this bug;
- Fonts are moved from /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/fonts (as is also
the case with xfree-4.3.0-r6 and beyond);
- After install, you must run 'opengl-update xorg-x11'
- The "official" config file is xorg.conf, but XF86Config will still work;
- The Microsoft fonts are not included.
- Doubtless many other things which all of you will remind me of or correct me on.
As well as comments regarding reliability and robustness, I am particularly interested
in the following sorts of things:
- Appearance. How your various favorite applications, browsers, window managers,
and so on look to you compared with xfree;
- Performance. Any performance differences between the two; especially
- libGL (opengl)-related performance by video card (mach64, creator, elite, or
whatever you are using.)
Of course, I have some observations from a U60+Elite3D-m3, but they
are very preliminary. So, in order not to bias you one way or the other,
at this time I am not disclosing them. (Yes, I know that's a cop out )
Thanks for any responses;
Regards, |
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YopWongSapn l33t
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 627
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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This is a good idea. I have been curious about what other people think about xorg-x11. Ironically enough, I was just thinking about giving it a test spin. I'll be sure and post what I think once I get a chance to test it out. _________________ Gentoo...it's like wiping your ass with silk. Or sandpaper. |
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bung-foo Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jun 2002 Posts: 146
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I bit on this one. And here's what I did in the order I did it:
1. add ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~sparc" to /etc/make.conf
2. emerge -C xfree
3. emerge xorg-x11
4. opengl-update xorg-x11
5. /etc/init.d/xdm start
I got a nice gdm login screen and logged into gnome. Everything seems ok so far. The fonts are nice and clean looking. I don't really feel any speed increase.
Is there anything I should do to make sure that an app I build in the future doesn't try to build xfree?
Abe |
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Weeve Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 641
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Most applications should have already been fixed to use the virtual/x11 dependency (which xorg-x11 provides). If you find one that hasn't been fixed, please file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org and let us know. |
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bung-foo Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jun 2002 Posts: 146
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Its a deal.
Abe |
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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:07 am Post subject: |
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OK, a hint. I am interested in glxgears timings xfree <--> xorg. |
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smart Guru
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 Posts: 455
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya,
cannot give you any comparing figures, but what i can say is that the savage driver results in immediate 0 frames a second for me. |
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bung-foo Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Jun 2002 Posts: 146
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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From my ultra 80 with an elite 3d m6 and two procs
> glxgears
412 frames in 5.0 seconds = 82.400 FPS
357 frames in 5.0 seconds = 71.400 FPS
492 frames in 6.0 seconds = 82.000 FPS
480 frames in 6.0 seconds = 80.000 FPS
I can't provide comparison numbers because I couldn't ever get glx and dri to work before
Abe |
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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. That helps confirm that right now, with an Elite at least, the
performance of xorg+glx is pretty bad compared with xfree-4.3.0 (if you can
make it run).
For example, if you run that same xorg-glxgears over a network to an Xfree
system, you will see about twice that performance.
Another example, if you grab Mesa-6.0.1 from Mesa3D.org and replace
the '-mv8' with '-mcpu=ultrasparc' in the build path for sparc-ultra-linux
(or some permutation on that), the resulting libGL as a drop-in replacement
for xorg-glx will give a huge performance boost.
Bottom line: For Elite, at least, there is a tremendous penalty if you get at
opengl like this -- Program+libGL <--> Xorg <--> Mesa -- which is not present
in xfree. Indeed, either of these gives better performance:
- Program+libGL <--> LAN <--> xfree <--> Mesa
- Program+Mesa-libGL <--> Xorg
I do not know yet if the same is true of Creator or not. We'll all find out, though.
(Creator takes a somewhat different path through libGL, because it can
do dri/drm. It's just that the xfree/xorg module to do that for the ffb is
broken. Still, as I recall, it ends up using different logic.)
Notice that inserting Xorg between the program using opengl and opengl itself
makes little sense with an Elite, because Elite does not do dri/drm. So if
you have an Elite, you probably want to ba able to opengl-update mesa
or such-like anyway.
That's a whole lot more information than I am sure of. I'm using this
thread as a place to collect information and to keep my working notes.
Sorry about that. |
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stonent Veteran
Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 1139 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
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I was using whatever the last 4.399 version was before I screwed up my install. Xine played with a lot of pink noise in it. (Like the overlay was peeking through) Using XV or any other video technique.
Anyone gotten DRM working on the ATI framebuffers? _________________ Inspiron 4100 & Sun UltraAXe
Portage on Solaris|Dell Laptop Hacks
The way you feel about organized religion is the same way I feel about organized socialism. |
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Gecklord Apprentice
Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 174
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:30 am Post subject: |
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It would be interesting which Sun framebuffers are supported yet...
I searched the homepage for these infos but couldn't find anything about supported devices! |
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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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You can guess by looking at /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers ; The
driver set hasn't changed for years because xfree/xorg do little or no testing
on sparc linux.
Here's what's there:
Code: |
terciopelo drivers #
terciopelo drivers # ls . linux
.:
total 1560
4 ./ 352 glint_drv.o* 100 savage_drv.o* 152 sunffb_drv.o* 20 vga_drv.o*
4 ../ 4 linux/ 8 sunbw2_drv.o* 36 sunleo_drv.o*
40 ati_drv.o* 224 mga_drv.o* 8 suncg14_drv.o* 12 suntcx_drv.o*
140 atimisc_drv.o* 116 r128_drv.o* 8 suncg3_drv.o* 84 tdfx_drv.o*
20 fbdev_drv.o* 188 radeon_drv.o* 12 suncg6_drv.o* 28 vesa_drv.o*
linux:
total 28
4 ./ 4 ../ 20 v4l_drv.o*
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Most normal framebuffers should be OK, but be aware, the expert series
is not supported, last I knew. |
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Mark Clegg Apprentice
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 270 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Just switched over to Xorg on my Ultra 5 (Mach 64) and it certainly looks OK so far.
enlightenment and kde both appear normal.... |
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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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To answer myself somewhat. With xorg-x11, U2+Creator, glxgears's performance is
unchanged. So we are looking at an Elite-only problem with the performance degradation.
Doubtless because Elite does not even try to do DRM. |
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Ferris Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 426 Location: N. Virginia (USA)
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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More talking to myself, but for this record, xorg-x11 is fine on SS20+cg6,
but with same performance hit as with Elite (50% degradation) on
glx for, I suppose, similar reasons. |
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