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raddaqii
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Gentoo Linux on g+ social network, where will it move? Reply with quote

So, the Gentoo Linux community over on g+ has a mildly impressive 4,554 members, and some valuable content I'd think.

Now with g+ about to sunset in April of 2019 (in four months!), did the discussion about where to move it, or what to do about that platform falling away soon already happen, or yield a result?

I'm a member of that community, however not actively involved with whoever runs that (low traffic, it seems) community. Still would be sad to see it go.

Thoughts? Links?
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Facebook
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some (many) g+ communities are moving to https://mewe.com/myworld
There is already a gentoo group with 3 (whow!!!!!) followers :-)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Off the Wall to Gentoo Chat.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Diaspora? Isn't that more privacy oriented? The way I see it, any social media network beyond a certain size screws up and hands out user data. Or, they just do it on purpose.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we could take this opportunity to step back from proprietary social silos, and Gentoo's recent increase on proprietary software in general - we no longer have a self-hosted init/rc system.

Anyway it'd be nice to have planet.gentoo.org be less dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Facebook

Sure, and when you write "slave device" then you get banned for hate speech.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Naib wrote:
Facebook

Sure, and when you write "slave device" then you get banned for hate speech.

Really (I've never had a facebook account)?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me neither, but I hear horror stories.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife has a facebook account, and I would hope Gentoo would not support that platform.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/

Also supported by several Gentoo developers
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Naib wrote:
Facebook

Sure, and when you write "slave device" then you get banned for hate speech.


++

Facebook is getting increasingly hyper about banning people for jokes. There doesn't seem to be any social network that respects freedom of speech. Twitter's bad, Facebook is worse, and Gab is essentially just controlled opposition which keeps running into hosting and funding problems. There is mewe and VK, but those both seem like Facebook knock offs. I'm not sure about their policies on language and jokes.

These forums and IRC seem like the best places.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go with Diaspora, and then we dictate our own rules for our own pod.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Go with Diaspora, and then we dictate our own rules for our own pod.


Is this as simple as just setting up a webserver?

(Not looking into completely researching this question when you probably know the answer)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Go with Diaspora, and then we dictate our own rules for our own pod.


Is this as simple as just setting up a webserver?

(Not looking into completely researching this question when you probably know the answer)

I see some Docker containers available. I'm not sure what would go into configuration.

EDIT: Okay, I've been messing around with this. Here are the general principles:

1. Each pod is a website.
2. Each user account (called a "seed") belongs to exactly one pod.
3. Each user always logs into their account's own pod, never another pod for that account.
4. The pods federate with each other.
5. Federated content is always accessed from an account's own pod.
6. Federation is automatic to the user.
7. A user's ID is formatted as [username]@[pod-domain].
8. Most pods allow publishing to Twitter and Tumblr.
9. Some pods seem to provide XMPP servers.

My current Diaspora ID is wswartzendruber@diasp.org.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder why it never caught on.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I wonder why it never caught on.
Too complex for the average user, too involved for the lazy populous. Thats why Facebook and Twitter initially appealed: It spoon fed to them what they thought they were interested in and before you know it, it was feeding you what the corps wanted.

Then there is the "but my family is on foo". People (joe average) don't want a million and one different sites/tools when one sort of does what they want

Finally there is the Blue Ocean Strategy. If you are going to go in an compete with an established player you either do what they do better, make interacting simpler AND undercut them OR you approach it from an area they do not compete in. Facebook is too well established to really compete or even seriously exist in the same ocean as them. Linkedin survives because they are attacking it slightly differently, Mattermost is equally attacking it slightly differently and are surviving

This link is a good example. It was a writeup associated with Epic's new gaming store as they "try" to compete with Valve. Exactly the same argument for a new player coming in to compete with Facebook

https://www.fortressofdoors.com/so-you-want-to-compete-with-steam/
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diaspora is just one one platforms that interoperate in the fediverse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
interoperability is really improving, so beside the server (pod) users can also choose the software they prefer to interact with the fediverse .....
I started with a gnusocial server years ago, than moved to friendica and now I prefer hubzilla, but basically all servers interact with the same fediverse.

BTW the fediverse is mostly leftist but there are some right wing server, some servers ban other servers because of their political affiliation.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I wonder why it never caught on.

I would say it's hard to measure how much it's catching on. There is no central authority for Diaspora. Also, I think there may be increased interest here as the large social media entities are proving to irresponsible with everyone's data.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
pjp wrote:
I wonder why it never caught on.
Too complex for the average user, too involved for the lazy populous. Thats why Facebook and Twitter initially appealed: It spoon fed to them what they thought they were interested in and before you know it, it was feeding you what the corps wanted.
My bad. After the easy to follow and understand 9 step process, I thought the sarcasm was obvious :)

I'd also add that I believe the majority of users continue to not care about the "abuses" committed by these platforms. Why do I believe that? The user base hasn't dropped precipitously.

Naib wrote:
Then there is the "but my family is on foo". People (joe average) don't want a million and one different sites/tools when one sort of does what they want

Finally there is the Blue Ocean Strategy. If you are going to go in an compete with an established player you either do what they do better, make interacting simpler AND undercut them OR you approach it from an area they do not compete in. Facebook is too well established to really compete or even seriously exist in the same ocean as them. Linkedin survives because they are attacking it slightly differently, Mattermost is equally attacking it slightly differently and are surviving
Absolutely, and why I thought my sarcasm would have been obvious. LinkedIn seems more specialized than a meaningful threat to Facebook. I've ever heard of Mattermost, but that probably says more about me.

Naib wrote:
This link is a good example. It was a writeup associated with Uber's new gaming store as they "try" to compete with Valve. Exactly the same argument for a new player coming in to compete with Facebook

https://www.fortressofdoors.com/so-you-want-to-compete-with-steam/
lol, I take a gander. That Uber is trying to get into gaming suggests something significant about their core business. That said, they should have done a ' Death Race 2000' game as PR.


wswartzendruber wrote:
I would say it's hard to measure how much it's catching on. There is no central authority for Diaspora. Also, I think there may be increased interest here as the large social media entities are proving to irresponsible with everyone's data.
As mentioned above, my comment was sarcasm. But you are correct. Measuring increased usage of Diaspora is probably difficult. That said, I'd offer that the meaningful measurement is in any (if any) losses to Big Dystopian Social Media. Unless their subscriber loss rate is increasing, then I don't think Diaspora / alternative uptake means much. Maybe there are a "significant" number of users who are also using other platforms. But if 2018 wasn't enough to get the majority of people to quit, then I don't know what would (short of a celebrity spinoff platform).
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Epic* not Uber... stupid typing
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
As mentioned above, my comment was sarcasm. But you are correct. Measuring increased usage of Diaspora is probably difficult. That said, I'd offer that the meaningful measurement is in any (if any) losses to Big Dystopian Social Media. Unless their subscriber loss rate is increasing, then I don't think Diaspora / alternative uptake means much. Maybe there are a "significant" number of users who are also using other platforms. But if 2018 wasn't enough to get the majority of people to quit, then I don't know what would (short of a celebrity spinoff platform).

When it comes to the Gentoo user base, though, does this matter? I think that if we spun up a Diaspora server, you would probably see some people register there and post things. Developers could post updates there. And, plus, if anyone wanted, there's the rest of the Diaspora network to connect to.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
When it comes to the Gentoo user base, though, does this matter? I think that if we spun up a Diaspora server, you would probably see some people register there and post things. Developers could post updates there. And, plus, if anyone wanted, there's the rest of the Diaspora network to connect to.
No, what any small group of people chooses to do for themselves doesn't matter to anyone else. I was going to add more comments, but then I don't know why anyone used g+ to begin with, so I have no clue what they'd choose next. Presumably they chose g+ because they had an account and didn't have to do much extra work. Which on the surface would seem to rule out anything that didn't come close to that barrier to entry.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
*Epic* not Uber... stupid typing
:lol: Not overly familiar with Epic, but based on the article, I'd agree that trying to directly attack Steam would be foolish. But a new entrant trying to penetrate a practical monopoly isn't a new problem. And when the new entrant isn't trying or able to compete at any level, then the outcome is fairly predictable.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is weird. While I am with pjp on avoiding another layer of connectivity when these very forums and the IRC channels (and stack overflow) provide all that is needed, the technology behind Diaspora seems really interesting.

I am in a conundrum. 8O
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