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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: Umm... Hope this is right!!! |
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Hi Chaps...
Massive linux fan but a bit of a retarded user...
Haven't managed to settle on a proper distro to potentially replace windows but havent tried gentoo yet... Last time i looked at it it seemed very confusing but hopefully I'm coming back with a better perspective!!
First started with fedora core 3, tried a few more fedora's up until the most recent version with some large chunks of Ubuntu mixed in...
didn't like ubuntu's wifi compatibility, which fedora had, but now fedora uses the lvm thing which I don't see a benefit of... and no one seemed willing to explain! but hey....
What I'm looking to do is to learn how to use the available Linux art tools... like inkscape and gimp etc...
Is this distro as complicated as I thought? I'm used to .rpm and .deb (or whatever ubuntu uses now) so I'm rubbish at compiling from source... but definitely willing to learn...
Any other artists out there? I'm currently downloading the live DVD and will give it a shot.... |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54237
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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shugs81,
Welcome to Gentoo
A willingness to learn is all it takes to install gentoo. So you don't have pressure on yourself to complete the install quickly, consider installing Gentoo as a part of a multiple boot system. When you are comfortable with Gentoo, you can wipe out the other systems if you want too.
Don't worry about building from source code, the Gentoo package manager (portage) does that for you. What you will will find different is the flexibility that Gentoo provides. All the controls are exposed and you need to use at least some of them.
Start here. If you have a 64 bit CPU and > 2G RAM you should do a 64 bit install, otherwise do a 32 bit install.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers mate!
thanks for the quick reply!
In the process of downloading the live DVD atm and reading though the manuals...
will no doubt have at least tried to install it by tomorrow! looking good on the whole customisable front... much more flexible than other distros....
Is there any support for the realtech 8191s wireless usb dongle?
or atleast what is the best supported wireless N usb dongle?
Ta! |
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disi
Veteran
Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: Out There ...
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Atheros just went open source with their drivers.
That means, they are straight available in the Linux kernel without installing any additional packages or firmware because of licence problems.
//edit: for realtek:
| Code: |
disi-desktop ~ # emerge -s rtl | grep firmware
* net-wireless/rtl8192se-firmware
Description: RTL8191SE/8192SE wireless chipset firmware
* net-wireless/rtl8192su-firmware
Description: RTL8191SU wireless chipset firmware
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Gentoo on Uptime Project - Larry is a cow |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Just looked at the live DVD...
seems respectable... think the last time i looked at a gentoo live distro was ages ago and it had a wierd interface... or maybe that was something else...
anyway...
couple of initial issues....
Firstly... I use a MS wireless keyboard and mouse which wasn't recognised at all in the live dvd... will they be recognised in the install? or will i need drivers etc for them?
Secondly... Internet... this may be a problem for me cause my pc is upstairs but the router is downstairs... I've 2 wireless n dongles - a realtek one and a railink one (branded tenda) the ralink one was recognised in fedora though dropped out every 5 mins or so...
is there initial support for either of these chipsets or will i have to drag the pc downstairs and connect the router and hope i've got enough space to set everything up to get it working...
ta again peeps! |
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shugs81
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Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Also forgot to ask...
Should I repair the boot partition to be windows only? Does the install set up partitions for you? If not what would be the best way to help speed up the system? A bigger swap partition? And does it use ext or lvm (dunno if that's just a fedora thing or not)?
I checked the manual and it doesn't mention the setting up of boot things and i cant remember if it saidabout auto partitioning... will be approximately 500gb... |
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Shining Arcanine
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Joined: 24 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| shugs81 wrote: | Also forgot to ask...
Should I repair the boot partition to be windows only? Does the install set up partitions for you? If not what would be the best way to help speed up the system? A bigger swap partition? And does it use ext or lvm (dunno if that's just a fedora thing or not)?
I checked the manual and it doesn't mention the setting up of boot things and i cant remember if it saidabout auto partitioning... will be approximately 500gb... |
I do not know what you mean by "Should I repair the boot partition to be windows only?". Gentoo Linux is installed manually, so no one will setup your partitions for you. Partitioning is done manually. You will not need lvm unless you are doing Linux RAID.
Swap is slow. Having more will not make your system faster, but it will prevent the oom-killer from starting until you have used both your physical memory and whatever swap you have allocated.
The manual has information on configuring the boot loader toward the end. |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry... currently have another distribution on... but I'll remove kit and sort everything out from there... |
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Goverp
Advocate
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | ...
I do not know what you mean by "Should I repair the boot partition to be windows only?". Gentoo Linux is installed manually, so no one will setup your partitions for you. Partitioning is done manually.
... |
To expand on that: don't expect that you install Gentoo by putting the DVD in the drive and clicking "Next". You install it by booting the system on the DVD and then taking the following command-line steps:
- Partition your drives. Now's the time to do LVM or RAID or crypto setup if you want them.
- Format them. You choose the file system yourself. My taste is for ext4 - "main line" and reasonably fast.
- Download and extract the Gentoo stage 3 files and portage. That puts the essential utilities and configuration data on your disks.
- Configure, compile and install your own kernel. Until this step, you've no Linux to run. However, you're still not ready.
- Configure your minimal system (network etc.).
- If you haven't got one, install and configure your boot loader. This is the step that overwrites the disk's MBR previously installed by Windows. If you install grub, it's relatively straight-forward to provide dual-boot to Windows and Gentoo. If you already have a boot loader from a previous Linux install, you can either add Gentoo to its menu (assuming you will keep the previous Linux's boot partition), or start afresh, possibly adding a menu item to boot your old Linux. There's no need to reinstall the original Windows MBR - installing grub writes straight over it. Note that Gentoo does not automatically configure grub - you must do that by hand.
- Whatever else I've forgotten
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- Finally, boot your shiny new, minimal, system.
- From its command line, install the packages you want, probably X, etc. etc.
It's not until you've hit the last step that you have what you get from using say an Ubuntu install disk. It's a lot more work, but you know where everything is, and what it's for!
The handbook Neddy Seagoon pointed you at is the definitive list of steps - don't actually follow my list above, it's just an overview to show where bits fit.
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Eek! If that's the cased then expect loads of questions!! Also is it possible to download the packages and there dependancies via USB stick? Will probably be a better working environment if I can't get distracted by daancing naked ladies! 
So I get that the install CD is just that... a very basic os with effectively nothing attached... not even x11? Is there a list some where that gives what you basically need for an os? Or is that all included in the minimal install?
If any admins want to shift this over to the install section you can do... or if you want me to start a new thread I can do...
Already I can feel the trauma... but its gonna be well worth it! With t'other distros there was always a load of crap that I didn't know what it was... I will be able to pick and choose!!! Woohoo! |
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gerard27
Advocate
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2377
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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The Gentoo DVD is not really meant for installing.
It can be done but there are better ones.
Rescuecd in my sig is probably the best.
And be prepared to enter a lot of commands by CLI.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Doh! I always leave stuff out! I've downloaded the minimum install CD too.. |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54237
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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shugs81,
You can install by fetching things on a USB stick. Its called Sneakernet
If you want to install via wireless networking, SystemRescueCD is probably the best bet. As well as lots of wireless drivers, it provides a pretty GUI that you can use to get to the forums. Its also Gentoo based, so just works with the Gentoo handbook.
Exactly what file did you download to get a live DVD?
I hope it didn't have 2008 in the file name. Thats three years old now.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| It was just on the main site... was definitely recent and was about 2.6gb... might look into that systemrescue cd especially if it has wifi drivers! |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54237
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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shugs81,
Thats 10.1 then. That was made shortly after Gentoos 10th birthday in October 2009.
In Gentoo, a year is a long time.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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but i downloaded the minimal install cd (about 200mb) dated 17th feb 2011... 
I think i'm managing to confuse myself and everybody else!!! 
this bodes well... apologies in advance when i come to install this thing!!! |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54237
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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shugs81,
The minimal CD supports few, if any, wireless network interfaces.
When I said 10.1, I was referring to the LiveDVD, which is about 18 months old.
The minimal CD is err, pretty minimal. There is no GUI, you just get a shell prompt, then its you and the handbook.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Raptor85
Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO system rescue cd (mentioned earlier) is the way to go, it's (generally) got the best networking support.
It also sounds like you may have missed the link posted earlier, when you're ready for install I suggest following the handbook front to back, should probably read it through once also to understand what you'll be doing. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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i had read it... just wasn't sure which way to go...
I've managed to remove grub so I know that if i mess everything up that I can get windows running again...
Just downloading latest systemrescue... noticed there's a usb boot option which would have saved me a few cd's over the years rather than the BIIIG pile of cd's going all the way back to fedora 3!
I'm giving this a miss for tonight so I'll give it all a go tomorrow...
p.s. didn't realise that the minimal installl had to gui!!! I'd have poo'd myself if i had installed it before i knew that! |
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gerard27
Advocate
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2377
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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The gui is NOT for installing!!
Apparently you haven't read the Gentoo Handbook.
Installing Gentoo is by command line!
The gui on the rescuecd is so you can read the handbook in Firefox while installing.
No "point and click " will do.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download |
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shugs81
n00b
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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ok.. i'll keep quiet till i get stuck then...
also i realise i'm saying gui but i meant a desktop environment like gnome/kde etc...
i did realise the install was command line... what i meant was that i didn't realise the minimal install didn't come with one... |
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tomk
Bodhisattva
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 7221
Location: Sat in front of my computer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Moved from Gentoo Chat to Installing Gentoo as pre-installation questions should be asked here, GC is more for discussions about Gentoo itself.
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cach0rr0
Bodhisattva
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 4123
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| shugs81 wrote: | ok.. i'll keep quiet till i get stuck then...
also i realise i'm saying gui but i meant a desktop environment like gnome/kde etc...
i did realise the install was command line... what i meant was that i didn't realise the minimal install didn't come with one... |
it's all command line, but, fortunately at least the "base system" pretty well has every instruction well documented in the handbook.
the part that normally trips up users is getting a kernel set up. genkernel is available, but I'm not particularly keen on it.
Highly recommend the manual configuration route, which yes, is a touch more work, but with the right guides not as daunting as it sounds (see: my signature)
The handbook is heaps of words and doc for what is basically nothing more than:
-partition your disk(s)
-put file systems on those disks (e.g. ext3, reiserfs, xfs)
-mount the partitions where they need to go
-unpack stage3 tarball to the root of your root partition, unpack portage tarball to /usr
-chroot
-set up the kernel (the single biggest stumbling block for new users!)
-compile the kernel, and copy the bzImage over to /boot
-install 3 or 4 other needed system utilities (e.g. syslog, cron, and tools for your file systems)
-install grub
-configure grub
done and done.
you now have an operational base system from which to window shop and install the stuff you want, and only the stuff you want, with none of the cruft
the rest is just deciding what packages you want (e.g. is this a desktop? build X, following the Xorg documentation. Want KDE, Gnome, XFCE4, E17? Follow those install docs.)
It's more work than a standard binary distro. The difference is, you're learning as you go, the friction is all in the beginning, whereas with a standard binary distro, everything somewhat works out of the box, and you're left thinking, "ok, now how the hell is all of this pieced together?! because I want to do $foo, and havent a clue how!"
For the people that use and stay with gentoo, it's a worthwhile trade-off. For some, it isn't - the beauty of course being that there's no wrong choice - this is one of the few decisions one makes in life where that's true. Well, except ice cream.
You won't know if this is the distro for you until you give it a proper try-out. And by proper, I mean actually going through some of the initial hurdles, learning the requisite knowledge, and getting to an operational system. Once you do get to that point, it will be "ok, do i think i learned enough i could repeat that outcome next time with greater ease? do i know enough to operate this system? Am I happy enough with the outcome that I feel there's a benefit making gentoo my distro for this machine?"
And of course you may get it working, decide it's not for you, try it again later, love it, use it for years, get tired of it, try something else, miss gentoo, come back, try it again - that's usually how these things go. To each their own - personally, I miss it when I have to use something else. I'd tried ales in my younger days, didn't care for them, opted for stouts. Finally tried ale again, a good proper ale, and now a nice bitter is all I'll drink.
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dump lspci -n here | see Pappy's guide | Link Stash |
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naturegirl
n00b
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Another linux fan here who has used several distros and also played with Gentoo several years ago.
The thing I had the most trouble with was installing X. I am used to reading through Documentation carefully and working
on the command line and with config files, but I remember everytime I installed X there were some strange problems and crashs.
Just a few days ago I installed Gentoo again to play with it, and after several years of Windows and Ubuntu usage I thought X to have evolved to a much more
stable or easier installation, but still... there were strange seg faults and an unwillingness to let startx just happen successfully : (
Anyway, now it's working, and wish all new gentoo explorers lots of fun |
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Installing Gentoo
