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Dagger Retired Dev
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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who cares about 2007.1? Isn't it better to hope for a good 2008.0 release? _________________ 95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)
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bunder Bodhisattva
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: |
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merged some duplicate threads. _________________
Neddyseagoon wrote: | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dagger wrote: | who cares about 2007.1? Isn't it better to hope for a good 2008.0 release? |
Yeah ![Smile :)](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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guinness.stout Apprentice
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Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 237 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Naib wrote: | why do you need it?
is there some fandangled new piece of hardware that isnt supported by the 2007.0 liveCD meaning you cannot use that to install? |
Yes, many laptops that you have to boot from other LiveCD's with newer kernels in order to install Gentoo. |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah Knoppix can do the trick ![Smile :)](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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Monkeh Veteran
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Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 1656 Location: England
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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d2_racing wrote: | Yeah Knoppix can do the trick ![Smile :)](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
The latest Knoppix is from.. January. It really can't. |
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anton123 n00b
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Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 61 Location: Bucharest, Romania
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I really hope for a great 2008.0 release if the 2007.1 is out of question. I always use the LiveCD as I like to be presented with options that I can make use of, one of them being just testing the LiveCD on any Pentium 2 +/amd + machine. Besides, the GUI installer although complex in technical terms (not hard to use if you know what you do) is a welcome and pleasant addition in the way of installing Gentoo besides the traditional command line (again not hard to do if you know what you do but a nice GUI adds spice and makes the process faster to complete till install point). I REALLY hope that the GUI installer in 2008.0/2007.1 to be reliable and solid unlike the one in the 2007.0 version which was fundamentally buggy and unreliable. |
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meush n00b
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 8
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I use ubuntu now because it's the only linux I found that has fresh enough kernel to work well with my new hardware. LiveCD would be great for me, and for many other people.
I understand developers have their own lifes, too so take your time, but consider us, who really need LiveCD to install gentoo.
I know that when gentoo is already installed, release numbers make no sence, because emerging world does the trick. But don't make me use ubuntu please ![Smile :)](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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Simba7 l33t
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Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 706 Location: Billings, MT, USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ya. I can't wait 'til 2007.1 or 2008.0 comes out. My ppc (PMac 6500/300) doesn't like the kernel in 2007.0 for some strange reason. It freezes up after it finds the hard drive.
When I try out a different kernel (compiling Gentoo via Ubuntu), it works fine (kernel 2.6.20), but is a pain in the butt going through several more steps and getting the timing right. |
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Naib Watchman
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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you could always just boot off a different LiveCD (Ubuntu install CD for instance) then you just have to worry about the out-dated stage tarballs... which is the bigger issue if you ask me _________________
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tanderson Retired Dev
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 193
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Naib wrote: | you could always just boot off a different LiveCD (Ubuntu install CD for instance) then you just have to worry about the out-dated stage tarballs... which is the bigger issue if you ask me |
This really isn't a problem either with the _unofficial_ stages that drobbins is making. linkie here: http://funtoo.org/linux/ _________________ No Man is Just a Number!
--The Prisoner |
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concord Apprentice
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: release 2008 intead of 2008.0 please |
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Gentoo is a one install linux. After the first installation, people just change profile to update instead of one release one installation. But I think period release is still necessary and one year one release is enough. Why? the first reason is for new comer and second is for reinstall if some fatal things happen and can't be solved. So, I suggest gentoo to release 2008 instead of 2008.0 in next year. _________________ AMD64 Desktop
Pentium4 Laptop
Pentium3 Server |
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nixnut Bodhisattva
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Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 10974 Location: the dutch mountains
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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merged above post here. _________________ Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved. Help answer the unanswered
talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand |
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Simba7 l33t
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Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 706 Location: Billings, MT, USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: release 2008 intead of 2008.0 please |
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concord wrote: | Gentoo is a one install linux. After the first installation, people just change profile to update instead of one release one installation. But I think period release is still necessary and one year one release is enough. Why? the first reason is for new comer and second is for reinstall if some fatal things happen and can't be solved. So, I suggest gentoo to release 2008 instead of 2008.0 in next year. |
I prefer the .0 and .1 due to new hardware ALWAYS coming out.
Suppose you got a brand new chipset that isn't supported at all in Gentoo in early '08. So, in the middle of '08, they introduce .1 and support the chipset instead of waiting for next year. Makes more sense.
..not to mention other distros (*BSDs, Linux, etc) fix these problems every 4-6 months. Why not Gentoo? |
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poly_poly-man Advocate
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Posts: 2477 Location: RIT, NY, US
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: release 2008 intead of 2008.0 please |
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concord wrote: | Gentoo is a one install linux. After the first installation, people just change profile to update instead of one release one installation. But I think period release is still necessary and one year one release is enough. Why? the first reason is for new comer and second is for reinstall if some fatal things happen and can't be solved. So, I suggest gentoo to release 2008 instead of 2008.0 in next year. |
I disagree. Think about it - new profile brings new stage tarballs and new livecd's. Right now I hear that there is some big expat thing that needs a bit of a workaround to solve. A new livecd/stage tarbllas would REALLY help, especially because I'm going to have to do a new install soon (New mobo/CPU, etc.). Well, you can't just hope that nothing will happen in 2008 - you have to be ready, in case gcc 5 or expat 3 or whatever comes out - and it breaks again...
I kind of wish we at least got new livecd's/tarballs more often. New profiles can wait, of course - their a bit hairy to change
Profile: 2007.0
LiveCd used to install this system: 2006.1
poly-p man _________________ iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA
avatar: new version of logo - see topic 838248. Potentially still a WiP. |
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drwook Veteran
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Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 1324 Location: London
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: release 2008 intead of 2008.0 please |
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poly_poly-man wrote: | concord wrote: | Gentoo is a one install linux. After the first installation, people just change profile to update instead of one release one installation. But I think period release is still necessary and one year one release is enough. Why? the first reason is for new comer and second is for reinstall if some fatal things happen and can't be solved. So, I suggest gentoo to release 2008 instead of 2008.0 in next year. |
I disagree. Think about it - new profile brings new stage tarballs and new livecd's. Right now I hear that there is some big expat thing that needs a bit of a workaround to solve. A new livecd/stage tarbllas would REALLY help, especially because I'm going to have to do a new install soon (New mobo/CPU, etc.). Well, you can't just hope that nothing will happen in 2008 - you have to be ready, in case gcc 5 or expat 3 or whatever comes out - and it breaks again...
I kind of wish we at least got new livecd's/tarballs more often. New profiles can wait, of course - their a bit hairy to change
Profile: 2007.0
LiveCd used to install this system: 2006.1
poly-p man |
so grab any old cd and drobbin's stage 3 tarball (or whatever) then. |
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Naib Watchman
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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gentoofan23 wrote: | Naib wrote: | you could always just boot off a different LiveCD (Ubuntu install CD for instance) then you just have to worry about the out-dated stage tarballs... which is the bigger issue if you ask me |
This really isn't a problem either with the _unofficial_ stages that drobbins is making. linkie here: http://funtoo.org/linux/ |
true, but again gentoo is relying on someone elses install medium to get an install done. Last time was with the JMicron controllers _________________
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Naib,
... Gentoo and other distros rely on someone elses kernel, KDE, GNOME, etc.
Why is an installer any different ? _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Naib Watchman
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Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6053 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon wrote: | Naib,
... Gentoo and other distros rely on someone elses kernel, KDE, GNOME, etc.
Why is an installer any different ? |
OK following this arguements expected path
Why should Gentoo provide any installCD and just tell users to download... Ubuntu's installCD and install from the LiveDesktop terminal.
Because you can imagine the Slashdot,Ubuntu forums, linux.com heading.... "Gentoo to cheap/rubbish to provide their own install medium"
ok maybe an exaggeration, cause personally I don't use the Gentoo liveCD I prefer the systemrescue liveCD (since I carry that) if I need todo an install. HOWEVER... when it comes to linux distro's certain stereotypes have been formed, a installCD is available...
LiveCD aside the more serious point...
why should Gentoo make Stage install tarballs cause users can just download the source from mirrors... (since you did state:rely on someone elses kernel, KDE, GNOME, etc.) then we just end up with LFS and then the question has to be asked Whats the point of Gentoo then? if you end up having to install a basesystem the LFS method because no stageball exists before you can wget portage why bother?
Sure you will now mention that DRobbin's have provided a stage tarball. Great! finally a tarball that doesn't have the expat breakage builtin, so why can the gentoo dev's update theirs (since this is a serious breakage). And more to the point what if DRobbins didn't make such a tarball? _________________
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Simba7 l33t
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon wrote: | Naib,
... Gentoo and other distros rely on someone elses kernel, KDE, GNOME, etc.
Why is an installer any different ? |
I don't use an installer.. I use a minimal x86 (or ppc) CD to install Gentoo.. |
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Naib,
My own view is that an installer is not nessacary or even desirable for gentoo. A minimal CD of the tools required to do the rest by hand ensures that users gain some understanding of the maintanence process they will use on Gentoo before they have their precious data on it.
Gentoo should not have an installer as it provides users with a false sense of security.
That leaves us with some minimal toolkit of some sort to do the install, akin to the (outdated) minimal CD we do have.
Clearly, even this has never suited everyone or the alternate install guide would not exist.
I like you analagy with LFS. Isn't Gentoo LFS+Portage.
Gentoo Installer Releases serve as a focal point for publicity, little more. _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
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those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Naib Watchman
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon wrote: | Naib,
My own view is that an installer is not nessacary or even desirable for gentoo. A minimal CD of the tools required to do the rest by hand ensures that users gain some understanding of the maintanence process they will use on Gentoo before they have their precious data on it.
Gentoo should not have an installer as it provides users with a false sense of security. |
Are you talking about the GTK/curses-based click-n-install? or the bootable CD to provide the user with a linux terminal (cause to be fair that is all that is needed for a gentoo install: minimal hardware support, coreutils:fstab,e2progs,chroot,wget...)
Quote: |
That leaves us with some minimal toolkit of some sort to do the install, akin to the (outdated) minimal CD we do have.
Clearly, even this has never suited everyone or the alternate install guide would not exist. |
exactly hence why I mentioned the extreme case of slashdot ridiculing gentoo for relying on another distro's install medium. Gentoo LiveCD isn't a requirement, but it is a nicety. would it be better if gentoo adopted the systemrescue liveCD as the liveCD of choice (it is gentoo based iirc)
Quote: |
I like you analagy with LFS. Isn't Gentoo LFS+Portage.
Gentoo Installer Releases serve as a focal point for publicity, little more. | I have always thought gentoo was just LFS+portage & baselayout/patches.
Stage tarballs are more what I am concerned with in all fairness and while I am not saying they should be updated nightly likewise they shouldn't just be updated due to the release cycle of the "installer CD" if that is the title f
But you are right NeddySeagoon and I conceed to you
/me bows _________________
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miso5 n00b
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 8 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Not need live cd but it need CD that will have installer and handbook.
If you will not see it in graphic or semi-graphic gui. I can live with that even I can write more command as long as it will not be plenty ways ok.
I Just want something stable and without known bugs.
So as I sayed about opensuse 10.3 When distribution is still on testing. It doesn't have to go out.
My problem is that kernel in old-ones doesnt support mine raid.
Although I am angry with Ubuntu only m problem now is the question if to wait or change to some temporary distro till that. _________________ KK |
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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miso5,
Shrink your Ubuntu install and install Gentoo, using your Ubuntu as a toolkit.
You can use Ubuntu to read the manual.
Gentoo needs a considerable investment in time to learn, its not really suitable as a 'temporary distro'.
However, installing beside Ubuntu gives you plenty of time. It will also give you todays Gentoo.
Keep in mind that Gentoo is not really a distro, its a set of tools that you use to make your own distro.
======== edit ========
This thread discusses installing from Ubuntu _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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miso5 n00b
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 8 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon:
Ive got gentoo on another PC (In another country).
If I want temporary distribution I mean distribution till new gentoo will be released.
because I am upset by ubuntu. I can read manual whle instaling but my problem is still the kernel. _________________ KK |
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