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Gentree
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Posts: 5350
Location: France, Old Europe
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 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| seppe wrote: |
I'm still alive, but I have holidays, I'm home alone, I got some work for school and I'm addicted to World of Warcraft 
About the hosting: I'm moving to another host which gives me more than twice the webspace and bandwidth for half the price I pay now. |
Good to know you did not leave with the Pope I was getting worried.
This kernel is top grade nitrous so I'm not clamouring for a new release yet , I'll get a chance to fiddle with the rest of the system. But I had hoped you were doing something useful with yourself not just wasting time playing games. Pah!
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b3cks
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1481
Location: Bremen (GER)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Gentree wrote: | | seppe wrote: |
I'm still alive, but I have holidays, I'm home alone, I got some work for school and I'm addicted to World of Warcraft
About the hosting: I'm moving to another host which gives me more than twice the webspace and bandwidth for half the price I pay now. |
But I had hoped you were doing something useful with yourself not just wasting time playing games. Pah!
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 *lol* But good news seppe is alive and nothing happend to him as some users thought.
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Lenz
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1439
Location: Marburg [HE, D, EU]
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| seppe wrote: | | I'm moving to another host which gives me more than twice the webspace and bandwidth for half the price I pay now. |
I could always mirror your stuff on my webspace, if you want. That would save you traffic.
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smg
Veteran
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 1402
Location: /home/stephan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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hi seppe, how about a new nitro? 
cheers
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b3cks
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1481
Location: Bremen (GER)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Lenz wrote: | | seppe wrote: | | I'm moving to another host which gives me more than twice the webspace and bandwidth for half the price I pay now. |
I could always mirror your stuff on my webspace, if you want. That would save you traffic. |
Of course I can mirror too.
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discomfitor
l33t
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 927
Location: None
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
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I've got some good news and some bad news. Due to some issues which have come up recently and my involvement in the wine project (I'm a supermaintainer for World of Warcraft, for those of you who don't know), I find that my free time is being consumed at a rate which I find unacceptable.
Not only that, but there have been a lot of problems which have arisen lately as a result of my affiliation with patchsets, and I find myself wasting time defending my actions on this front instead of actually being productive. In addition, the stress that accompanies each release (will it work or not) and the stress resulting in defending myself from personal attacks has reached the point where I no longer feel the need to think about it. If I were to continue, I can guarantee that my work would be less than satisfactory, both to you the user and me as a developer. I suppose the final straw is my dissatisfaction with the "ricer4" filesystem which is most likely the primary draw to the project. I have never really supported it, but there reaches a point when it just angers me to even read its name since approximately 70% of all nitro-related problems stem from this "speed-boosting" feature.
It's not that I think nitro is unworthy of my time, but I feel that my time can be better utilized elsewhere. As a result, I have no choice but to leave the project for the time being. I'm not sure if I will return at any point (I can say that at this very moment I have no intention of doing so), but I know for certain that at this point in time, I have no intentions of doing any more kernel-related work.
To all the people who appreciated the work I did, I thank you. To all the people who wrote to me and told me not to give up, I thank you. I'll still be here, lurking around on the forums, but somehow I doubt that I will be reading the Unsupported Software forums very often, especially since I usually can't even be bothered to read the other forums most of the time.
I am not telling anyone not to use nitro, even though you probably wouldn't listen to me if I did. You use nitro because you like it, and that's fine. The same goes for people who use other patchsets besides the "great and powerful" nitro-sources.
But perhaps it might be worth considering something: do you really need the patchset you use? I mean, do you use all of its features? I never did. If I was left to myself, I could use plain old ck-sources.
fbsplash? vesafb-tng?
Sure, they might look good, but what's the point since (if you're like me) you probably only see your console when you start up. Are those fifteen seconds really going to change your life if there's a picture of something behind the text as it scrolls? Moreover, if you're at all like me, you probably don't even watch it boot up. You turn it on and then go to the john or something, returning to fire up X.
ricer4(reiser4)?
Chances are that you could use reiser3 with less difficulty and an almost unnoticible amount of slowdown. Remember that the physical specifications of a drive will limit its speed anyway. If you want fast disk access, go buy yourself a couple SATA drives.
software suspend/win4lin?
This is quite possibly the only feature of patchsets that I could see as being useful. If you have a laptop, swsusp2 could save you battery power. Win4lin might be necessary for something that wine can't cover at the moment.
mm/lkml patches?
Do you actually know what they do? If not, you don't need them. Same goes for almost all lkml patches other than security fixes. Some of the patches in mm would make your hair stand on end if you actually saw the changes in them!
Plugsched?
The only real use I could see for this on normal computers would be if you alternated it between being a dedicated server and being a desktop. Somehow, I don't think there are many people like that in the world though. Pick a scheduler and stick with it. If you want a desktop machine, go with staircase with schediso/schedbatch. If you want a server, stick with the default scheduler or use staircase with interactive mode disabled (ck-server patchset). That simple.
Genetic *?
I think the real issue with this is that Moilanen wrote it up too well when he first released it. I'm not making any sort of personal attack on him, I just can't see genetic scheduling as being useful in any application except for perhaps a dedicated server. | Jack Moilanen wrote: | | The patch is very useful for specific workloads that are difficult to tune. |
I'd imagine that he didn't mean desktops when he said "specific workloads" on his web site.
inotify?
This is perhaps the easiest patch in the universe to apply. Just download the appropriate one and give it a little nudge. Smooth as butter.
Realtime scheduling?
Another one that just sounds good. Any performance gain that you notice while using this is likely to be merely a figment of your imagination. Hell, I do professional-grade audio work on my box and couldn't even tell the difference when I used a realtime-enabled kernel!
Again, I am not saying that you shouldn't use your current patchset, whatever that may be. But consider whether or not you need all the features in it. If the answer is no, you could probably go with ck-sources, or gentoo-sources and not notice the difference. They actually work. No, really!
This is not an attack on patchset maintainers here. I was one for a while. Remember? It's tough work, and they put in a lot of time to get things up and running. I applaud you for your work.
If the reason why you use a particular patchset is because you want to support someone's hobby (because that's all this is), then good for you. Any problems you notify them about will serve as a good way for the maintainer to further their knowledge of patching kernels.
I really only intended to say goodbye and announce my resignation in this post, but it seems to have turned into something else. I'll stop now and finish up.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
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stalynx
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| thanks Darckness for all the work you put into nitro and good luck to you in your future endeavors. |
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Tiger683
Veteran
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Ok, that most likely says everything...
I respect darckness for who he is and HOW he is, therefore anyone who will try to flame here about his statements: beat it!
Darckness was the person who first slipped me into the patchset "scene" and i came back after the pause since the "dark ages" of patching the 2.4
kernels... I only would thank him for all he did as well and hope he can utilize his skills even better in the wine project.
*one minute of silence*
cheers
T
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gentoo_lan
l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Charles Town, WV
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Darckness I may have not agreed with some of the ways Nitro changed in the past bit but you will definitely be sorely missed by all Nitro users. Good luck on your future endevors. |
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predatorfreak
l33t
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 708
Location: USA, Michigan.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Darckness wrote: | I've got some good news and some bad news. Due to some issues which have come up recently and my involvement in the wine project (I'm a supermaintainer for World of Warcraft, for those of you who don't know), I find that my free time is being consumed at a rate which I find unacceptable.
Not only that, but there have been a lot of problems which have arisen lately as a result of my affiliation with patchsets, and I find myself wasting time defending my actions on this front instead of actually being productive. In addition, the stress that accompanies each release (will it work or not) and the stress resulting in defending myself from personal attacks has reached the point where I no longer feel the need to think about it. If I were to continue, I can guarantee that my work would be less than satisfactory, both to you the user and me as a developer. I suppose the final straw is my dissatisfaction with the "ricer4" filesystem which is most likely the primary draw to the project. I have never really supported it, but there reaches a point when it just angers me to even read its name since approximately 70% of all nitro-related problems stem from this "speed-boosting" feature.
It's not that I think nitro is unworthy of my time, but I feel that my time can be better utilized elsewhere. As a result, I have no choice but to leave the project for the time being. I'm not sure if I will return at any point (I can say that at this very moment I have no intention of doing so), but I know for certain that at this point in time, I have no intentions of doing any more kernel-related work.
To all the people who appreciated the work I did, I thank you. To all the people who wrote to me and told me not to give up, I thank you. I'll still be here, lurking around on the forums, but somehow I doubt that I will be reading the Unsupported Software forums very often, especially since I usually can't even be bothered to read the other forums most of the time.
I am not telling anyone not to use nitro, even though you probably wouldn't listen to me if I did. You use nitro because you like it, and that's fine. The same goes for people who use other patchsets besides the "great and powerful" nitro-sources.
But perhaps it might be worth considering something: do you really need the patchset you use? I mean, do you use all of its features? I never did. If I was left to myself, I could use plain old ck-sources.
fbsplash? vesafb-tng?
Sure, they might look good, but what's the point since (if you're like me) you probably only see your console when you start up. Are those fifteen seconds really going to change your life if there's a picture of something behind the text as it scrolls? Moreover, if you're at all like me, you probably don't even watch it boot up. You turn it on and then go to the john or something, returning to fire up X.
ricer4(reiser4)?
Chances are that you could use reiser3 with less difficulty and an almost unnoticible amount of slowdown. Remember that the physical specifications of a drive will limit its speed anyway. If you want fast disk access, go buy yourself a couple SATA drives.
software suspend/win4lin?
This is quite possibly the only feature of patchsets that I could see as being useful. If you have a laptop, swsusp2 could save you battery power. Win4lin might be necessary for something that wine can't cover at the moment.
mm/lkml patches?
Do you actually know what they do? If not, you don't need them. Same goes for almost all lkml patches other than security fixes. Some of the patches in mm would make your hair stand on end if you actually saw the changes in them!
Plugsched?
The only real use I could see for this on normal computers would be if you alternated it between being a dedicated server and being a desktop. Somehow, I don't think there are many people like that in the world though. Pick a scheduler and stick with it. If you want a desktop machine, go with staircase with schediso/schedbatch. If you want a server, stick with the default scheduler or use staircase with interactive mode disabled (ck-server patchset). That simple.
Genetic *?
I think the real issue with this is that Moilanen wrote it up too well when he first released it. I'm not making any sort of personal attack on him, I just can't see genetic scheduling as being useful in any application except for perhaps a dedicated server. | Jack Moilanen wrote: | | The patch is very useful for specific workloads that are difficult to tune. |
I'd imagine that he didn't mean desktops when he said "specific workloads" on his web site.
inotify?
This is perhaps the easiest patch in the universe to apply. Just download the appropriate one and give it a little nudge. Smooth as butter.
Realtime scheduling?
Another one that just sounds good. Any performance gain that you notice while using this is likely to be merely a figment of your imagination. Hell, I do professional-grade audio work on my box and couldn't even tell the difference when I used a realtime-enabled kernel!
Again, I am not saying that you shouldn't use your current patchset, whatever that may be. But consider whether or not you need all the features in it. If the answer is no, you could probably go with ck-sources, or gentoo-sources and not notice the difference. They actually work. No, really!
This is not an attack on patchset maintainers here. I was one for a while. Remember? It's tough work, and they put in a lot of time to get things up and running. I applaud you for your work.
If the reason why you use a particular patchset is because you want to support someone's hobby (because that's all this is), then good for you. Any problems you notify them about will serve as a good way for the maintainer to further their knowledge of patching kernels.
I really only intended to say goodbye and announce my resignation in this post, but it seems to have turned into something else. I'll stop now and finish up.
So long, and thanks for all the fish. |
So long darckness, have fun with wine. Also, I agree with ALL of those statements. No, I'm not going to pimp -dark as an alternative to nitro right now.
_________________
System: predatorbox
Distro: Arch Linux x86_64
Current projects: blackhole, convmedia and anything else I cook up. |
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b3cks
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1481
Location: Bremen (GER)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I join the other posters above.
Thank you Darckness for all your work here, you put in the nitro-sources!!
Have fun with your other projects and don't get to busy. It's not healthy!!
Cheers...
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I am /root and if you see me laughing you better have a backup. |
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seppe
Guru
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 431
Location: Hove, Antwerp, Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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You did a great job, Darckness. Good luck with the wine project!
_________________
nitro-sources, because between stable and experimental there exists only speed
Latest release I made: 2.6.13.2-nitro1 |
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Lenz
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1439
Location: Marburg [HE, D, EU]
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Will there be new nitro-releases, nevertheless, seppe?
_________________
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| Gentoo Linux since v1.4 (08-2003) [Screenshot]
| NetHack Highscore: 5.476.380 Pts., Val-Dwa-Fem-Law, ~ ascended to demigoddess-hood ~ |
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seppe
Guru
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 431
Location: Hove, Antwerp, Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Lenz wrote: | | Will there be new nitro-releases, nevertheless, seppe? |
Some day ... time is the problem. :-/
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nitro-sources, because between stable and experimental there exists only speed
Latest release I made: 2.6.13.2-nitro1 |
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Frodg
l33t
Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 761
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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And Oh Brother, does the wine project need HELP....
Will Darckness bring light to this project... I hope so.
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Aerosolo ergo sum - I spray therefore I am
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bookstack
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone got swsuspend work ?
When I hibernate in console mode, here is an exception when "Seeking to enter acpi state".
I use the old configuration in 2.6.9-nitrox age like this:
| Code: |
UseSwsusp2 yes
Reboot no
EnableEscape yes
DefaultConsoleLevel 1
SuspendDevice swap:/dev/hda2
PowerdownMethod 4
Verbosity 0
LogFile /var/log/hibernate.log
LogVerbosity 1
Bootsplash on
SaveClock yes
UnloadModules snd_intel8x0
GentooModulesAutoload yes
RestartServices alsasound local
SwitchToTextMode yes
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And here is the kerenl configuration:
| Code: |
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND2=y
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND2_BUILTIN=y
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_SWAPWRITER=y
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_LZF_COMPRESSION=y
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_TEXT_MODE=y
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_DEFAULT_RESUME2="/dev/hda2"
# CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_KEEP_IMAGE is not set
CONFIG_SOFTWARE_SUSPEND_CHECK_RESUME_SAFE=y
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I have enabled acpi of the kernel, of course. |
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Tiger683
Veteran
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hey,
as i'm still, technically, a part of nitro team(?), id like to ask if you people
desire another 2.6.11-based release or maybe a 2.6.12-rc2-nitro1 ?
cheers,
T
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hermes_jr
l33t
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger683 wrote: | id like to ask if you people
desire another 2.6.11-based release or maybe a 2.6.12-rc2-nitro1 ?
|
Poll in OTW maybe... 
NITRO! NITRO! NITRO! |
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jdkbx
n00b
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger683 wrote: | Hey,
as i'm still, technically, a part of nitro team(?), id like to ask if you people
desire another 2.6.11-based release or maybe a 2.6.12-rc2-nitro1 ?
cheers,
T |
as my main motivation to use nitro is the integrated software suspend2 i'd like to see 2.6.12-rc2-nitro1.
i usually switch between gentoo sources (patched with swsusp2 by myself) and nitro (if its stable). i dont need most of that other stuff, so i appreciate nitro-sources for swsusp2 alone. everything else is just nice, but not necessary, even doe i really like the eye candy (custom logo and fbsplash).
if i dont want to go with vanilla, i cant use the latest swsusp2 without puttin in much of my own time, so i'd like to see 2.6.12-rc2-nitro1 while gentoo-sources are still at 2.6.11.6.
anyway, nice work |
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Tiger683
Veteran
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, the decision was most likely done before i even asked.
And one more thing:
I'm doing this on the same base seppe does, so no breaking stuff like in my experiments i do lately
without any involvement of nitro
So, shortly said: new nitro is on it's way already, although any proposals of mirroring would be much appreciated.
cheers
T
PS: yeah, SWSUSP2 will be in, although as always untested, this will be your job guys
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b3cks
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1481
Location: Bremen (GER)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger683 wrote: | | any proposals of mirroring would be much appreciated. |
*waving* Here!
Two proposals:
1. I create an account on my server for you where you can upload the files or
2. you'll give me the links of the files I should mirror.
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Tiger683
Veteran
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, that was fast.... 
Ok, we'll stick to the second for now, ill host it on jadex sf.net account or my geocities one until nitro gets approved on sf.net (2 days at most)
You'll notice when it's done
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Tiger683
Veteran
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for the doublepost...
The new nitro is coming sometime today, ill just have to come back from the university
and put the new alsa and logo in.
cheers
T
PS: anyone need CFLAGS selection or Varstacks? otherwise it won't be in....
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hermes_jr
l33t
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger683 wrote: |
PS: anyone need CFLAGS selection or Varstacks? otherwise it won't be in.... |
Yep. Both. |
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Tiger683
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1347
Location: Heffner's House
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: |
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O_o .....
Err, ok, anyone else?
Ill make these features as a use flag i think....
cheers
T
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