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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:42 am Post subject: Fonts in Browsers and gtk2 are not so good looking. |
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Well. @home I have an gentoo box and @work I use an bleeding edge unstable Debian. I must admit, the fonts at the debian box are beautiful in mozilla, mozilla-firebird or konqueror (now using only firebird).
@home the gentoo box does not display so well looking fonts in webpages, often they are too small or too big.
My question is, has anybody a gentoo font setup delivering similair results as a actual debian box and knows that because he/she is using both systems?
Is taking screenshots of the sometimes whacky webpages worth a shot?
For example firebird on debian displays two identical well looking fonts on
http://bluebell.marzen.de:81/ttftest.html
My gentoo firebird displays the first font otherwise, a bigger ugly looking default font with more serifes (Times?).
Generally gtk2 fonts (menu for example) are a bit too tiny. These look perfect at debian too. Thats no rant at all, debian is only an example and I know from many other computers...
Both boxes use same dpi resolution (75dpi)...
Does anybody know what I mean?
regards, Konsti
Last edited by Konsti on Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:45 am; edited 2 times in total |
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b3
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 90
Location: Lowell, MA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fonts in WebBrowsers are not so good. |
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| Konsti wrote: | My question is, has anybody a gentoo font setup delivering similair results as a actual debian box and knows that because he/she is using both systems?
Is taking screenshots of the sometimes whacky webpages worth a shot?
For example firebird on debian displays two identical well looking fonts on
http://bluebell.marzen.de:81/ttftest.html
My gentoo firebird displays the first font otherwise, a bigger ugly looking default font with more serifes (Times?). |
A screenshot would probably be helpful - so that we can see what you're seeing.
That particular page just displays one line in the "default" font (which you should be able to set in your settings) and one line in verdana. If you set your default font to verdana, both lines should appear identical in your browser.
| Konsti wrote: | Generally gtk2 fonts (menu for example) are a bit too tiny. These look perfect at debian too. Thats no rant at all, debian is only an example and I know from many other computers...
Both boxes use same dpi resolution (75dpi)...
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I think it may be a dpi issue -- as I use KDE, and setting gconf's dpi to either "normal" setting (75, 96) causes very strange or wacky font sizes - setting it somewhere in the 80s makes fonts the same size (roughly) as they are in KDE. I'm trying to find out where you set a similar setting for QT apps under Gnome, but haven't had any luck as yet.
Ideally, setting both systems' dpi to the same value (which in my case *should* be 96 (1280x1024 19" lcd) ) would produce the same output - unfortunately this isn't the case at the moment...at least in my limited experience. |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fonts in WebBrowsers are not so good. |
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| b3 wrote: |
A screenshot would probably be helpful - so that we can see what you're seeing.
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Yes, I will provide one or two this evening. We all will have to use our crystal balls otherwise 
| b3 wrote: |
That particular page just displays one line in the "default" font (which you should be able to set in your settings) and one line in verdana. If you set your default font to verdana, both lines should appear identical in your browser. |
Thats the point, or, when I don't want to tell the browser, where does debian/gentoo place the information for that obviously different default font?
| Konsti wrote: |
Both boxes use same dpi resolution (75dpi)...
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Ok, that was a lie. My debian box @work does 100DPI, checked the log now.
BUT, when I set dpi to 100 at home on gentoo, all standart gtk fonts look like
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=64205&highlight=mozilla+fonts
not only the browsers' fonts.
That is the cause why I got used to override the calculated DPI and nailed the Xserver down to 75DPI. Are you people running mostly 100DPI without these lego-fonts?
Is that tracing down the error in some way? Because, debian calculates 100DPI at 1280x1024 on 18" TFT and does @home at 1280x960 at 19" CRT. Both calculations are probably correct and should than look similair, which they do not  |
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b3
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 90
Location: Lowell, MA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Fonts in WebBrowsers are not so good. |
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| Konsti wrote: | | b3 wrote: |
That particular page just displays one line in the "default" font (which you should be able to set in your settings) and one line in verdana. If you set your default font to verdana, both lines should appear identical in your browser. |
Thats the point, or, when I don't want to tell the browser, where does debian/gentoo place the information for that obviously different default font?
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The browser itself is responsible for it's own default font. Gentoo/Debian don't set those AFAIK - it's part of the browser itself. For Mozilla, you set the default font from Edit->Preferences->Appearance->Fonts. For Firebird, I believe it's Tools->Options->Fonts. You can also set the appropriate preferences in the user.js or set up userChrome.css to lay things out how you'd like. There should be versions of those in your ~/.mozilla or ~/.phoenix trees, or you can hunt up the system-wide files to make system-wide changes.
Hmm...if you emerge switch and switch2, then use those to set up reasonably-sized fonts for GTK and GTK2 respectively, does it help? Have you played with the dpi setting from gconf-editor to see if you can get things looking reasonable? |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fonts in WebBrowsers are not so good. |
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| b3 wrote: |
The browser itself is responsible for it's own default font.
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Yes, but on both systems I run self compiled cvs trees, so they must be both broken or fine if its the browsers' fault. On both I don't touch the font setup and they look different.
| b3 wrote: |
Hmm...if you emerge switch and switch2, then use those to set up reasonably-sized fonts for GTK and GTK2 respectively, does it help? Have you played with the dpi setting from gconf-editor to see if you can get things looking reasonable? |
I am going to drive home now and will investigate this gconf setting and the switch thing... very interesting... *mumblegrumble*
Konsti |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Well, gconf has 96dpi configured.
http://www.ludenkalle.de/ss75dpi.png
This one is startx -- -dpi 75, as you see all fonts are a bit too small, gtk2 default, menus and webpages.
http://www.ludenkalle.de/ssAUTOdpi.png
This is auto dpi setting
| Code: |
dimensions: 1600x1400 pixels (363x271 millimeters)
resolution: 112x131 dots per inch
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here the Fonts seem to be unnessecearly with serifes too...
By the way, why is the resolution calculated with the nv driver with the Virtual resolution?
And as you see everyletter is far to big and seems to be bold instead of normal somehow.
Forcing 100dpi makes the letters a bit smaller but they still seem to be bold.
I don't know where to search the error.
Konsti |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:44 am Post subject: debian gentoo2 screenshot |
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I am running my X Server with dpi calculation algorythm on and it chooses 13x130 dpi, calculated with the virtual resolution, well....
I must admit, fonts in browser are generally readable now but somehow weird.
gtk standart menu font is _huge_...
Today I tried getting fonts from xfs, but it looks similair...
[img:0d053261fe]http://www.ludenkalle.de/ssdeb.png[/img:0d053261fe]
[img:0d053261fe]http://www.ludenkalle.de/testdeb.png[/img:0d053261fe]
Debian, well looking at www.heise.de
[img:0d053261fe]http://www.ludenkalle.de/ssg2.png[/img:0d053261fe]
[img:0d053261fe]http://www.ludenkalle.de/testg2.png[/img:0d053261fe]
gentoo, somehow useless serifes and bold
The debian screenshots are taken with mozilla displayed of another debian box on my gentoo XServer... (ssh -X mozilla).
Konsti, desperated |
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iwasbiggs
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:33 am Post subject: |
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It looks like the gentoo box has bytecode on or off (whatever is opposite the Debian box). You can try USE="[-]cjk" emerge freetype, and that might help things. I forget how the exact thing works, but that seems to be your difference. Before fonts are changed, you must close down all applications using the free type then re-open them to see the differences from the new emerge. Try playing with that flag.
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aethyr
Veteran
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 1085
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:42 am Post subject: |
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it's not cjk anymore, look at the freetype 2.1.4 ebuild: | Code: | | use prebuilt || append-flags "${CFLAGS} -DTT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER" |
or the changelog: | Code: | 10 Apr 2003; foser <foser@gentoo.org> freetype-2.1.4.ebuild :
Changed bytecode to be only disabled when prebuilt in USE |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:27 am Post subject: cjk |
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| iwasbiggs wrote: | | Try playing with that flag. |
Hm, ok, I had cjk switched off. Is switching it on the usual way?
I am now emerging freetype xfree pango gtk+ fontconfig in this order, we will see what happens. But the only Package using cjk is xfree itself... I also switched truetype off now (to get rid of msttcorefonts).
Is disabling gtk a good Idea or not? It has been disabled for ages now here, could this cause such a Problem?
Konsti |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:18 am Post subject: You got it! |
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| iwasbiggs wrote: | | It looks like the gentoo box has bytecode on or off (whatever is opposite the Debian box). |
As a shoot into the dark I introduced the cjk flak and reemerged fontconfig and freetype and fonts are lloking reasonable again in webpages. After X restart gtk2 too looked reasonable well! HELL!
*kiss* *kiss* *kiss* 
I inspected the ebuilds, and I don't know really why reemerging of freetype and fontconfig (and fc-cache -f) helped, but I will investigate after work this evening and emerge more stuff with this flag on.
Konsti |
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Slack006
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 97
Location: Desert of AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Where do you set the DPI for your x server?
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Slack
May the SOURCE be with you... |
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Konsti
l33t
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:53 am Post subject: |
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I searched for a pendant of Debian's /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc (They do it there) but gentoo has no such file. So I use One has to get used to that, but after a couple of days...
K |
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Slack006
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 97
Location: Desert of AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Well, you can change it right in the startx script. Problem is, I don't use start x I boot into a gdm, so never type startx at the prompt... It works fine if I start it from the prompt... Just can't get it to go in the gdm...
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sa
Guru
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:07 am Post subject: |
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to make your fonts look even better try this:
| Code: | emerge media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera
wget http://www.gnome.org/fonts/local.conf
mv -i local.conf /etc/fonts/local.conf
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pi-cubic
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Slack006 wrote: | | Well, you can change it right in the startx script... |
do you mean the ~/.xinitrc or the .xserverrc or another "startx script"?
greez,
pi-cubiq |
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Slack006
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 97
Location: Desert of AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Pi: I mean in the "startx" script...
Sa: That sounds interesting. I'll let you know how that does for me.  Thanks for the hint.
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NegaBenji
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Can someone tell me where I set the DPI for GTK apps? I don't actually have gnome emerged so I don't have gnome-font-properties, but all my gtk apps (like Firefox, GIMP etc) have ridiculously huge fonts in the interface. All my Qt stuff in kde is fine - I just need to know where I can edit the gtk dpi setting without having to emerge all of gnome...  |
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