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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 12:45 am    Post subject: GentooBSD Reply with quote

The official announcement:
I've gotten portage on Gentoo/BSD working. Not all ebuilds work, and i haven't gotten init to build (a required dep fails)

the project page is at http://jeter.dyndns.org
I'm looking for people to fix ebuilds mainly as portage, etc seem to be pretty portable. I haven't had a chance to deal with sandbox either
the irc channel is #gentoo-bsd (creative, huh) on freenode.
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idl
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great work mate! I'm going to put FreeBSD back on my main box in a few weeks and i'll do some testing for you :) Once it gets stable i'll use it on my server.

EDIT: When I have the time i'd like to help wirth portage on the 4.x stable series :)

Cheers! :D
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dice
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8O

Do you think that you will eventualy be able to get it to the point where someone could just do a straight install from stage 1/2/3 with the FreeBSD kernel instead of the Linux kernel?
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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dice wrote:
8O

Do you think that you will eventualy be able to get it to the point where someone could just do a straight install from stage 1/2/3 with the FreeBSD kernel instead of the Linux kernel?


That's the goal. It may be a way off, though.
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mezz
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am having the problem to load your website, it always will finish half of it. I had to reload over three times and finally able to get the linking part, but still loading... Perhaps, sourceforge.net or nongnu.org host?

Quote:
Install these packages: autoconf, automake, bash, gcc (>=3.2), gettext, gmake, libtool, linux-base, m4, python, rsync, and wget.

1) GCC 3.x came with FreeBSD 5 by default.
2) Why does it needs the linux-base, anyway?

Quote:
Deal with files in differnt places. Most freeBSd apps default to installtion in /usr/local while gentoo defaults to /usr. As portage uses fixed paths this is a problem. I solved this by linking /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin and linkling /usr/local/lib and /usr/lib. in addition it may be necessary to link /lib to /usr/local/lib. you can also like individual apps, your

Hope, you can get it fixes in the portage instead linking them in future.


I wouldn't mind to give it a test if I have another box for it, because half of stuff (Linux-ish) already freak me out to not test on my two desktop boxes. ;)

Keep up with your work and process!

BTW: Hey (Howdy) port001! :)
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W
O
W

Great stuff gsfgf!

I'll be trying to secure a new machine at work over the next few weeks to test this on, for sure.

Btw, have you thought about how you're going to enable ebuilds to be cross platform for this? Like a 'freebsd' USE var? Obviously, some apps need patching to run on freebsd, or the other bsds.
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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charlieg wrote:
W
O
W

Great stuff gsfgf!

I'll be trying to secure a new machine at work over the next few weeks to test this on, for sure.

Btw, have you thought about how you're going to enable ebuilds to be cross platform for this? Like a 'freebsd' USE var? Obviously, some apps need patching to run on freebsd, or the other bsds.


I was hoping to add a PLATFORM variable. I need to discuss that kinda stuff with the portage devs.
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panserg
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there any plans to use Portage on win32, natively or in Cygwin?
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panserg wrote:
Are there any plans to use Portage on win32, natively or in Cygwin?


cgywin has a funky c library which makes it ungodly hard to build apps aginst it. any code ported to cgywin would need to be heavily modidfied.
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsfgf wrote:
I was hoping to add a PLATFORM variable. I need to discuss that kinda stuff with the portage devs.


How would this affect the KEYWORDS and ACCEPT_KEYWORDS variables? Would we possibly see things like:
Code:
KEYWORDS="Linux-x86 ~FreeBSD-x86 ~Linux-sparc FreeBSD-sparc"
Say, if a package worked for linux x86 and bsd-sparc, but not the others? Or did you having something else in mind.
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panserg
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsfgf wrote:
panserg wrote:
Are there any plans to use Portage on win32, natively or in Cygwin?


cgywin has a funky c library which makes it ungodly hard to build apps aginst it. any code ported to cgywin would need to be heavily modidfied.


Hold on, Portage is written on Python and Python is already ported to Cygwin. So... what is the difference between modifying Portage for BSD vs doing it for Cygwin?
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duff wrote:
gsfgf wrote:
I was hoping to add a PLATFORM variable. I need to discuss that kinda stuff with the portage devs.


How would this affect the KEYWORDS and ACCEPT_KEYWORDS variables? Would we possibly see things like:
Code:
KEYWORDS="Linux-x86 ~FreeBSD-x86 ~Linux-sparc FreeBSD-sparc"
Say, if a package worked for linux x86 and bsd-sparc, but not the others? Or did you having something else in mind.

This is why I think a USE var would be better.

USE="freebsd" or USE="linux" or USE="openbsd" or USE="netbsd" or (if you're that perverse) USE="win32".

Then ebuilds that have the "freebsd" USE var set will happily compile or patch themselves. Those that don't will complain, "This might not work on FreeBSD". The usage of "linux" as a USE var would be the default ie assumed.

This would require next-to or no modification of portage.

:)
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panserg wrote:

Hold on, Portage is written on Python and Python is already ported to Cygwin. So... what is the difference between modifying Portage for BSD vs doing it for Cygwin?


you can't build normal code, which means you can't build apps form source. Portage is kinda useles without packages to build.
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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duff wrote:
gsfgf wrote:
I was hoping to add a PLATFORM variable. I need to discuss that kinda stuff with the portage devs.


How would this affect the KEYWORDS and ACCEPT_KEYWORDS variables? Would we possibly see things like:
Code:
KEYWORDS="Linux-x86 ~FreeBSD-x86 ~Linux-sparc FreeBSD-sparc"
Say, if a package worked for linux x86 and bsd-sparc, but not the others? Or did you having something else in mind.


I was thinking
Code:

KEYWORDS="x86 ~ppc ~sparc"
PLATFORM="linux freebsd ~osx"


If either a platform or arch is masked then the pkg would be masked for that platform/arch.
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panserg
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use logical expressions (patterns) to gane fine-grained control. I think tilda is too obscured. KEYWORDS and PLATFORMS as words are too general. I would rather suggest something like:

Code:

STABLE_HARDWARE="x86"
UNSTABLE_HARDWARE="ppc sparc"
BROKEN_HARDWARE="mips"

STABLE_KERNEL="Linux"
UNSTABLE_KERNEL="BSD OSX March"
BROKEN_KERNEL="NT"


IMHO much more readable and very specific. But not perfect. Portage is based on Python, remember?

Here is the example based on dctionaries:

Code:

STABLE_PLATFORMS = {'kernels':["linux"], 'hardware':["x86"]}
UNSTABLE_PLATFORMS = {'kernels':["BSD", "OSX", "March"], 'hardware':["x86"]}
BROKEN_PLATFORMS = {'kernels':["NT"], 'hardware':["mips"]}


:idea:
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case if you want it in classes:

Code:

class platform:
    def __init__(self, supported_dict):
        self.kernels=supported_dict['kernels']
        self.hardware=supported_dict['hardware']


PLATFORMS = {'stable': platform({'kernels':["linux"], 'hardware':["x86"]}),
             'unstable': platform({'kernels':["BSD", "OSX", "March"],
                                   'hardware':["ppc", "sparc"]}),
             'broken': platform({'kernels':["NT"], 'hardware':["mips"]})}



:idea:
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dice wrote:
8O

Do you think that you will eventualy be able to get it to the point where someone could just do a straight install from stage 1/2/3 with the FreeBSD kernel instead of the Linux kernel?


Well, there are some stumbling blocks. First, you'd need an fdisk that allows one to go into interactive mode, and the FreeBSD fdisk doesn't allow interactive use. It's very cumbersome. But I think Linux's fdisk will allow one to create BSD labels and partitions, so I think you should be all right there. Then, one'd have to do
Code:
tunefs -n enable
on the partitition to enable softupdates.

Then, you'd need the required things for syscons, the syscons tools, such as kbdcontrol, vidcontrol, etc. I think that the goal would be to use as many of the standard GNU utils (instead of the BSD ones). Am I correct? The reason I ask is that the bsd fileutils (and the kernel/everything else) are in one big /usr/src, so unless you could find a way to package and update /usr/src/bin/ls, /usr/src/usr.bin/find, you'd probably be better off with the GNU version of fileutils.

One approach would be to set up a box that gets updated via cvsup, and have a script detect which "packages" from /usr/src need updated, and have the script tar/bzip stuff like /usr/src/bin/ls, /usr/src/usr.bin/find et. al. as bsdfileutils.tar.bz2. And don't forget that when the kernel gets updated, you've got to update top, w, ps, and libkvm (and possibly sysctl) as a whole. Doesn't sound insurmountable, though...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, it's been a while since anyone posted to this topic... I was just wondering how things are going on this project. (The project page seems to be up-and-down tonight.)

I am personally very interested in a sort of FreeBSD-from-source-with-portage, and I would love to help out on this project.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't see the point in freebsd + portage,cause imho freeebsd has it's own updated ports tree

but,i'm interested in [open/net]bsd + portage though
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mortix wrote:
i don't see the point in freebsd + portage,cause imho freeebsd has it's own updated ports tree

but,i'm interested in [open/net]bsd + portage though


OpenBSD and NetBSD also have their own ports tree. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mortix wrote:
i don't see the point in freebsd + portage,cause imho freeebsd has it's own updated ports tree


FreeBSD, along with the rest of the BSDs, have their own ports trees. However, there are 3 main reasons I am interested in this:

1. Gentoo's portage is seen by many as being more functional than FreeBSD's ports - USE flags, slots, along with easy syntax. I'm not going to list everything here because this is mentioned extensively elsewhere in the forums. (Of course, this point can be argued by both sides until both sides are blue in the face, and it is certainly not my intention to flame/troll/whatever. The simple truth is that there are 2 great ports systems out there, and there will be fans on both sides.)

2. FreeBSD installs *too much* as part of the base layout. As part of the base distribution, we get sendmail, BIND, and other 3rd-party packages, including a frequently out-of-date Perl. In my opinion, those tools simply don't belong there. For my BSD, I want the fine-grained control provided by the Gentoo portage system (as it's currently implemented with Gentoo/Linux). I want to be able to start with the bare minimums - binutils, coreutils, kernelutils, etc, and to chose my own SMTP, DNS, cron, etc tools - or choose not to have them at all. This is the flexibility provided by "The Gentoo Way", which is much needed with the FreeBSD OS.

3. Updating a Gentoo system is easier than a BSD system (opinion only - see disclaimers for 1). The core system for BSD is in a source tree in /usr/src, while the ports are, well, in ports. For Gentoo, all updates, no matter where the updates are are in one place - portage. This means only one place to manage security and feature updates for the entire system. Granted, the BSD way is not to difficult and is certainly workable, but the Gentoo way is IMHO better.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes,i do know that net/open bsd have their own ports tree,but as i mentioned above i meant _updated_ ports tree
and also the lack of portsupgrade in net/open bsd make them more difficult(compared to emerge -u world) to upgrade

however porting portage and _ALL_(so they can compile and run without the need of patching them for *bsd) the ebuilds to *bsd is a difficult task even if,for building it will be used th g* tools(gmake,gawk etc..)

but it will be verry rewarding also ;)

another ideea is to use the gentoo binaries and tools instead of redhat ones (of course we must enable COMPAT_LINUX in the kernel..is in GENERIC though) and every package we built with portage will run in linux emulation,so this avoids the task of patching the ebuild for *bsd

edit:
in bsd world there are FLAVORS witch does the same thing as USE flags,however it's much more simple/functional to update the portage way than the ports way...
yes,i dislike also the fact that the basic system comes with sendmail,bind and other thing that i dont use(in the *bsd world)...

and it will be verry cool if we can port portage(this is the main priority imho) to *bsd,in order to have a more powerfull/functional/alternative package management that runs on top of the bsd kernel and userland tools!!

disclaimer(sort of):
i like both worlds gnu/linux and bsd(and i use both gentoo and openbsd)

regards!!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
2. FreeBSD installs *too much* as part of the base layout. As part of the base distribution, we get sendmail, BIND, and other 3rd-party packages, including a frequently out-of-date Perl. In my opinion, those tools simply don't belong there. For my BSD, I want the fine-grained control provided by the Gentoo portage system (as it's currently implemented with Gentoo/Linux). I want to be able to start with the bare minimums - binutils, coreutils, kernelutils, etc, and to chose my own SMTP, DNS, cron, etc tools - or choose not to have them at all. This is the flexibility provided by "The Gentoo Way", which is much needed with the FreeBSD OS.


Various options in the FreeBSD make.conf file allow you to avoid compiling certain parts of the base system.

NO_CVS (bool) Set to not build CVS.
NO_BIND (bool) Set to not build BIND.
NO_FORTRAN (bool) Set to not build g77(1) and related libraries.
NO_GDB (bool) Set to not build gdb(1)
NO_I4B (bool) Set to not build isdn4bsd package.
NO_IPFILTER (bool) Set to not build IP Filter package.
NO_LPR (bool) Set to not build lpr(1) and related programs.
NO_MAILWRAPPER
(bool) Set to not build the mailwrapper(8) MTA selector.
NOMAN (bool) Set to not build manual pages
NO_MAKEDEV (bool) Set to avoid running ``MAKEDEV all'' on /dev during
install.
NO_OBJC (bool) Set to not build Objective C support.
NO_OPENSSH (bool) Set to not build OpenSSH.
NO_OPENSSL (bool) Set to not build OpenSSL (implies NO_OPENSSH).
NO_SENDMAIL (bool) Set to not build sendmail(8) and related programs.
NO_SHAREDOCS (bool) Set to not build the 4.4BSD legacy docs.
NO_TCSH (bool) Set to not build and install /bin/csh (which is
tcsh(1)). NO_X (bool) Set to not compile in X-Windows support (e.g.
doscmd(1)).
NOCRYPT (bool) Set to not build any crypto code.
NOGAMES (bool) Set to not build games.
NOINFO (bool) Set to not make or install info(5) files.
NOLIBC_R (bool) Set to not build libc_r (reentrant version of libc).
NOMANCOMPRESS
(bool) Set to install man pages uncompressed.
NOPERL (bool) Set to avoid building perl(1).
NOPROFILE (bool) Set to avoid compiling profiled libraries.
NOSECURE (bool) set to not build crypto code in secure subdir.
NOSHARE (bool) Set to not build in the share subdir.
NOUUCP (bool) Set to not build uucp(1) related programs.

From what I understand perl will be removed by default in 5.x and above for FreeBSD.

Quote:
The core system for BSD is in a source tree in /usr/src, while the ports are, well, in ports. For Gentoo, all updates, no matter where the updates are are in one place - portage.


Having the source for the base system in /usr/src makes perfect since to me on BSD. BSDs provide an entire operating system. Going into /usr/src on Linux to compile a kernel doesn't seem any different than going into /usr/src on FreeBSD to compile the world. At least not to me.

As for cron and other such utitilities. I'm not really sure what to say about these, they may be available in ports if they work on FreeBSD.

As for portage on FreeBSD, I have think that portage should be reduced to a package management system that integrates with ports. I don't think that it is necessary for portage to deal with building the base system on FreeBSD. I really cannot comment on NetBSD or OpenBSD as I have not used them. From what I understand however, these BSDs lack a make world type option in which case giving portage more control over the base makes more sense.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any progress with this one?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't access the website http://jeter.dyndns.org/

is it active ? does it exist ?

Shane
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