Will sound ever work? - Alsa problems

LucaSpiller

I may have posted this before but I don't rememer and if i did it was a while ago. Also my 'b' key is a bit iffy so that is the source of my spelling mistakes.

Anyway, the problem: I want sound to work, sound doesn't work. I have tried everything I can think of, I have followed the Gentoo sound guide numerous times but I just cant get anything to work. Once I did manage to get it to work, but then when I started KDE it just stopped and hasn't worked since. It works fine in Mandrake and Windows so why not Gentoo?

When I follow the instructions it all works fine until I try and play something - even 'amixer' and 'alsamixer' do what they are supposed to, but for some reason /dev/dsp doesn't exist so nothing works - except playing CDs. :roll:

I don't really know what the problem could be so here are my specs:
M848a motherboard - Sis 748 based - uses intel8x0 sound driver
Kernel 2.6.9-gentoo-r9
Alsa 1.0.6

Any ideas would be fantastic because I have no idea.

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:: Luca :: Mac Fag :: Original Macbook, 2g RAM :: Closet Linux user (seasoned with salt and pepper) :: C2D E4400 @ 2ghz, 4g RAM (only 3.2g detected under 64bit...), Nvidia 9600GSO ::

Trevoke · Advocate Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 4099 Location: NY, NY

With kernel 2.6 you're not supposed to emerge the alsa-drivers.. Uninstall them and use the built-in.
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:

LucaSpiller,

/dev/dsp is a symbolic link to /dev/sound/dsp which is a part of the OSS sound system. Make up your mind if you want ALSA or OSS sound and build your kernel to reflect that.

If you choose ALSA, you can also have the OSS emulation layer, so you can have ALSA and its /dev/snd/<devices> and /dev/sound/<fake_OSS_Devices>. You may not build real OSS and ALSA at the same time.

Make ALSA as modules or the alsa entries in /etc/modules.conf cannot do their stuff.
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NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
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planet-admin

jschellhaass · Guru Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 341

Have you emerged alsa-oss?

If you have is snd_pcm_oss loaded? I beleive this is the module that creates /dev/dsp.

jeff

placeholder · Advocate Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500

There is also no need for alsa-oss either if you have a 2.6 series kernel. I highly recommended compiling all of the stuff you need for ALSA into the kernel and not as modules though, because it works wonders for me.

Cintra · Advocate Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 2111 Location: Norway

LucaSpiller · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon: Alsa is newer so I want that!

planet-admin: As far as I can tell it is correct in the kernel config, and it worked BEFORE I started KDE (it was installed) then it just gave up.

----

I am not sure if I did this correct but oh well.

First I unmerged alsa-driver alsa-utils and alsa-oss

I then compiled the following as modules:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject:

LucaSpiller,

Just loading the modules is not suffcient. You need to fix /etc/modules.d/alsa to describe your hardare, then run

placeholder · Advocate Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500

planet-admin · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject:

wrc1944 · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:07 pm Post subject:

Well, I've been struggling with all this for months too, and still haven't figured it out. And I've really, really tried hard, investing at least 1000 hours doing everything possible from every forum, google article, etc. I've religiously followed the Gentoo alsa guide, and every other piece of advice and instructions given. It just never works properly. I've tested hundreds of configurations and versions of the sound apps, on several distros, and nothing has ever been even close to satisfactory.

As an example, Trevoke's post, and he's a veteran, directly contradicts eradicator's ( a Gentoo developer) about the 2.6 kernel "modules" or "built-in" questions (emerging the alsa-driver). Then Pwnz3r, another veteran, says:

LucaSpiller · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject:

Nice wrc1944 - that is just how I feel at the moment. :roll:

Luckily my new TV card has an audio out thingy so I can plug my speakers into that.

planet-admin: That sounds quite logical to me so I will try it later - I am watching Father Ted at the moment though.

NeddySeagoon: Use "Dispatch-conf" instead, it is much better, and easier. At can't find much documentation on it but this will get you started.
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:: Luca :: Mac Fag :: Original Macbook, 2g RAM :: Closet Linux user (seasoned with salt and pepper) :: C2D E4400 @ 2ghz, 4g RAM (only 3.2g detected under 64bit...), Nvidia 9600GSO ::

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject:

LucaSpiller,

I have a bad habit of pidking out the files I know I have to take care with then hitting -5 for the rest. I need to give dispatch-conf a go though.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

wrc1944 · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:20 am Post subject:

Perhaps the ideal solution would be for NeddySeagoon & eradicator (they've helped me before on the forum), the alsa/rosegarden/qsynth/etc./etc. developers, plus a few other really knowledgeable professional musicians who are actually using linux apps successfully to get together, and create a definitive "Linux Professional sound tutorial." It wouldn't need to go into all the configs for everyone's specific hardware- most Gentoo people know enough to get that stuff correct.

Just an in-depth outline describing the correct procedural aspects of getting linux sound functioning on a professional level, IF, and that's a big IF, it's even possible. I've read all the other guides and tutorials claiming to explain it, but they simply don't do the job, apparently leaving out the understanding of many vital points, the lack of which any one can result in complete failure. It makes one feel that the writers of all these guides might not have really done it themselves. Put bluntly, there's just a mass of confusion, contradiction, and simply a lack of clarification on the entire subject.

I'm still not convinced it's possible, at least for what I want to do, which is a professsional digital recording studio setup. This has been possible in windows and Macs for some time now, without any major problems.

Otherwise, are we just going to have to admit that the Linux sound apps just aren't ready to do the job- working together in a functioning environment? I'll be damned if I can figure it all out.

In a previous life, I was a serious professional musician/guitarist/composer for 30+ years, and would like to resurrect my long-lost carreer with the new technology, and combine it with my recent obsession with Gentoo Linux and computers in general- it's the perfect medium for an old composer without his own private symphony orchestra at beck and call.

I did actually have rosegarden/qsynth/jack actually playing midi files using the Unison soundfont at one time, and could also load in the 30mb steinway grand piano font, but the new version of rosegarden fouled even that up, and I can't emerge the old one anymore. At one point, I even got museseq to function, but only as root, and later that configuration apparently self-destructed. The bottom line is, there's something to be said for a stable & functioning environment with your app(s) of choice- it shouldn't be a constant seemingly hopeless battle, before you can even get to the actual purpose of your "real" work.

I guess I'll try the Agnula project distro next (since Linux sound is supposedly their main trip), on it's own drive, and see if I can decipher their configurations/apps, and then apply that knowledge to my Gentoo boxes.

But really, as an older composer, I really need to get down to some serious work here, and stop spending all my time trying to configure computer applications which may or may not be proven reliable, and which at this point, seems fruitless. If Agnula actually works, and I can apply that setup to Gentoo, fine, but at this point it looks like it's back to winXP and Cakewalk. In my present situation (no matter how much I enjoy playing around with them), the computer is a tool, as a means towards an end.
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placeholder · Advocate Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500

If you just wanted a good tutorial for getting ALSA setup in Gentoo, then I could also put one of those up on my website. Putting sound items in as modules has screwed people up many times.

wrc1944 · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:14 am Post subject:

Pwnz3r,

I'd certainly welcome that, and all your expertise, and appreciate all other knowledge, but I've tried it all this stuff for months, and know how to set up alsa, etc., and am quite knowledgeable about Linux, etc.

IMHO, I just think the individual sound apps are the basic problem, and perhaps not the latest alsa itself. What we're talking about here is a professional Linux recording studio- not simple playback and recording in a home environment for normal users.

Compiling alsa and succeeding at this linux sound fiasco into my many 2.6 kernels has always failed, because after 6 months, the conclusion is that it just doesn't work- it's that simple, and I have much experience at this. I'm sorry to say, that's the bottom line fact of the matter, either because of kernel conflicts, or app problems.

And again, your veteran status advice conflicts with the Gentoo developer eradicator. Whom are us users to take as the expert defining the linux sound reality?
Obviously, I'm not the expert, and have no solution to all this; I'm just an end user doing the best I can, observing the reality of the status of Linux sound.
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Main box- AsRock x370 Gaming K4
Ryzen 7 3700x, 3.6GHz, 16GB GSkill Flare DDR4 3200mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD R7 350 2GB DDR5
OpenRC Gentoo ~amd64 plasma, glibc-2.36-r7, gcc-13.2.1_p20230304
kernel-6.9.1 USE=experimental python3_11

placeholder · Advocate Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 2500

So are you saying that you have failed to get ALSA working with 2.6 kernels many times? For the record, I have never had a problem with ALSA in a 2.6 series kernel.

Anyway, I smell unwarranted judgement based on my rank.... As for my knowledge of GNU/Linux, I cannot say that I muck with sound all the time since I use it for games, music and the normal things but I do know much about it, or at least enough that I do not descend into help forums for reasons other than to help people since I solve issues on my own via searching or just reading error messages which used to seem crazy to me. I also run my own Gentoo server which is sitting next to this box so I have a share of knowledge when it comes to this stuff. :wink:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:27 am Post subject:

wrc1944,

From your sig

wrc1944 · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:30 am Post subject:

Pwnz3r'
Sorry- I guess I should clarify more about what I'm wanting to do- I'm talking about a professional sequencer/midi/soft-synth setup, in the sense of being a functional opertation for a serious composer, for all types of music, and soundfonts/samples, in creating midi files, and then ultimately finished digital files of my own music.

I like to work in kde/qt, but even when I drop down to xfce4, or fluxbox, I still can't get rosegarden/jack/qsynth to function correctly.

NeddySeagoon,
Yeah, I was worried about Audigy 2 ZS too- and apparently if you are correct, that might be my main problem, and I've been pissing in the wind in a hopeless situation. But this card is almost 2 years old!- isn't the current Linux emu10k1 driver up to that? I know I've got all the kernel configs I've tried correct. As far as the ATI card goes, it's never given me any trouble, and the generic ATI Linux driver works far better than the proprietary ATI linux drivers ever did.

Thanks guys, for all the feedback- if anyone ever figures linux/alsa/midi/ sound out on the pro/sequencer level, please post, and clue me in as to how they did it.
_________________
Main box- AsRock x370 Gaming K4
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Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD R7 350 2GB DDR5
OpenRC Gentoo ~amd64 plasma, glibc-2.36-r7, gcc-13.2.1_p20230304
kernel-6.9.1 USE=experimental python3_11

onlinece · n00b Joined: 19 Dec 2004 Posts: 1

Hi,

one of the discussion members asked me to drop a line here, so here it is (you know who you are :).

First of all, when you plan serious audio work on linux, I recommend to subscribe to the linux audio users mailing list. You can subscribe it here:

www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/subscribelau.php3

If you need an basic overview about linux sound system usage, you can view an early release of my first linux audio tutorial video:

http://sysexxer.sf.net/files/LinuxAudioBasics.avi

It does not help configuring your audio setup, but gives an overview over using sound systems on linux.

If you want to use applications which reqire OSS, then you should *disable* OSS in the 2.6 kernels and enable *only* ALSA (except there is no ALSA driver for your hardware). Ensure that you enable the ALSA OSS emulation in your ALSA kernel config (Go to device drivers, sound, enable sound card support, enter Open sound system and disable it, then simply enter Advanced Linux Sound Architecture and enable Sequencer Support, OSS Mixer API, OSS PCM (to get a /dev/dsp), OSS Sequencer API (to get a /dev/midi), RTC Timer Support and below the drivers you want to use).

After building and installing your kernel, run alsaconf from the package alsa-utils to set up your soundcards (the scipt will, besides others, edit your /etc/modules.d/alsa). USB soundcards do not need to be configured (and also do not appear in alsaconf). Simply load the module snd-usb-audio and your USB device should work (if it is supported).

Please note: only one application can now use the device, maybe arts (enabling multiple kde applications to access the card simultaneously), or esound (the same as arts, but for Gnome).
So, if you try to start a non KDE application (like xmms) which wants to directly access the device, it will complain about non existing soundcards (because an other application - arts - already has grabbed the device). In this case, you can stop arts or install a plugin for xmms which makes it play to arts (See options - settings - output plugin in xmms). Unfortunately, not all applications have so many output plugins like xmms.
If an application has no optional output plugins, run »artsshell -q terminate« before using it to avoid arts blocking the device.

To address the alsa/midi/rosegarden/qsynth/jack/timidity/ardour issue, well, audio on linux is still not that easy than on Mac or Win. But I'd like to recommend everyone who is interested: Join the linux audio users list and don't give up!

Concerning the wish for a "Linux Professional sound tutorial.", I'd better like some unifying and improving the linux sound apps themselves. There's still a lot of work to be done. If I could code, I'd immediately start to do some things, mainly addressing usability issues. In many many cases, it would be enough if some sound apps would bring up a reasonable alert box when it cannot work properly, maybe because no device is accessible. Anyone here who can write some code? Grab one of the apps and send a patch to the maintainer. I can immediately write down a list of things which should be done on certain applications, if someone is interested.

Anyway, the future is ALSA and Jack, and if you want to do serious audio work, you should learn how to use them and how to connect your applications (like sequencers) to them.

To protect the writers of audio guides, it's simply impossible to write a tutorial which will work on every distro and for each case of usage.

About MuSE, it will use realtime caps, and therefore should be run in root mode by setting the SUID bit to its binary. I for myself have MuSE 0.7 instead of the 0.6.3 from the portage tree. I got it from CVS and compiled it with a prefix to install it simply to my home directory. 0.6.3 has some disadvantages, mainly the file format has changed from 0.6.3 to 0.7, and there's no converter.

wrc1944, you're right. If someone (like me), waits years until everything works, we have to ask for sure if this is the right way instead of simply using the computer; I also often wished back my old but worthy Atari and Cubase and simply use it.

On the other hand, we all like software which is *free*. Not for saving money, but for our freedom. When we all were developers, we could help together to make our software better and more intelligent. But currently it seems that there are too less developers to do all the work that would be nice to have.

Please dont't ask me anything in this board; I dislike web based boards but like mailing lists. I can be found in the gentoo users and the audio users mailing lists.

Best regards

ce

nickrout · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:58 am Post subject:

nickrout · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:14 am Post subject:

Another thing I would like commented on here is in relation to 2.6 kernels, in particular, do you use the code thats in the kernel, or do you use alsa-drivers?

I thought the position was thus, but if I am wrong or there is more to it I would love to know:

holywen · n00b Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 12

I have a Dell C610 laptop,and it has a intel i8x0 soundcard.
what ever I configed alsa in the kernel (2.6.7),the player just play the music but
there is no sound.(I already unmuted in the mixer).
I made it work in 2.4 kernel before.
At last I switched to OSS and it works fine now.

wrc1944 · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject:

I think it's eradicator who recommends NOT compiling alsa-driver into the kernel for 2.6, and perhaps he was the developer who recently added the line in the alsa guide about that method. Previously, it wasn't there.

I also believe the consensus now is that arts has to go, and I read somewhere that kde has committed to getting rid of it. In my own case, it's always given me problems. Probably my own doing, as I'm constantly trying every new kernel and patch.

I'll admit OSS and arts will generally work for playback and basic recording, but don't seem to be designed for midi sequencing. I've disabled arts in kde, and OSS in my kernels.

My Audigy 2 ZS card shows up when I run alsaconf (1.0.7), and it does the modules update successfully. All my lsmod, lspci and dmesg outputs seem to report back OK, as well as all my alsa config files. I can get jack and qsynth up normally (at least it seems that way). All needed apps are emerged, AFAIK.

Just ran across this newest interview with the Rosegarden developers- very interesting. It discusses some of the problems Linux users have been having, and Rosegarden's development.

http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/16/rosegarden.html

Thanks to all who are posting on this subject. I guess the quest continues.
_________________
Main box- AsRock x370 Gaming K4
Ryzen 7 3700x, 3.6GHz, 16GB GSkill Flare DDR4 3200mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD R7 350 2GB DDR5
OpenRC Gentoo ~amd64 plasma, glibc-2.36-r7, gcc-13.2.1_p20230304
kernel-6.9.1 USE=experimental python3_11