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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:18 pm    Post subject: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

Mandrake made me desperate, I want Gentoo back.... I'm sorry I have sinned, now I'll just wait for GCC 3.2.1 to be released, because I see no reason to recompile after it has been released..... and then Gentoo is back and hit me hard if I ever stray from the path again please.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take the more conservative route next time, and install/update only what you need. Maybe come up with an inexpensive system to try the bleeding edge stuff.

I don't update anything critical (unless it is security related).
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
I'll just wait for GCC 3.2.1 to be released, because I see no reason to recompile after it has been released.....

Isn't recompiling everything only nessacary when the ABI is changed? Which isn't happening in 3.2.1, AFAIK.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

duff wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
I'll just wait for GCC 3.2.1 to be released, because I see no reason to recompile after it has been released.....

Isn't recompiling everything only nessacary when the ABI is changed? Which isn't happening in 3.2.1, AFAIK.


Ah.. but Gcc3.2 is known to miscompile some code, and the fixes are in the prereleases for 3.2.1 - I figure, why tempt faith when the release is set for this weekend.
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rac
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

duff wrote:
Isn't recompiling everything only nessacary when the ABI is changed?

As Lovechild noted, hopefully those of us that have been using -O2 instead of -O3 because of bugs with -frename-registers for certain values of -march will not have to worry about this after 3.2.1 comes out, and we can try using -O3 again.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

rac wrote:
duff wrote:
Isn't recompiling everything only nessacary when the ABI is changed?

As Lovechild noted, hopefully those of us that have been using -O2 instead of -O3 because of bugs with -frename-registers for certain values of -march will not have to worry about this after 3.2.1 comes out, and we can try using -O3 again.


I arrogantly figure that I'll do an entire system with -march=athlon-xp -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer (-maccumulate-outgoing-args) ..and hope for a troublefree install.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Mandrake made me desperate, I want Gentoo back....


I am curious to know what did you dislike about Mandrake. I used Mandrake 8.0 in the past. Since beginning 2002, I used LFS and now since one month, Gentoo. My main reason of using LFS and Gentoo is that I want to have more control on my system and know exactly what is installed.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tournesol wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
Mandrake made me desperate, I want Gentoo back....


I am curious to know what did you dislike about Mandrake. I used Mandrake 8.0 in the past. Since beginning 2002, I used LFS and now since one month, Gentoo. My main reason of using LFS and Gentoo is that I want to have more control on my system and know exactly what is installed.


Believe it or not, I think MDK is extremely nice, but I managed to mess up the entire urpmi database thingy, and I didn't know what I did.... At least with Gentoo I know what I'm doing is dangerous.

And I just miss how things just seemed to install so easily on Gentoo, compared to an rpm based system.... which gets SO annoying without that database. So I just decided that I would be better off just reinstalling Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mandrake 9.0 is actually the weakest version in a long time. Real rushjob. I respect Mandrake for their pioneering work in bringing Linux to the Masses, but I don't really expect them to surprise me with a great release while they are still rpm-based and plagued by financial troubles.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_kuzmanic wrote:
Mandrake 9.0 is actually the weakest version in a long time. Real rushjob. I respect Mandrake for their pioneering work in bringing Linux to the Masses, but I don't really expect them to surprise me with a great release while they are still rpm-based and plagued by financial troubles.


The Mandrake 9 kernel is awesome for a stability vs. features point of view. Personally I have a lot of respect for MDK, I'm a member of the Mandrake Club and my server runs on a Mandrake 8.1 setup which has been rockstable for months.

Mandrake is fine, Gentoo is fun :)
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c_kuzmanic
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
c_kuzmanic wrote:
Mandrake 9.0 is actually the weakest version in a long time. Real rushjob. I respect Mandrake for their pioneering work in bringing Linux to the Masses, but I don't really expect them to surprise me with a great release while they are still rpm-based and plagued by financial troubles.


The Mandrake 9 kernel is awesome for a stability vs. features point of view. Personally I have a lot of respect for MDK, I'm a member of the Mandrake Club and my server runs on a Mandrake 8.1 setup which has been rockstable for months.

Mandrake is fine, Gentoo is fun :)


Lol, I too am a member of the Mandrake Club. MDK 8.1 is still my favorite Mandrake release, and yes I have several servers running it too - Absolutely stable, no probs ever. But Alas, don't expect Mandrake to be around for much longer, they have severe financial troubles... :cry:
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest I heard Mandrake was in the clear, I would expect them to do cutbacks but stay in business.

Mandrakes biggest fault is that they release the GPLed downloadable distros first and then weeks or months later they release a boxed set, by that time, no one will by the boxed set. I think they should do something more like SuSE does, release boxed sets only and then offer an FTP install. That way people will be more encouraged to buy the boxed sets, and thus MDK makes more money.
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c_kuzmanic
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Latest I heard Mandrake was in the clear, I would expect them to do cutbacks but stay in business.

Mandrakes biggest fault is that they release the GPLed downloadable distros first and then weeks or months later they release a boxed set, by that time, no one will by the boxed set. I think they should do something more like SuSE does, release boxed sets only and then offer an FTP install. That way people will be more encouraged to buy the boxed sets, and thus MDK makes more money.


Lovechild, I agree with you 100% . Mandrake needs to make sure that their boxed sets are sold BEFORE giving it away for free. Many people would complain that this is against the open source spirit, but what good is it if Mandrake is forced to shut down due to the fact that nobody buys their boxed sets?

There was a time when I really thought Mandrake had the best chances of achieving linux desktop-dominance but that was before the high-tech sector imploded and the recent decline in high-tech spending and development.

Looking at Mandrake's recent financial statements I really doubt they will survive in the present form. I'm sure they will live on somehow (consulting) but I think the Mandrake Distro had its Hey-Day and that time is now over.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's NOT against the Free Software spirit, all you really have to do to is to make the source available, nowhere in the GPL is the need for binaries let alone ISOs mentioned. So infact Mandrake could totally remove the ISOs, which would probably be the best option for them, FTP installs should be fine, and if you don't have broadband then paying a small amount of cash for the lastest distro would be fine, say 10$ + p&p.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: You were right, I was wrong.... OK? Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
rac wrote:
duff wrote:
Isn't recompiling everything only nessacary when the ABI is changed?

As Lovechild noted, hopefully those of us that have been using -O2 instead of -O3 because of bugs with -frename-registers for certain values of -march will not have to worry about this after 3.2.1 comes out, and we can try using -O3 again.


I arrogantly figure that I'll do an entire system with -march=athlon-xp -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer (-maccumulate-outgoing-args) ..and hope for a troublefree install.


Oddly enough, I've managed to be running Gentoo compiled with -march=athlon -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe (pretty close to your settings) with no problems at all with GCC 3.2...is it a problem with the -xp series alone? I haven't kept up too much on the GCC 3.2 issues, I haven't seen a reason to since everything worked for me...
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-O3 caused my system to become unstable to the point where Windows 98 was more usable....
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall strike down upon thee with great vengance and furious anger, those who... Aw, shucks. Just don't do it again. :)

I had loads of trouble with MDK 8.x. The RPM database would get hosed on a regular basis. A friend at work is using a Mandrake system - his RPM is so hosed that any thing he runs RPM related (even the thingy to rebuild the database) locks solid and becomes an unkillable zombie process.

For the record, I'm running quite stable on my home system with -march=athlon-tbird -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer and gcc 3.2 but YMMV. Some packages have been known to break with -fomit-frame-pointer, but the ebuilds almost invariably filter that out now when it's a problem. Actually, I've had problems with Mozilla, but that did not change with optimizations. For me Mozilla has _never_ been stable (or reasonably fast) in any distribution, on any computer, source or binary. I just end up using Opera or Konquerer.
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KiTaSuMbA
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my flags are:
CFLAGS="-march=athlon-xp -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -fforce-addr -falign-functions=4"
That's pretty much pushing things but apart from the odd package breaking down in flames during compilation (and in that case going back to "conservative" optimizations) I don't have any real stability issues. I might even not restart my desktop or any apps for a week and my system remains healthy... Of course, YMMV, depending and what apps you run and how etc etc...
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you're at it, why not add -maccumulate-outgoing-args to that awesomely dangerous CFLAG string... :)

but glad to hear that you're in the green... I hope GCC 3.2.1 will solve most of my problems, and then I think I'll do a system with your string... just for kicks :)
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phong
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to break things, add -malign-double. Sounds harmless enough (aligning doubles on 4 byte boundries to make the CPU happier with cache alignment and such), and is fine to use, as long as you don't want to use gcc, python or perl. :twisted:
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hrm, I dunno. I use

CFLAGS="-march=athlon-mp -O3 -pipe -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -frerun-cse-after-loop -frerun-loop-opt -falign-functions=4"

And I have not had so much as a hiccup, ever. Once I (quickly) got over the inital learning curve and some bumps there, and got it up and running, this by far has been the most trouble free distribution I have ever used. dpgk was usually pretty good, but RPM's were a nightmare, imho. Granted I stopped using RPM distros several years ago and never looked back, so maybe things are better.

As a side note, I never do "emerge world". I'm surprised to hear anyone does. Occasionally I'll do "emerge -p world" just to see what's new, but I always emerge the things I want explicitly.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
i use this with my 1.4 baby (hadnt any problem since yet).......
Quote:


CFLAGS="-march=athlon-xp -mcpu=athlon-xp -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -O3 -pipe -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer -frerun-cse-after-loop -frerun-loop-opt -falign-functions=4 -maccumulate-outgoing-args -mfpmath=sse"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"


...never had such a nice machine since DOS 6.22 (yes , i like DOS)
i have everything installed i want :
KDE 3.1.x
Gnome 2
Windowmaker
Fluxbox
k3b
gaim2 (or whatever its called)
Flamethrower (ok, its really an alpha)
some masked stuff
..blah
alot more
..blah
AND vdr/kvdr with alot of plugins :D :D (im totally happy about this , now
i can port it to my multimedia center)

and the good thing is , its rock stable (since 1 1/2 weeks ..lol)
Before i had such nice things like mozilla ,galeon2, OO.....etc......
but now i have smaller ,better (imho) progs for it.....

Greetz
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lx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djoi wrote:
CFLAGS="-march=athlon-xp -mcpu=athlon-xp -m3dnow -mmmx -msse -O3 -pipe -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer -frerun-cse-after-loop -frerun-loop-opt -falign-functions=4 -maccumulate-outgoing-args -mfpmath=sse"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"


Don't want to diss you, but the amount of options doesn't matter, lots of your options are coverd by -march=athlon-xp all mmx / 3dnow and sse for instance. so I think -march=athlon-xp -O3 -fforce-addr (O2 uses fforce-mem) -fomit... -frerun x2 (-falign-funcions=4, i also think march takes care of this) -maccumulate-outgoing-args. Maybe more of the options are either coverd by march or O3. But dublicate switches can't hurt ;-) .

I'm very conservative using just -march=athlon-xp and O2, this cause I'm running unstable and kernel 2.5.47 and I don't want error related too some obscure switch, I used more extreem switches before aswell as O3 but it didn't seem too improve system performance, compile time however seemed to be longer.

It remains a difficult topic and everybody has it's own taste. I myself am convinced that march=.... and O2 (maybe O3) is enough, extra switches will not lead to significant performance improvents and can lead to unknown errors / system unstability. But there's a change that in a while I am compiling everything with the most exotic flags, just convince me of the benefits,

Cya lX.
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