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If I wasn't berated by a Gnome developer what would I change?
Default "spatial mode" for Nautilus to "not spatial"
13%
 13%  [ 22 ]
Have normalized key order with cancel key in the right place
4%
 4%  [ 7 ]
Change or re-design the gConf (regedit wanabe)
7%
 7%  [ 13 ]
All of the above
31%
 31%  [ 52 ]
Some of the above
6%
 6%  [ 11 ]
None of the above
35%
 35%  [ 58 ]
Total Votes : 163

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huffd
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: GoneME? Could win a lot of distro converts for gentoo. Reply with quote

After months of seeing news reports about how to make Linux desktops more appealing, someone came up with an idea that is worth considering. Since the juggernaut at Gnome will not avail itself to users wishes, someone has decided to fork certain elements of Gnome.

My gosh to really give the users what they want no matter how "stupid" (Gnome developer quoted here) it is. What a novel concept?

These could be done as simple patches to existing emerge scripts and use as an option called through the USE parameter.

I think this would be an excellent way to get more Linux savy users to try Gentoo.

Temporary project site, has more about background, founder and other projects:
http://www.akcaagac.com/index_goneme.html
GoneME Project Site:
http://www.goneme.org/
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who likes Gnome as it is?
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Roguelazer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with thebell. Forking gnome is stupid. It's much better as it is than it would be with any of his proposed "fixes".
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nightm4re
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not a fan of the spatial nautlus at all, by the time i know it i have about 13 windows open! why can't you just do it in a single window!

you know what i voted for :D
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightmare wrote:
why can't you just do it in a single window!
You can. That's the point.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Change or re-design the gConf (regedit wanabe)


*sigh* Many people complain about the windows-like look of gconf-editor, but none of them have yet come up with a better way to display that many options in a small space...


thebell wrote:
Am I the only one who likes Gnome as it is?

no
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah oGALAXYo, troll extraordinate.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd change the button order to match non gnome programs.
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biffbangpow
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it odd that some people tend to take personal offense to the direction Gnome is taking.

The Gnome Project is a constantly evolving, perpetual work-in-progress and parts have been torn down so that they may be built back up again. Spatial Nautilus is not perfect (I find myself ending up in "browser mode" often) but it's the first step in a movement away from the traditional hierarchical way of organising a file system, towards a system of finding information via metadata, assisted by projects such as GnomeStorage, Beagle, and Dashboard.

And no, these changes are not being forced down anyone's throat. The idea is to let these projects flourish so that users will want to adopt them.

Until then, and even after such projects mature, there will always be programs like "gTweakUI" that allow users to keep using Gnome the good ol' fashioned way, and other desktops such as KDE, a plethora of window managers, and operating systems - having a vocal minority of users opposed to Gnome straying from the tried and true is no reason to stifle progress.

It's really a non-issue
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aethyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebell wrote:
Am I the only one who likes Gnome as it is?


Nope, GNOME rocks and it keeps getting better :)

For all those people complaining about spatial Nautilus right now you can change it with gconf or gtweakui. In 2.8 it will be an option in preferences.

As far as button order, I prefer the GNOME button order over alternatives.

The Control Center will be revamped in future GNOME versions (people are unhappy with overlapping functionality between options).

The essential GNOME: Gentoo has gnome-light which I use.

Python? You already need it for portage.

Most of the points on the webpage just seem to be rambling arguments...

Here's to the future of The Anti-Crackful Desktop.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to use GNOME and I thought it was fine. You can change a lot with the GConf editor if you don't like how something works. On the other hand, why does Nautilus's spacial mode involve opening everything in a new window? Have they changed that since I last used it? If not, that's the only thing I see a need to change.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst the spatial argument is as valid as it is tired, the GConf critics are largely ignorant and almost always wrong in their assertions. Pretty much anybody who develops apps for Gnome will sing the praises of GConf because it really makes their job easier and makes for a nicer user environment by cutting the crap out of many apps. It is nothing like regedit other than a few similarities in appearance. But people like to judge books by their covers.

Back to the main subject, GoneME will probably never live, and if it does it will flounder and die. It's goals are mostly frivelous yet arduous (GConf removal being a case in point - is the GoneME team going to maintain an alternative backend for all apps that use GConf and if they produce a drop-in replacement they will be achieving nothing) and the lead (and only?) developer is frankly a bullshitter (oGalaxyo as he is known on osnews.com where he has, to my knowledge, been banned).

As with any open source project, I wish it luck. But I see zero future for this one. Despite the controversial spatial Nautilus decision, the Gnome team has done a brilliant job thus far and will continue to do so. I do not see that changing, and do not see how GoneME will manage to produce something better given their stated goals.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pwnz3r wrote:
why does Nautilus's spacial mode involve opening everything in a new window? Have they changed that since I last used it? If not, that's the only thing I see a need to change.


Because opening everything in a new window is part of being spatial.

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-2.html

If you don't want it to work that way, you can always use the navigational model.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan of GNOME and the direction it's taking.

I'm more into GNOME for the direction it's heading than anything else.

I was happy for eons with Enlightenment because of Eyecandy, but GNOME's direction made me jump ship. I'ts not even there yet, but with 2.6 I was happy enough. I like where it's at and where it's developers say it's going.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindstab wrote:
I'm a fan of GNOME and the direction it's taking.

I'm more into GNOME for the direction it's heading than anything else..


Agreed.. and gtk2 themes just look dead sexy at times.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any particular reason the button order is the way it is in gnome? Is there some study that shows that their way is somehow better or more intuitive?

To say that my only real gripe with gnome is something as trivial as the button ordering is actually kind of a complement to gnome. But it does throw me off a lot...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beesea wrote:
Is there any particular reason the button order is the way it is in gnome? Is there some study that shows that their way is somehow better or more intuitive?


Here's the GUP proposal:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/proposals/dialog.html

This is the original bug that was FIXED by changing the button ordering:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56331

The very earliest I can find it referenced on the mailing list:
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-2-0-list/2001-July/msg00095.html

This thread might give some insight into the decision (this is when the change was made):
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2001-November/msg00003.html

if it makes you feel better, even Alan Cox argued against it ;)

[edit] FWIW I like the current button ordering.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love spatial nautilus. Once you use it for a while it really grows on you. It really isnt' so hard to hold shift when opening a folder (or middle clicking to open) to open the new folder and close the other.

I also don't see any problems with the button order. I think it's just silly to bring that up as a negative.

As for gconf, compairing it to regedit is pretty ignorant. It's extremely diffrent.

I think the direction gnome is heading is great, i just wish it'd get there faster! lol
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see the focus behavior in Metacity fixed. I think there should be an option for raising windows if you click anywhere, like in Windows, or only if you click the border or titlebar, as I prefer. Now I have to change a line of code before I build to get my desired behavior.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
I'd like to see the focus behavior in Metacity fixed. I think there should be an option for raising windows if you click anywhere, like in Windows, or only if you click the border or titlebar, as I prefer. Now I have to change a line of code before I build to get my desired behavior.


Umm...I know this used to be an option in gconf...is it still?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charlieg wrote:
Whilst the spatial argument is as valid as it is tired, the GConf critics are largely ignorant and almost always wrong in their assertions. Pretty much anybody who develops apps for Gnome will sing the praises of GConf because it really makes their job easier and makes for a nicer user environment by cutting the crap out of many apps. It is nothing like regedit other than a few similarities in appearance. But people like to judge books by their covers.

No, they like to judge by usability. I don't use gnome regularly, but I try out every new release and there are a lot of things about gnome I like but one thing that annoys me every time I use gnome is the gconf-editor as it simply takes a lot of time to sift through it to find what I am looking for. Now that doesn't mean the underlying idea of gconf isn't good, it just means there should be a better interface to access the advanced gnome options.

charlieg wrote:

Back to the main subject, GoneME will probably never live, and if it does it will flounder and die. It's goals are mostly frivelous yet arduous (GConf removal being a case in point - is the GoneME team going to maintain an alternative backend for all apps that use GConf and if they produce a drop-in replacement they will be achieving nothing) and the lead (and only?) developer is frankly a bullshitter (oGalaxyo as he is known on osnews.com where he has, to my knowledge, been banned).

You should actually read the site:
Quote:

GConf as it is now reminds me to much about Windows Registry and you hear people complaining about this on all sorts of places. Sure GConf has quite some advantages that I not like to ignore but I don't like the approach of having a dozen directories in ~/.gconf with silly XML names like %gconf.xml. There is no need to change everything but a better approach might be required. I have something less intrusive in mind such as ~/.gconf/evolution.xml or ~/.gconf/galeon.xml or ~/.gconf/nautilus.xml. So when you open the directory with your filemanager then you get a nice list of program configuration you have on your system. Of course it's open for conversation whether you should want to add subdirs for 'apps', 'system' in ~/.gconf I think this makes indeed sense to have.


About 0galaxy0 being a troll, he sure was annoying on osnews and slashdot but I think you should give him credit for not only trolling these sites but finally doing something about the things he complains.

Finally, I really would like to see a patch to reverse the button order of gnome apps as this would eliminate some inconsistency when using these apps with other environments.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralph wrote:
Finally, I really would like to see a patch to reverse the button order of gnome apps as this would eliminate some inconsistency when using these apps with other environments.


Indeed... perhaps they should detect what environment they are running in and dynamically change the button order?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aethyr wrote:
Pwnz3r wrote:
why does Nautilus's spacial mode involve opening everything in a new window? Have they changed that since I last used it? If not, that's the only thing I see a need to change.


Because opening everything in a new window is part of being spatial.

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-2.html

If you don't want it to work that way, you can always use the navigational model.


Or I can just stick with ROX. It has the best of both worlds and is lite. :wink:

What GNOME buttons are you guys saying are "backwards" anyway? Maybe I'm a little out of it, but I don't remember any buttons being "backwards" in GNOME.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pwnz3r wrote:
What GNOME buttons are you guys saying are "backwards" anyway? Maybe I'm a little out of it, but I don't remember any buttons being "backwards" in GNOME.

Here. I suppose people want the 'Yes' button on the left. Personally, I like it this way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm liking some of the current features of GNOME, but if Nautilus ever hides directories without asking me, or only lets me dig three layers deep, or the GNOME project decides to ditch their own terminal emulator, or any other thing done in the name of 'usability' that just works to dumb down the system.

Plus, and this has nothing to do with GNOME and more to do with GNOME zealots: isn't it annoying when GNOME zealots rip apart KDE, Windows, MacOS, or apps like Firefox because they don't follow the GNOME HIG? Idiots...
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