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never said it had to be done in javascript. personally, javascript is a waste to use in the modern times of xml, bml, etc

i was simply stating it is possible to do it that way. if there was a menu structure created in that manner, i would also highly suggest javascript not even be considered a last resort.

I am fairly good at php. If ya'll need any help in that area, I will be glad to help out. This is one of the few ways I can help gentoo. Just let me know if you do!

jim

Hello. Just signed up today to ask a question about the contest and I've started working on a submission.

I understand that copyright of the design will be transfered to the Gentoo Foundation should I win. Will I be given rights to include this work in my portfolio, etc?

Thanks!

klieber wrote: The purpose of this contest is to identify someone with the necessary skills to handle the graphic design portion of the site. They will then be expected to work with a larger team to start the actual overhaul.

sorry for the late reaction... i just signed up

what if a professional webdesign company wins the contest? do you expect them to join the gentoo developer team???

Shadows wrote:Where we come to another important point of the discussion. Javascript should never ever be used if the following statements are not applicable:

- Enabling Javascript enhances a certain functionality on the site, but is not a requirement
- Disabling Javascript does not leave any part of the site in a state of not beeing usable anymore

This is an excellent point that everyone should take note of. Using javascript is fine. Requiring javascript isn't.

Shadows wrote:A bad example for using Javascript is an expandable menu structure.

Not necessarily. You can have an expandable javascript-based menu structure that fails gracefully. The Kompany is an example of a web site that does this. You can still navigate the site just fine with javascript disabled.

--kurt

MrJL wrote:Will I be given rights to include this work in my portfolio, etc?

I hadn't considered this, but I don't see why not. We just want to make sure our web site is unique. We don't want it ending up as the default theme for the next PostNuke clone.

So, to answer your question, yes, you'd have the right to use the work to display in your portfolio.

--kurt

zubauza wrote:what if a professional webdesign company wins the contest? do you expect them to join the gentoo developer team???

I never said we expected anyone to join the gentoo developer team. I simply said we expected them to work as part of a larger team to complete the site overhaul. Once the overhaul is complete, the next steps would be up to them

Certainly if the winning submitter wants to join the team, they'd likely be welcome. They are under no obligation to do so, however.

--kurt

klieber wrote:Not necessarily. You can have an expandable javascript-based menu structure that fails gracefully. The Kompany is an example of a web site that does this. You can still navigate the site just fine with javascript disabled.

Well, that's right. But, like I mentioned before, they'll have to maintain the menu structure twice. The drawback for the maintainer of the site is, that he has to enter information twice, meaning two times a chance to make a mistake or forget something when he updates the site / menu. And, the "alternative" menu structure (below the Javascript Menubar) is visible even with Javascript enabled. Simply put, I don't like this and I think it's not an elegant solution, but that's just my opinion.

I'm not sure, if there's another, more elegant way to solve this (XML / CSS maybe?). If not, well, maybe enhancing menus with Javascript is not really that bad at all :)

Greetz

Shad

klieber wrote:So, to answer your question, yes, you'd have the right to use the work to display in your portfolio.

Alrighty. Just checking, 'cause usually I include copyright and inclusion in portfolio in the same clause in my contracts.

nitroburn wrote:I am fairly good at php. If ya'll need any help in that area, I will be glad to help out. This is one of the few ways I can help gentoo. Just let me know if you do!

jim

I'm also a php dev, but the Gentoo site uses alot of python as a backend (heck, almost all Gentoo-released products/tools use python)

As far as I know, the current main Gentoo site uses static xml pages processed by xslt to render it into viewable format? No php?

I like the design of http://gentoo-portage.com =) It could be modified and be really nice and usable for the gentoo.org main site.

Refering to JavaScript drop-down menus:

Shadows wrote:I'm not sure, if there's another, more elegant way to solve this (XML / CSS maybe?).

In XML, a single URI can point to multiple resources. These are called extended links and are defined in the XLink standard. How the web browser presents this to the user is determined by a combination of the DTD and the CSS.

@nadamsieee:

Thx for the pointer! I'll have a look at it as soon as I can catch some free time :)

Greetz

Shad

klieber wrote:

dgt84 wrote: Can we use Public Domain images in our works?

As long as they truly are public domain, sure. The image that represents Larry the Cow isn't public domain, but it is GPL'd, iirc.

Is the usage of images under the Creative Commons Attributions license admissable as well?

Thanks, mavoke

I am interested in contributing in some small way towards to contest. If you need any 3D rendered graphics, I will be happy to make some in Blender (www.blender3d.org) for anyone who requires them.

PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

mjg wrote:So, please, forget all that Javascript-things - in about 95% of the whole web it does not improve neither usability nor functionality. More likely, it just sucks.

Greetz

Shad

Are there common browsers that don't enable JavaScript by default?
I think a web site should be 100% functional without JavaScript, however, I think JavaScript is just excellent and brings very functional features if used intelligently.
Charles.

Do you guys think we should choose the funky gentoo logo, or the new techno logo?
I like a lot the funky red logo on the homepage, and I don't like the new techno logo used on the online store.

However, I think neither show a professional image. We should choose a different more formal font.
Charles.

Layout 7

Alright, here's my first layout ready for public critique. I hinted at the navigation system before. It's much like the Fedora navigation where there are categories, but they are always open. This way you can find any link from any page. The standard for navigation I have in mind starts with the left column, it contains the general navigation for the site and is always the same. Next you have the header which will be the navigation for the section of the site you are in. For the site home page all the header does is give the Gentoo introduction. In areas like the forums and the package database it will contain the navigation for those sections. Furthermore, the right column can display long navigation lists such as the new ebuild lists found in the package database. For the home page the right column will contain advertisements as usual. That is more of less how I envision the site's navigation working. In the future I plan to show some examples of how the header can be used as a navigational space.

I apologize for the low quality of the image. This thread has already gotten over 1500 views. I'd like to play it safe until I know how my server and pipe is going to react to the traffic. You guys don't want to wait for a 200k image anyway. As a result the image is blurry, especially the green "Gentoo Linux" under the logo.

It's a bit early for me to comment on the graphical elements of the design. Don't be mistaken into thinking I'm not interested in feedback there. Just want to leave the graphic design at face value for now, but I'm interested in what everyone thinks.

Layout 7

zeasier wrote:Alright, here's my first layout ready for public critique.

Two things I really like:
- link organization
- submenus stand out from other submenus

One thing that makes the current Gentoo site such a bear to navigate is that the submenus run together (no visual barriers other than black text). The nav side bar is also very poorly organized on the current site, IMHO. So good job on those two points, zeasier.

Suggestions
You might break out "Mailing Lists", "Forums", "IRC Channels", etc. into a separate submenu called Community or Communicate. Then you might rename Support to Resources since the remaining items will all be resources that don't involve human interaction. Get Gentoo would also make a nice submenu of its own. I am particularly fond of having all of the submenu titles be actions that the user would take: Get Gentoo, Communicate, Learn More (replaces Support/Resources), Participate, etc. Any good technical writer knows that verbs are more interesting than nouns or adjectives.

Question: How many of you guys will stick with open-source development tools for this contest?...

zeasier wrote:Layout 7

Alright, here's my first layout ready for public critique.

It's good... but...

How do you plan on doing the drop shadows for each layer? Doing them in tables makes for cludgy HTML. Doing them in layers is damned near impossible. Doing them as fixed size (with/height) drop shadows is god awful design.

This highlights a major problem with the image-only entry is that people will add touches like this to their layouts which are incredibly difficult (or impossible) to actually implement, but make their entry look nicer.

Given what this contest is--a graphical redesign for gentoo.org--I'm surprised that the full 3d models/scenes for the gentoo logo (in red) as well as the g (purple) are not available for public download. At the very least some MUCH larger renders would be nice (including at least one of each with an easy-to-remove background).

The name of the font used for 'gentoo linux' would also be nice. (someone requested this already)

Certainly these items are inescapably tied to the Gentoo branding, so certainly they should be used on any Gentoo site - but with just the same old small renders?

If there is some press-kit full of nice images that I don't know about, please clue me in (and I'd recommend a link on the contest guidelines page).
If otherwise, I remain disappointed with very little to work with.

reisio wrote:I'm surprised that the full 3d models/scenes for the g (purple) are not available for public download

SVG: http://programmer-art.org/?page=gentoo

calande wrote:

mjg wrote:So, please, forget all that Javascript-things - in about 95% of the whole web it does not improve neither usability nor functionality. More likely, it just sucks.

Are there common browsers that don't enable JavaScript by default?

yeah, it's called console browsers
lynx / links ... they do have limited javascript support, but *very* limited for the things you're talking about

if a site cant easily be browsed from the console, i get pissed
no i'm not one of those guys who are die hard console, i just use it from time to time and it's a huge PITA to try to navigate pos sites that are a mess when not graphically rendered