Gentoo Forums

pjp wrote:

Phenax wrote:If I understand this correctly

No, you don't understand correctly. Go back and read my posts. If you are unclear about something specific, I'll try to clarify.

What is differentiates Sabayon from giving my friend a custom-built Gentoo installer, with some of my prebuilt packages & configs?

All I see is this:

pjp wrote:

occ wrote:I wouldn't call it 'wasted.

You should catch up on the rest of the thread... the whole point was that Sabayon is supposedly just an overlay for Gentoo. But thanks, as you just proved that it is not (and thus, all Sabayon support questions should be in OTW if they are going to be on the Gentoo Forums).

Which is just because the Sabayon install disk has their network drivers, and Gentoo's doesn't (Or isn't active).

You can't ask questions about support for that custom-built live-CD in the support forums either... I'd look to see what's in the sabayon overlay, but the website doesn't load for me. If there are toolchain/base system packages that differ from gentoo, you probably wouldn't get (official) support if you had trouble with patched such either (at least it'd be closed INVALID in bugzilla).

I used Kororaa to setup my last box, which worked like a charm, and I could do - straight away after a 15 minute install... no overlays (apart from xgl-coffee, if that counts!) but a load of USE flags in make.conf...

I would also recommend Jackass! if you want to get an up-to-date stage3 to work from.

Anyway, does this mean that if I don't follow the 'handbook' to the letter I am not using Gentoo?

all the same, I much prefer a stage 1 install

EDIT (for clarity and compensation for red-wine induced sentence mangling)...

I just only say "gentoo howtos and tutorials on doc.gentoo.org and www.gentoo-wiki.org apply perfectly to Sabayon Linux". Because it is.
Sabayon Linux Project Managers never asked for an official support. We don't need that, we support our users in complete autonomy.

You tell um lxnay!!

We have never been encouraged to lie on ANY support forums concerning what distro we use. (I use Sabayon).

We are not leeching off of your precious forums, we have our own damn forums that work just fine. Just like you would be a fool to ONLY ask questions about your Ubuntu install on the Ubuntu forum and never go to the Debian forum, you would be a FOOL to not avail yourself of the Gentoo forums/wikis if you use a flavor of Gentoo. Nobody is asking in the gentoo forums how to get the fancy sabayon suse-style kicker, why because it obviously has nothing to do with Gentoo proper. However, if I were having an issue with a certain application (take gimp for example) if I posted about it here would I not be entitled to support? I run a gentoo system. I got gimp from the regular portage tree, not an overlay and if it borks for some various reason not related to the overlay, why wouldn't this forum be a source of information/support? General questions concerning the Gentoo system can be addressed here as well as in the Sabayon forums.

So if we are not allowed to view your forums/wikis don't you dare look at our forums our download the acceleration helpers from our overlays! And don't you dare post about getting Beryl to work.

From what I can tell, there are a lot of ruffled feathers here because lxnay has gone off on his own and made something very popular in very short order, that installs on 98% of all platforms the first time.

kondor wrote:I see. That is very interesting and clear. Thank you! I'd like to learn from Sabayon how the system configures many things like auto-mounting a usb key or plugging and unplugging a network cable and recognizing it automatically.

Systems that do these things make me tear my hair out. Try diagnosing something that won't stop $!^#ing with the hardware for a split second because of the friggin' automount...

chickpea23 wrote:
Nobody is asking in the gentoo forums how to get the fancy sabayon suse-style kicker

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-523567.html

Corona688 wrote: Try diagnosing something that won't stop $!^#ing with the hardware for a split second because of the friggin' automount...

Well, I think the GUI is nice to have!!! I think the eye candy from Sabayon is very nice and well done and I'm curious to know how they've done it.

I installed Sabayon last weekend and noticed that the make.conf had the "ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86" turned on. I commented that out and also the link to Sabayon's overlay, but then when I wanted to update my system using "emerge -uD world" I had many problems.

Probably it is not so simple to get from Sabayon to Gentoo. (Would it be like going from Ubunto to Debian?)

It'd be great if some of the work on sabayon got rolled back into gentoo, for instance a better live disk and installer. That doesn't change the main objective of sabayon as a version of gentoo with all the graphical effects, and would be a real contribution back to the mother distro.

steveL wrote:It'd be great if some of the work on sabayon got rolled back into gentoo, for instance a better live disk and installer. That doesn't change the main objective of sabayon as a version of gentoo with all the graphical effects, and would be a real contribution back to the mother distro.

I disagree. Each installer does what it needs to do. The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned; it won't be the one you've used for the past two releases. Oh, and here's part of the /topic for #gentoo-installer, from back in November:

|| we cannot offer support for RR4, see their forum instead

Why? Because they've had problems with so many non-Gentoo users coming and asking for help with something that is not Gentoo.

nightmorph wrote:I disagree. Each installer does what it needs to do. The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned; it won't be the one you've used for the past two releases

When you say, "you've used for the past two releases", I assume you are talking to the three people whose partitions weren't destroyed by it....

yabbadabbadont wrote:

nightmorph wrote:I disagree. Each installer does what it needs to do. The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned; it won't be the one you've used for the past two releases

When you say, "you've used for the past two releases", I assume you are talking to the three people whose partitions weren't destroyed by it....

Heh. Possibly. I don't use it myself, but that's because I prefer the command-line approach, especially as that's the only way to do RAID installs.

nightmorph wrote:I disagree. Each installer does what it needs to do. The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned; it won't be the one you've used for the past two releases.

Maybe not, but the sabayon live disk and installer clearly work to install a gentoo system, albeit one with custom package.mask/unmask and an overlay (on top of their own stage.) Not a great difference.

Oh, and here's part of the /topic for #gentoo-installer, from back in November:

|| we cannot offer support for RR4, see their forum instead

Why? Because they've had problems with so many non-Gentoo users coming and asking for help with something that is not Gentoo.

What does that have to do with feeding software back into gentoo?

steveL wrote:

nightmorph wrote:I disagree. Each installer does what it needs to do. The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned; it won't be the one you've used for the past two releases.

Maybe not, but the sabayon live disk and installer clearly work to install a gentoo system, albeit one with custom package.mask/unmask and an overlay (on top of their own stage.) Not a great difference.

I think there is a great difference between the Gentoo-intstaller and the Sabayon-installer.
The Gentoo-installer tries to consider the philosophie of Gentoo.That means there is all about choice.He wants you to be able choosing all settings you need i.e. CFLAGS,KEYWORDS,MAKEOPTS,VARIABLES etc.He is imho a GUI for the old-fashioned method expecting you know what you want.

The Sabayon-installer copies more or less the preconfigured Gentoo containing on the livecd to harddisk.No chance to change any settings besides the location,filesystem etc.

On the other hand:I lost the faith that the Gentoo-installer someday will work trustworthy.As long as he doesn't he has nothing to be left at the install-cd.

The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned

Do you know when it will be available

kondor wrote:

The installer for 2007.0 is being completely redesigned

Do you know when it will be available

When it's ready.

nightmorph wrote:And yet, reply you did....my, just look at that. Sabayon doesn't merit being supported, because it isn't Gentoo, plain and simple.

I don't use Sabayon, but I modify ebuilds and use various overlays. I also compile and setup a nice looking desktop. According to your standards I no longer run Gentoo? I'm assuming anyone that emerged layman shouldn't be supported either? I hope no one modifies their make.conf to stray from the march=athlon-xp example in the handbook.

john.doe wrote:I think there is a great difference between the Gentoo-intstaller and the Sabayon-installer.
The Gentoo-installer tries to consider the philosophie of Gentoo.That means there is all about choice.He wants you to be able choosing all settings you need i.e. CFLAGS,KEYWORDS,MAKEOPTS,VARIABLES etc.He is imho a GUI for the old-fashioned method expecting you know what you want.

The Sabayon-installer copies more or less the preconfigured Gentoo containing on the livecd to harddisk.No chance to change any settings besides the location,filesystem etc.

On the other hand:I lost the faith that the Gentoo-installer someday will work trustworthy.As long as he doesn't he has nothing to be left at the install-cd.

Well I think having the preconfigured thing come in as a base is cool. It should be easy enough to automate setting up a stage 3 for example in a similar fashion to mandrake's installer.

vipernicus wrote:

nightmorph wrote:And yet, reply you did....my, just look at that. Sabayon doesn't merit being supported, because it isn't Gentoo, plain and simple.

I don't use Sabayon, but I modify ebuilds and use various overlays. I also compile and setup a nice looking desktop. According to your standards I no longer run Gentoo? I'm assuming anyone that emerged layman shouldn't be supported either? I hope no one modifies their make.conf to stray from the march=athlon-xp example in the handbook.

You can not expect support from gentoo for packages you modified.
Likewise, you cannot expect support form gentoo if you have modified your toolchain.
Sabayon does both.

2006-03-16
Sabayon 3.3 released. Today I got it from a mirror and burned it on a DVD, the next minute, rebooting the PC and booting with the fresh DVD. 3.1 GB of software. A lot of options at boot time. I chose the default entry.
Then it started booting, and in the process it detected the sound card (Gentoo 2006.1 failed in that), then guess what? It detected my nvidia video card and loaded the correct drivers for it ( version 9755, the most recent in portage ).
After that, it started Xorg, with my beloved desktop manager, KDE, improved with the kickoff applet for kicker from Suse. A, I forgot to say that first it asked me about the hardware acceleration for the X server. I chose AIGL, and Beryl started, making my windows tremble like jelly .
As a first impression, it's a live dvd much more usable than Gentoo live cd (which uses Gnome, that at least on my last install was crashing repeatedly). It gives more confidence to a Gentoo beginner, by the fact that it's preconfigured and working well. And it's pretty fast I'd say.

darken wrote:2006-03-16
Sabayon 3.3 released. Today I got it from a mirror and burned it on a DVD, the next minute, rebooting the PC and booting with the fresh DVD. 3.1 GB of software. A lot of options at boot time. I chose the default entry.
Then it started booting, and in the process it detected the sound card (Gentoo 2006.1 failed in that), then guess what? It detected my nvidia video card and loaded the correct drivers for it ( version 9755, the most recent in portage ).
After that, it started Xorg, with my beloved desktop manager, KDE, improved with the kickoff applet for kicker from Suse. A, I forgot to say that first it asked me about the hardware acceleration for the X server. I chose AIGL, and Beryl started, making my windows tremble like jelly .
As a first impression, it's a live dvd much more usable than Gentoo live cd (which uses Gnome, that at least on my last install was crashing repeatedly). It gives more confidence to a Gentoo beginner, by the fact that it's preconfigured and working well. And it's pretty fast I'd say.

Very happy to hear that. So maybe one of my friend will try Sabayon to see if he is computer will handle Sabayon and after that if he can install his computer with the traditional install minimal CD with the Handbook.

In fact, you can check if your hardware will be compatible with any LiveCD .There is also Knoppix that can do the job too.

d2_racing wrote:

darken wrote:2006-03-16
Sabayon 3.3 released. Today I got it from a mirror and burned it on a DVD, the next minute, rebooting the PC and booting with the fresh DVD. 3.1 GB of software. A lot of options at boot time. I chose the default entry.
Then it started booting, and in the process it detected the sound card (Gentoo 2006.1 failed in that), then guess what? It detected my nvidia video card and loaded the correct drivers for it ( version 9755, the most recent in portage ).
After that, it started Xorg, with my beloved desktop manager, KDE, improved with the kickoff applet for kicker from Suse. A, I forgot to say that first it asked me about the hardware acceleration for the X server. I chose AIGL, and Beryl started, making my windows tremble like jelly .
As a first impression, it's a live dvd much more usable than Gentoo live cd (which uses Gnome, that at least on my last install was crashing repeatedly). It gives more confidence to a Gentoo beginner, by the fact that it's preconfigured and working well. And it's pretty fast I'd say.

Very happy to hear that. So maybe one of my friend will try Sabayon to see if he is computer will handle Sabayon and after that if he can install his computer with the traditional install minimal CD with the Handbook.

In fact, you can check if your hardware will be compatible with any LiveCD .There is also Knoppix that can do the job too.

Would using the minimal CD make him cooler and smarter?

vipernicus wrote:

d2_racing wrote:

darken wrote:2006-03-16
Sabayon 3.3 released. Today I got it from a mirror and burned it on a DVD, the next minute, rebooting the PC and booting with the fresh DVD. 3.1 GB of software. A lot of options at boot time. I chose the default entry.
Then it started booting, and in the process it detected the sound card (Gentoo 2006.1 failed in that), then guess what? It detected my nvidia video card and loaded the correct drivers for it ( version 9755, the most recent in portage ).
After that, it started Xorg, with my beloved desktop manager, KDE, improved with the kickoff applet for kicker from Suse. A, I forgot to say that first it asked me about the hardware acceleration for the X server. I chose AIGL, and Beryl started, making my windows tremble like jelly .
As a first impression, it's a live dvd much more usable than Gentoo live cd (which uses Gnome, that at least on my last install was crashing repeatedly). It gives more confidence to a Gentoo beginner, by the fact that it's preconfigured and working well. And it's pretty fast I'd say.

Very happy to hear that. So maybe one of my friend will try Sabayon to see if he is computer will handle Sabayon and after that if he can install his computer with the traditional install minimal CD with the Handbook.

In fact, you can check if your hardware will be compatible with any LiveCD .There is also Knoppix that can do the job too.

Would using the minimal CD make him cooler and smarter?

No, but he will need to work to get his installation sucessful.Not a click here and and a click there and then....hehehe you have sucessfully install a distribution

d2_racing wrote:

vipernicus wrote:Would using the minimal CD make him cooler and smarter?

No, but he will need to work to get his installation sucessful.Not a click here and and a click there and then....hehehe you have sucessfully install a distribution

Pedantic point: could people please avoid quoting a whole load of stuff that isn't relevant? Not all of us have DSL y'know? /end of rant