Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:34 am
I guess we'll find out tomorrow what happens. I'm gonna go ahead an install beta 2 on my new thinkpad if 2008.0 doesn't come out.
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I don't know if the GTK+ / GUI / LiveCD / installer, or whatever else you would like to call it, has been a complete nuisance. I'm glad that it is an option for new users, but personally I don't think it is very Gentoo-esque. In my opinion, and I have no numbers to back up this claim, the majority of people who would really like to use Gentoo and who would get the most out of the Gentoo experience, will want to install via the CLI. If that would boost efficiency in the release cycle, it might be something to consider. However, I think it's wonderful that there are those individuals that have devoted so much time to creating the installer and if they want to continue, that's great too.AidanJT wrote:The installer has been nothing but a nuisance since day one, with it being an integral part of the 'installer' image releases that have to coincide with the release schedule, either delays need to be made to resolve it's bugs, or throwing it out as is would explain why it's so completely useless. Either way, it's not a good situation, and my original statement that it should have been left out of stable releases until it's actually fit for it's purpose, still stands.dberkholz wrote:The installer is worked on by the installer team, which only has one person overlapping with the releng team. As far as I know, that person isn't doing anything to hold up the release.
pfft its only 3:14 am here, give it a few hours when normal people might be awake.cyblord wrote:Ahh... screw it. I'm installing beta2 now
It doesn't work, and it replaced the 'quick desktop' method that did work, that annoys me, how is that not a nuisance? I'm not saying that the installer should be buried forever, but including it in stable releases misleads people into believing it's fit for use, and it isn't, it should never have been included on anything non-experimental until it was in a state that it didn't eat kittens, and small children, and your p0rn stash on another partition.kalos wrote:I don't know if the GTK+ / GUI / LiveCD / installer, or whatever else you would like to call it, has been a complete nuisance. I'm glad that it is an option for new users, but personally I don't think it is very Gentoo-esque. In my opinion, and I have no numbers to back up this claim, the majority of people who would really like to use Gentoo and who would get the most out of the Gentoo experience, will want to install via the CLI. If that would boost efficiency in the release cycle, it might be something to consider. However, I think it's wonderful that there are those individuals that have devoted so much time to creating the installer and if they want to continue, that's great too.
It is simple. When some thousand downloads start at once one single machine would die. So it has to propagate to the mirrors quickly before the announcement, so people have the opportunity to download in parallel.Benni123 wrote:I'm curious why the task of "Uploading the media" does need so much time. Three days should be more than enough...
Maybe one of the devs still works with an x386 computer and an isdn modem internet connection....
You might not understand what I was writing about. My post was with regards to the release schedule:It is simple. When some thousand downloads start at
Yeah I believe the GUI installer is a waste of time IMO, Gentoo's not Ubuntu ya knowkalos wrote:I don't know if the GTK+ / GUI / LiveCD / installer, or whatever else you would like to call it, has been a complete nuisance. I'm glad that it is an option for new users, but personally I don't think it is very Gentoo-esque. In my opinion, and I have no numbers to back up this claim, the majority of people who would really like to use Gentoo and who would get the most out of the Gentoo experience, will want to install via the CLI. If that would boost efficiency in the release cycle, it might be something to consider. However, I think it's wonderful that there are those individuals that have devoted so much time to creating the installer and if they want to continue, that's great too.
I remember, when I first came upon an open source project, i read the lineThere've been a few unexpected last-second issues. We're still working on those.
What you and the other developers seem to fail to comprehend is that the issue is not that the release is delayed - the issue is that the release is delayed with absolutely no communication of the reasons behind the delay, or assurance that development hasn't just been abandoned. After all, that's what an out-of-date page like the 2008.0 Release Information page conveys.Keep in mind that this schedule is tentative. While I'd like to see a release today, too, that may not happen. There've been a few unexpected last-second issues. We're still working on those.
I second that, communication is a wonderful thingsrunni wrote:What you and the other developers seem to fail to comprehend is that the issue is not that the release is delayed - the issue is that the release is delayed with absolutely no communication of the reasons behind the delay, or assurance that development hasn't just been abandoned. After all, that's what an out-of-date page like the 2008.0 Release Information page conveys.Keep in mind that this schedule is tentative. While I'd like to see a release today, too, that may not happen. There've been a few unexpected last-second issues. We're still working on those.
Thats exactly the point. The only expression one can get from this information policy, is that the developers went into holiday and stopped the release process.What you and the other developers seem to fail to comprehend is that the issue is not that the release is delayed - the issue is that the release is delayed with absolutely no communication of the reasons behind the delay, or assurance that development hasn't just been abandoned.
I get suspicious. What are "a few issues" which cannot be explained in one sentence? A ticket to holiday? A dog who has eaten the storage drives of the devs?There've been a few unexpected last-second issues. We're still working on those.
Considering your low post count, you're probably a troll. But I'll reply to your statement anyway, since this is actually a fairly common sentiment among many members (particularly developers) of the Gentoo community:junkstr wrote:Stop complaining; If you do not like it go use Ubuntu.
It seems that developers of Ubuntu, a distribution that is incessantly derided on this forum, are at least capable of informing the community that the release has been delayed. In this case, they did so a entire month before the release was originally supposed to be out. The Gentoo developers, on the other hand, seem to maintain a pact of absolute secrecy: when the release is completed, it simply emerges from its black box with absolutely no explanation of what occured during the development process. This practice runs in direct opposition to the core philosophies of free/open source software.In an IRC meeting to discuss the delay, Shuttleworth and other core developers stressed that Dapper was ready to go without the extra six weeks, but because of expectations surrounding the feature leaps in this release, Shuttleworth wanted to give everyone more time to fine-tune the distro in order to provide the best possible product at the enterprise level.
I know that my words were harsh. But maybe only such harsh words might be able to communicate to some devs that the notionBenni123 check your wording and argumentation in general!
Is the most dangerous behaviour which members of an open-source project can have.Believe whatever you want; it really doesn't affect us in releng.
We have some issues to fix
then we are at a point, which i have seen not very often in the Linux community.Believe whatever you want
I like gentoo since 2002. At this time, releases were no problems. It had enough devs. I like its ability to configure it exactly in the way I want. also, I like the speed in which packages run. Ubuntu does not have anything compared to portage. Therefore, Ubuntu is no way.Stop complaining; If you do not like it go use Ubuntu.
without any single line mentioning what the problems are, then we are simply somewhat away from the process in which a Linux system is normally developed. If Suse would behave like this, it would perhaps be more acceptable, since its users might not always know what a GCC or a Kernel is. But Gentoo is for experienced users. The Idea of an operating system for experts, where the experts are not informed whats going on simply [/quote]scares me.We have some issues to fix
Yes, and you might not have understood what I wrote about...the very same thing.Benni123 wrote:You might not understand what I was writing about. My post was with regards to the release schedule:It is simple. When some thousand downloads start at
/me raises hand.nightmorph wrote:Heck, it'd be nice if we could get a specific person for Public Relations within Releng to keep the community abreast of the situation, insofar as we are able to inform that PR person of what's going on. (Anyone out there reading this? Want to step up and participate, bring a public face to the work we do? Do you have time for it? Several hours per week. We're looking for you.)
...
You want more transparency? Join the team; we need the help. We need you.
But this seems not to appear in Bugzilla. Why?Just a day or so ago we found out that the 2.6.25 kernel made the PPC/PPC64 CDs useless
Of course, no one has to make something public about his private live.3) personal, private matters.