I had been thinking about all of the answers I have read to people in need of help with their Gentoo systems for a couple of day because it really *bothers* me with the kinds of replies I have seen.
You know, it really *is* unacceptable to say (not in these exact words, but close to) things that imply:
"I don't know what the answer to your question is, so go find another distro."
"This just isn't possible, you don't know what you are asking for....."
"Well this other distribution <X> is better because...."
"It's impossible"
And the list of answers I have read that relate to this sort of thing are too numerous, to go past the top 4.
These kind of answers are completely unacceptable. If you keep telling everyone to blow off and use some other distribution (ala - Debian) then when everyone stops using this one (I know the internal thought process at this point is to think "impossible, that won't happen", let it go, that *is* a possibility) or at least the numbers reduce to not make it worth the effort of the developers to do what they are right now, then there is no point in using the distribution when it falls past a certain point.
The whole point of making a distribution is to get people to use it because YOURS is better insert reason(s) <X> here.
The more people that join, the more developers you pickup along the way, etc.
But considered that Gentoo has become a force to be reckoned with in such a short time, and the support base it has made for its self, shows that the guys in charge of this whole thing are trying to make this to be the best it can be, and when the dust settles in Linux vs. Windows battles to come in the years ahead, this will distro will (hopefully) be a major player, because ultimately it will come down to a few distributions left standing that most people will use.
Now, the people that have been replying for sometime with these really *horrible* answers need to realize one thing....Linux is not what it used to be....it has changed, you have not accepted this yet ..refute it as you may, the landscaping you've laid with your answers you've given so far reflect it and have already defeated any argument you can come up with.
Linux hasn't gotten to a point where it can *truly* compete with the Windows desktop.....but follow me here...keyword is YET and you only hold it back by giving these answers. It also keeps it from being more user friendly, which is where standardization groups are heading Linux.
If you don't think so......heck, look at all the things Linus has added to the 2.6 kernel, and continues to. Compare that to any release of 2.4 (preferably the last release to be fair). So I suppose a lot of you are in a 2.4 mind set and need to switch to a 2.6+ mind set (if you know what I mean, and yes it's all the obvious implications being laid out here), and you will be left behind if you cannot keep up. Not says me, says history, and learning enough from it to know how these things pan out ultimately.
Plus........X.org and on top of that -- KDE, Gnome, enlightenment, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. with all of those continuing to improve, look prettier and be more functional, you can't honestly tell me Linux is not moving that direction......meaning if someone isn't L33T enough "blow......use some other distro....Debian, once again"
And I have also read several different postings where what was being asked in a thread (insert problem <X> here) and it was said by someone with a gazillion posts to the forum said "impossible....Debain go to it" (again -- how about "no"?!). And then another user comes across that thread and proves that it's not impossible and has done <X> and then some.
Plus Gentoo user relations....no other distro is doing that. Purely AMAZING!!
PLEASE......PLEASE -- do not get we wrong, I am not meaning this and a flame, a knock at you or some sort of personal attack, quite the opposite, I think you are all a great bunch of people, in my book, with a wealth of knowledge that *can* be quite helpful.
Just need to work through these problems, because in order to beat the odds......you have to play the game at some point. Odds can seem incredulous, but without working hand-in-hand, giving up before you have even tried or when you hit a bump in the road and just throwing up your arms and saying it's impossible for reason <X>....you will never solve anything that way and communication will continue to deteriorate and egos will flare, happens ever thread I have read at some point and it usual happens at the start of the conversation.
This cannot be good for the distribution as a whole!
[Flame War *Delete*] The kinds of replies people get when
Message
- InfoManiac
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[Flame War - *Delete*] The kinds of replies people get when
Last edited by InfoManiac on Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hi,
i didn't understand your points of view, so i won't argue or comment. Just 1 or 2 notes from (the little) i could understand.
And your sentence didn't make much sence, who is sayng Linux is not moving, and how if someone move to debian will make Linux, X.org, KDE or the others not improve? Sorry it's hard to understand what you pretend to say.
Here another example:
Gentoo allow to compile everything from source implementing the emerge/portage mechanism, Kororaa liveCd offers XGL already implemented, puppy and DSL trys to offer the smaller linux possible.
Or the language that is behinde a disto. Here in Portugal we have Caixinha Mágica, Spain have several, i remember only Linex. There is a Gentoo in spanish, from Puerto Rico i think, cant remember the name... More or less there is one for country.
Or then is a Public-target question. Knoppix with liveCD trials/Rescue approach, Edubuntu or Freeduc for a distro oriented on education packages to schools and so on. They usually not pretend to be better then others, they just offer something specific.
i didn't understand your points of view, so i won't argue or comment. Just 1 or 2 notes from (the little) i could understand.
Debian is a Gnu/Linux distro, so as a lot of others distros have X.org KDE, Gnome, etc.Plus........X.org and on top of that -- KDE, Gnome, enlightenment, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. with all of those continuing to improve, look prettier and be more functional, you can't honestly tell me Linux is not moving that direction......meaning if someone isn't L33T enough "blow......use some other distro....Debian, once again"
And your sentence didn't make much sence, who is sayng Linux is not moving, and how if someone move to debian will make Linux, X.org, KDE or the others not improve? Sorry it's hard to understand what you pretend to say.
Here another example:
Is my bad comprehension of english or your sentence is not complete? The more people that join... etc.(!?) What happens if more people join? Seems to be implicit or something...The more people that join, the more developers you pickup along the way, etc.
This is strange too, and i don't find it true. Sorry. Most distro exists not to prove better then the others but for some technical requirement or some specific use or caracteristic. As examples,The whole point of making a distribution is to get people to use it because YOURS is better insert reason(s) <X> here.
Gentoo allow to compile everything from source implementing the emerge/portage mechanism, Kororaa liveCd offers XGL already implemented, puppy and DSL trys to offer the smaller linux possible.
Or the language that is behinde a disto. Here in Portugal we have Caixinha Mágica, Spain have several, i remember only Linex. There is a Gentoo in spanish, from Puerto Rico i think, cant remember the name... More or less there is one for country.
Or then is a Public-target question. Knoppix with liveCD trials/Rescue approach, Edubuntu or Freeduc for a distro oriented on education packages to schools and so on. They usually not pretend to be better then others, they just offer something specific.
ESTRAGON: We've lost our rights?
VLADIMIR: (distinctly) We got rid of them.
VLADIMIR: (distinctly) We got rid of them.
- InfoManiac
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Thanks for proving my point further, all assistance is appreciated.
You make accusations of which you yourself make no sens as you ripped my paragraphs into little sentences and thew nothing but blasphemy at me and for whatever reason, you got all bent out of shape, go back to your AOL chat room .
It's obvious you really know not what you talk about becuase there is a long history to Linux, I have studied it well and you ask about what is implied, you shouldn't have to if you *really* knew anything of Linux.
It's pointless to coverse with you any farther becuase I've seen many of your posts before, your shred up a paragraph, take it out of context, put your spin on it.
You may have a lot of posts, doesn't mean they are intellectual, this reply from you as well as future replies after this current posting, which I am guaranteed to have this all ripped to shreds and have radnom mumbling atached it as well.
You can reply to this as much as you like but if you continue to stab at me and don't use some sort of reasonable judgment and *think* before you speak (giving ample time for processing before blurting any old thing out) conduct yourself in a mature fashion, I am just going to ignore your posts, so say what you will.
Provide for good humor though
HEE HEE HEE HEE too good! 
You make accusations of which you yourself make no sens as you ripped my paragraphs into little sentences and thew nothing but blasphemy at me and for whatever reason, you got all bent out of shape, go back to your AOL chat room .
It's obvious you really know not what you talk about becuase there is a long history to Linux, I have studied it well and you ask about what is implied, you shouldn't have to if you *really* knew anything of Linux.
It's pointless to coverse with you any farther becuase I've seen many of your posts before, your shred up a paragraph, take it out of context, put your spin on it.
You may have a lot of posts, doesn't mean they are intellectual, this reply from you as well as future replies after this current posting, which I am guaranteed to have this all ripped to shreds and have radnom mumbling atached it as well.
You can reply to this as much as you like but if you continue to stab at me and don't use some sort of reasonable judgment and *think* before you speak (giving ample time for processing before blurting any old thing out) conduct yourself in a mature fashion, I am just going to ignore your posts, so say what you will.
Provide for good humor though
HEE HEE HEE HEE too good! sorry 
??
are you having a bad time or something?
I not "ripped" a single paragraph of you. I quoted full paragraphs separated in original posts by empty lines!
And where the hell you saw my "many of your(my) posts before" where i "shred up a paragraph, take it out of context, put your(mine) spin on it "? Thats a personal attack. I don't even know you or post anywhere where you participate.
I just mention that one of your sentences seems to bet let unfinish, by laps or rush (happen to me a lot)... and another don't make sence (look more a debian rant then anything, but who knows...)
Oh well, i don't care a bit as the subject don't even interested me.
Relax. Have a better day.
??are you having a bad time or something?
I not "ripped" a single paragraph of you. I quoted full paragraphs separated in original posts by empty lines!
And where the hell you saw my "many of your(my) posts before" where i "shred up a paragraph, take it out of context, put your(mine) spin on it "? Thats a personal attack. I don't even know you or post anywhere where you participate.
I just mention that one of your sentences seems to bet let unfinish, by laps or rush (happen to me a lot)... and another don't make sence (look more a debian rant then anything, but who knows...)
Oh well, i don't care a bit as the subject don't even interested me.
Relax. Have a better day.
ESTRAGON: We've lost our rights?
VLADIMIR: (distinctly) We got rid of them.
VLADIMIR: (distinctly) We got rid of them.
- InfoManiac
- n00b
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- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:32 pm
Not really, just sounded pretty off the dude, ya gotta admit.
Who says I am mad? this is just like email, the only perception of anger, happiness, etc. that it has is the one you assign to it as this kind of communication method is non-contextual. Unfortunately it's not like talking in person so it's a harder game to play.
If this didn't interest you, why did you reply, that makes no sense.....are you just wanting to waste time and clear out the room? I mean that was a complete waste of time!
Also you went of about XGL and all of this and TOTALLY de-railed from the subject and you were all over the board....honestly I don't know what you are talking about.. it's random.
Plus I was *not* talking about Linux in general, sorry if I sounded like I was, but you know what I was talking about (Gentoo) hence the *forums.gentoo.org* part of this whole thing, c'mon you're split heirs.
Then you accuse me of things like pretending to say things, uh....first off that's an oxymoron, I did say it because pretending to would imply that I didn't.....second....I do not understand the point of doing that is, saying I have bad English, the list is endless....you think after the 10001th time you think "geee...maybe it's me!"
You're literally going on the attack, what the heck? I'd say it sounds like you're the one having the bad day? Once again accusations.
Anyways...take easy....peace.
Shall we get back on track?
That is, if this thread hasn't gott so off track that it's gone to waste enough to salvage.
I'd rather just delete out this little tiff we had since anyone who reads over this is going to just get turned off by it (FYI - both our fault), if you delete your postings I'll delete mine in good faith.
Who says I am mad? this is just like email, the only perception of anger, happiness, etc. that it has is the one you assign to it as this kind of communication method is non-contextual. Unfortunately it's not like talking in person so it's a harder game to play.
If this didn't interest you, why did you reply, that makes no sense.....are you just wanting to waste time and clear out the room? I mean that was a complete waste of time!
Also you went of about XGL and all of this and TOTALLY de-railed from the subject and you were all over the board....honestly I don't know what you are talking about.. it's random.
Plus I was *not* talking about Linux in general, sorry if I sounded like I was, but you know what I was talking about (Gentoo) hence the *forums.gentoo.org* part of this whole thing, c'mon you're split heirs.
Then you accuse me of things like pretending to say things, uh....first off that's an oxymoron, I did say it because pretending to would imply that I didn't.....second....I do not understand the point of doing that is, saying I have bad English, the list is endless....you think after the 10001th time you think "geee...maybe it's me!"
You're literally going on the attack, what the heck? I'd say it sounds like you're the one having the bad day? Once again accusations.
Anyways...take easy....peace.
Shall we get back on track?
That is, if this thread hasn't gott so off track that it's gone to waste enough to salvage.
I'd rather just delete out this little tiff we had since anyone who reads over this is going to just get turned off by it (FYI - both our fault), if you delete your postings I'll delete mine in good faith.
- InfoManiac
- n00b
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:32 pm
[Flame War *Delete*] The kinds of replies people get when
I had been thinking about all of the answers I have read to people in need of help with their Gentoo systems for a couple of day because it really *bothers* me with the kinds of replies I have seen.
You know, it really *is* unacceptable to say (not in these exact words, but close to) things that imply:
"I don't know what the answer to your question is, so go find another distro."
"This just isn't possible, you don't know what you are asking for....."
"Well this other distribution <X> is better because...."
"It's impossible"
And the list of answers I have read that relate to this sort of thing are too numerous, to go past the top 4.
These kind of answers are completely unacceptable. If you keep telling everyone to blow off and use some other distribution (ala - Debian) then when everyone stops using this one (I know the internal thought process at this point is to think "impossible, that won't happen", let it go, that *is* a possibility) or at least the numbers reduce to not make it worth the effort of the developers to do what they are right now, then there is no point in using the distribution when it falls past a certain point.
The whole point of making a distribution is to get people to use it because YOURS is better insert reason(s) <X> here.
The more people that join, the more developers you pickup along the way, etc.
But considered that Gentoo has become a force to be reckoned with in such a short time, and the support base it has made for its self, shows that the guys in charge of this whole thing are trying to make this to be the best it can be, and when the dust settles in Linux vs. Windows battles to come in the years ahead, this will distro will (hopefully) be a major player, because ultimately it will come down to a few distributions left standing that most people will use.
Now, the people that have been replying for sometime with these really *horrible* answers need to realize one thing....Linux is not what it used to be....it has changed, you have not accepted this yet ..refute it as you may, the landscaping you've laid with your answers you've given so far reflect it and have already defeated any argument you can come up with.
Linux hasn't gotten to a point where it can *truly* compete with the Windows desktop.....but follow me here...keyword is YET and you only hold it back by giving these answers. It also keeps it from being more user friendly, which is where standardization groups are heading Linux.
If you don't think so......heck, look at all the things Linus has added to the 2.6 kernel, and continues to. Compare that to any release of 2.4 (preferably the last release to be fair). So I suppose a lot of you are in a 2.4 mind set and need to switch to a 2.6+ mind set (if you know what I mean, and yes it's all the obvious implications being laid out here), and you will be left behind if you cannot keep up. Not says me, says history, and learning enough from it to know how these things pan out ultimately.
Plus........X.org and on top of that -- KDE, Gnome, enlightenment, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. with all of those continuing to improve, look prettier and be more functional, you can't honestly tell me Linux is not moving that direction......meaning if someone isn't L33T enough "blow......use some other distro....Debian, once again"
And I have also read several different postings where what was being asked in a thread (insert problem <X> here) and it was said by someone with a gazillion posts to the forum said "impossible....Debain go to it" (again -- how about "no"?!). And then another user comes across that thread and proves that it's not impossible and has done <X> and then some.
Plus Gentoo user relations....no other distro is doing that. Purely AMAZING!!
PLEASE......PLEASE -- do not get we wrong, I am not meaning this and a flame, a knock at you or some sort of personal attack, quite the opposite, I think you are all a great bunch of people, in my book, with a wealth of knowledge that *can* be quite helpful.
Just need to work through these problems, because in order to beat the odds......you have to play the game at some point. Odds can seem incredulous, but without working hand-in-hand, giving up before you have even tried or when you hit a bump in the road and just throwing up your arms and saying it's impossible for reason <X>....you will never solve anything that way and communication will continue to deteriorate and egos will flare, happens ever thread I have read at some point and it usual happens at the start of the conversation.
This cannot be good for the distribution as a whole!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS - this is a re-try (hence try #2, on the topic line) at creating a thread that won't dive bomb right off the bast as with my previous try here:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-33 ... ml#3396823
PLEASE, I request that we all be level headed and not start lobbing grenades at one another, this is not the reason I bring this topic up.
You know, it really *is* unacceptable to say (not in these exact words, but close to) things that imply:
"I don't know what the answer to your question is, so go find another distro."
"This just isn't possible, you don't know what you are asking for....."
"Well this other distribution <X> is better because...."
"It's impossible"
And the list of answers I have read that relate to this sort of thing are too numerous, to go past the top 4.
These kind of answers are completely unacceptable. If you keep telling everyone to blow off and use some other distribution (ala - Debian) then when everyone stops using this one (I know the internal thought process at this point is to think "impossible, that won't happen", let it go, that *is* a possibility) or at least the numbers reduce to not make it worth the effort of the developers to do what they are right now, then there is no point in using the distribution when it falls past a certain point.
The whole point of making a distribution is to get people to use it because YOURS is better insert reason(s) <X> here.
The more people that join, the more developers you pickup along the way, etc.
But considered that Gentoo has become a force to be reckoned with in such a short time, and the support base it has made for its self, shows that the guys in charge of this whole thing are trying to make this to be the best it can be, and when the dust settles in Linux vs. Windows battles to come in the years ahead, this will distro will (hopefully) be a major player, because ultimately it will come down to a few distributions left standing that most people will use.
Now, the people that have been replying for sometime with these really *horrible* answers need to realize one thing....Linux is not what it used to be....it has changed, you have not accepted this yet ..refute it as you may, the landscaping you've laid with your answers you've given so far reflect it and have already defeated any argument you can come up with.
Linux hasn't gotten to a point where it can *truly* compete with the Windows desktop.....but follow me here...keyword is YET and you only hold it back by giving these answers. It also keeps it from being more user friendly, which is where standardization groups are heading Linux.
If you don't think so......heck, look at all the things Linus has added to the 2.6 kernel, and continues to. Compare that to any release of 2.4 (preferably the last release to be fair). So I suppose a lot of you are in a 2.4 mind set and need to switch to a 2.6+ mind set (if you know what I mean, and yes it's all the obvious implications being laid out here), and you will be left behind if you cannot keep up. Not says me, says history, and learning enough from it to know how these things pan out ultimately.
Plus........X.org and on top of that -- KDE, Gnome, enlightenment, XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. with all of those continuing to improve, look prettier and be more functional, you can't honestly tell me Linux is not moving that direction......meaning if someone isn't L33T enough "blow......use some other distro....Debian, once again"
And I have also read several different postings where what was being asked in a thread (insert problem <X> here) and it was said by someone with a gazillion posts to the forum said "impossible....Debain go to it" (again -- how about "no"?!). And then another user comes across that thread and proves that it's not impossible and has done <X> and then some.
Plus Gentoo user relations....no other distro is doing that. Purely AMAZING!!
PLEASE......PLEASE -- do not get we wrong, I am not meaning this and a flame, a knock at you or some sort of personal attack, quite the opposite, I think you are all a great bunch of people, in my book, with a wealth of knowledge that *can* be quite helpful.
Just need to work through these problems, because in order to beat the odds......you have to play the game at some point. Odds can seem incredulous, but without working hand-in-hand, giving up before you have even tried or when you hit a bump in the road and just throwing up your arms and saying it's impossible for reason <X>....you will never solve anything that way and communication will continue to deteriorate and egos will flare, happens ever thread I have read at some point and it usual happens at the start of the conversation.
This cannot be good for the distribution as a whole!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS - this is a re-try (hence try #2, on the topic line) at creating a thread that won't dive bomb right off the bast as with my previous try here:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-33 ... ml#3396823
PLEASE, I request that we all be level headed and not start lobbing grenades at one another, this is not the reason I bring this topic up.
Last edited by InfoManiac on Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- InfoManiac
- n00b
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- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:32 pm
I honestly belive this thread is dead, trying again here:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-33 ... ml#3396911
I pray this doesn't bomb right away and we can get a better thread discussion wihtout anyone pouding anyone....please....
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-33 ... ml#3396911
I pray this doesn't bomb right away and we can get a better thread discussion wihtout anyone pouding anyone....please....
Seconded.thorpe wrote:Sorry... but can you just get to the point?
One other thing:
Post 1: Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:42 pm in Other Things Gentoo
Post 2: Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:43 pm in Gentoo Chat
So, basicly, you kinda demand people to discuss your ... things-starting-to-look-like-trolling things. But you don't even have the patience to even wait for a day or two and actually wait for people to - I don't know - THINK on it? In case you assumed your thread would've been off better in Gentoo chat (which it is imo) you could've asked a moderator to move it.
Ow and another very basic thing about 'starting a discussion': if people do react and share their point of view on the matter, reacting with
is NOT how discussions work among grown-ups.You make accusations of which you yourself make no sens as you ripped my paragraphs into little sentences and thew nothing but blasphemy at me and for whatever reason, you got all bent out of shape, go back to your AOL chat room .
Maybe you should just forget about the whole thing and sulk in a corner?
- Archangel1
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- Location: Work
Re: The kinds of replies people get when asking for help (tr
Get over it.
(edit: previous post was too long. edited for brevity)
(edit: previous post was too long. edited for brevity)
What are you, stupid?
spufi wrote:Seconded.thorpe wrote:Sorry... but can you just get to the point?
One other thing:
Post 1: Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:42 pm in Other Things Gentoo
Post 2: Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:43 pm in Gentoo Chat
So, basicly, you kinda demand people to discuss your ... things-starting-to-look-like-trolling things. But you don't even have the patience to even wait for a day or two and actually wait for people to - I don't know - THINK on it? In case you assumed your thread would've been off better in Gentoo chat (which it is imo) you could've asked a moderator to move it.
Ow and another very basic thing about 'starting a discussion': if people do react and share their point of view on the matter, reacting withis NOT how discussions work among grown-ups.You make accusations of which you yourself make no sens as you ripped my paragraphs into little sentences and thew nothing but blasphemy at me and for whatever reason, you got all bent out of shape, go back to your AOL chat room .
Maybe you should just forget about the whole thing and sulk in a corner?
I agree!
I have rarely seen this kind of a response, and any time I have seen anything similar was when people were asking for a feature/app from <insert distro name here> that portage did not (obviously) provide. As stated already, if you cant wait a day or two to see if someone has a solution to your problem then go back to windows. Or go use debian/redhat/suse as they are more likely to cause you less grief than the awesomenessessess (shite too many ess's) that is gentoo.
I agree your post is too long. There are also plenty of other threads discussing this or very similar issues. Why don't you continue one of them instead of starting a new one.
The answers you mention are rare in this Forum. Most of the time they are used when the people asking questions start argueing that
* This would be easier on Windows, Mac OS, Debian,...
* They are too lazy (their own words) to implement the solutions suggested
* They ask overly broad questions and fail to comply with the request for details
I see your point in some cases but it results from a different perspective. People like you think it is very important that Linux gains a huge market share and all other OS are replaced by Linux (or even better: your favorite distro) sooner or later.
IMO you are making the same mistake Windows does: You think there can be a solution that is optimal for all types of users. Gentoo however is (please don't quote the Gentoo Mission Statement on me, I am talking about current facts, not past visions) a distro optimized for power users (or to be precise: for administration by power users, use might be different). If we move Gentoo into the direction that you call "more user-friendly" we make it less optimal for power users which means we have a result that is on average better but worse than optimal for any specific user type.
The whole point of making a distribution is to create the optimal OS for yourself. Other people using it are a side-effect.
If there was such a thing as the ultimate distro there wouldn't be more than 4 or 5 distros (for the different kinds of uses; mostly like one for desktop, one for servers, one for boot-from-cd-firewalls,...; maybe multiplied by architectures) and everyone interested in one kind of use would work on the same distro as the goal they see would be the same for all. This is clearly not the case.
The answers you mention are rare in this Forum. Most of the time they are used when the people asking questions start argueing that
* This would be easier on Windows, Mac OS, Debian,...
* They are too lazy (their own words) to implement the solutions suggested
* They ask overly broad questions and fail to comply with the request for details
I see your point in some cases but it results from a different perspective. People like you think it is very important that Linux gains a huge market share and all other OS are replaced by Linux (or even better: your favorite distro) sooner or later.
IMO you are making the same mistake Windows does: You think there can be a solution that is optimal for all types of users. Gentoo however is (please don't quote the Gentoo Mission Statement on me, I am talking about current facts, not past visions) a distro optimized for power users (or to be precise: for administration by power users, use might be different). If we move Gentoo into the direction that you call "more user-friendly" we make it less optimal for power users which means we have a result that is on average better but worse than optimal for any specific user type.
This is your point of view, mine is different:The whole point of making a distribution is to get people to use it because YOURS is better insert reason(s) <X> here.
The whole point of making a distribution is to create the optimal OS for yourself. Other people using it are a side-effect.
If there was such a thing as the ultimate distro there wouldn't be more than 4 or 5 distros (for the different kinds of uses; mostly like one for desktop, one for servers, one for boot-from-cd-firewalls,...; maybe multiplied by architectures) and everyone interested in one kind of use would work on the same distro as the goal they see would be the same for all. This is clearly not the case.
Sorry to mention it, but the topic itself is a complete waste of time to begin with...InfoManiac wrote:If this didn't interest you, why did you reply, that makes no sense.....are you just wanting to waste time and clear out the room? I mean that was a complete waste of time!
The Gentoo forums are amongst the most informative and responsive on the internet. I just don't get your point.
Instead of complaining about some imaginative problems please try to help someone with their real problems.
Thank you.
This is probably the thread why he is complaining:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-44 ... ight-.html
Basically he complains that vmware is poorly supported by Gentoo. This is probably due to the fact, that vmware is only used by a small number of people and the lack of developers that Gentoo has. Another point is that many people that need a virtual machine probably go for qemu, because it is free as speech. I'm no GNU zealot, but if there's a open alternative then I'd rather go for it.
And people really tried to help him in the above thread, but for me it sounds more like he has an "fix it for me now"-attitude. And gentoo simply isn't a "fix it for me now"-distribution. There have always been - and probably will always be - issues that will need a great effort from the user's side.
I think that "maybe you should look into another distribution" is a valid answer on the forums, since gentoo really isn't for anyone (this is not meant in an elitist way).
A few weeks ago I also killed my gentoo, because I thought I wanted to go with an distribution that is easier to administer. And I went back to gentoo about 5 days later - If I had gone to the Ubuntu forum to complain about a few things that I didn't like about it, they probably would also have answered "why don't you go back to gentoo?".
Honestly I must say that the Gentoo forums are excellent and I got a great deal of help here.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-44 ... ight-.html
Basically he complains that vmware is poorly supported by Gentoo. This is probably due to the fact, that vmware is only used by a small number of people and the lack of developers that Gentoo has. Another point is that many people that need a virtual machine probably go for qemu, because it is free as speech. I'm no GNU zealot, but if there's a open alternative then I'd rather go for it.
And people really tried to help him in the above thread, but for me it sounds more like he has an "fix it for me now"-attitude. And gentoo simply isn't a "fix it for me now"-distribution. There have always been - and probably will always be - issues that will need a great effort from the user's side.
I think that "maybe you should look into another distribution" is a valid answer on the forums, since gentoo really isn't for anyone (this is not meant in an elitist way).
A few weeks ago I also killed my gentoo, because I thought I wanted to go with an distribution that is easier to administer. And I went back to gentoo about 5 days later - If I had gone to the Ubuntu forum to complain about a few things that I didn't like about it, they probably would also have answered "why don't you go back to gentoo?".
Honestly I must say that the Gentoo forums are excellent and I got a great deal of help here.
I can't breathe.
- MrUlterior
- Guru
- Posts: 511
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- Location: Switzerland
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Having read your various posts, I have to conclude that the problem lies with you.InfoManiac wrote:...
This is quite simply because you're a poor communicator. The lengthy posts with excessive bold text and incessant demands that you be helped imply you feel you're owed something here. You aren't. Why should anyone read through all that diatribe to find that you barely detail the actual problem & spend more time assigning blame, whinging about how easy the solution is & your expectation that gentoo devs focus on your problem?
If anything is unacceptable, feel free to move on or create a better alternative. If that too is unacceptable, well you've trapped yourself in a recursive problem, so PEBKAC
But on the whole I'd suggest you consider your posts better (length, topic, tone, and emphasis) and you'll quickly get better replies.Misanthropy 2.0 - enough hate to go around
Also works fine with firefox over here. Seems that the problem lies on your side Reikinio.beatryder wrote:Hmm so it is.... not sure why... It works fine in konqueror...Reikinio wrote:
I think InfoManiac needs a hug,
/me hugs InfoManiac.
[OT]
beatryder: Just to let you know that your blog layout is broken(using Firefox 1.5.0.3)
[/OT]
no, he was right.. there was a problem... all fixed now... Man I hate WP's editor... I think I am gonna disable itloki99 wrote:Also works fine with firefox over here. Seems that the problem lies on your side Reikinio.beatryder wrote:Hmm so it is.... not sure why... It works fine in konqueror...Reikinio wrote:
I think InfoManiac needs a hug,
/me hugs InfoManiac.
[OT]
beatryder: Just to let you know that your blog layout is broken(using Firefox 1.5.0.3)
[/OT]
- InfoManiac
- n00b
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:32 pm
What is your malfunction?
You've absolutely contributed nothing, the answers you supply are just straight out pot shots, you haven't any idea what it is you're talking about, as you just say whatever you feel like without applying any sort of filter to it.
You're a flamer in the making. Stop trying to turn every thread you come across into a flame war, becuase you'll be ignored promptly.
You've absolutely contributed nothing, the answers you supply are just straight out pot shots, you haven't any idea what it is you're talking about, as you just say whatever you feel like without applying any sort of filter to it.
You're a flamer in the making. Stop trying to turn every thread you come across into a flame war, becuase you'll be ignored promptly.
- InfoManiac
- n00b
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:32 pm
Not even close -- hope the group of you know how to swallow your pride....this is whyTenobok wrote:This is probably the thread why he is complaining:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-44 ... ight-.html
Basically he complains that vmware is poorly supported by Gentoo. This is probably due to the fact, that vmware is only used by a small number of people and the lack of developers that Gentoo has. Another point is that many people that need a virtual machine probably go for qemu, because it is free as speech. I'm no GNU zealot, but if there's a open alternative then I'd rather go for it.
And people really tried to help him in the above thread, but for me it sounds more like he has an "fix it for me now"-attitude. And gentoo simply isn't a "fix it for me now"-distribution. There have always been - and probably will always be - issues that will need a great effort from the user's side.
I think that "maybe you should look into another distribution" is a valid answer on the forums, since gentoo really isn't for anyone (this is not meant in an elitist way).
A few weeks ago I also killed my gentoo, because I thought I wanted to go with an distribution that is easier to administer. And I went back to gentoo about 5 days later - If I had gone to the Ubuntu forum to complain about a few things that I didn't like about it, they probably would also have answered "why don't you go back to gentoo?".
Honestly I must say that the Gentoo forums are excellent and I got a great deal of help here.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-31 ... rador.html
YES, you can find a thread someone has posted and ASSUME this is why.
The rest of you prove my point, and for the whole get over it thing.....look like you need to look in the mirror.
Obvious there is nothing but ignorance to be had by all!
Last edited by InfoManiac on Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.