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Too much politics (read: flame wars) in OTW
Yes
51%
 51%  [ 53 ]
No
37%
 37%  [ 39 ]
Undecided
10%
 10%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 103

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SlicerDicer
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

solomonHk wrote:
ROFL, howd you know the reason I come to OTW?????


Yea I love flame-sauce! Good stuff and when you can add some gas to it lets bbq! :twisted: :twisted:
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hellbringer
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Political discussion is fine for me, although many a times it includes a lot of name calling, but then, I really don't care about that.
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SlicerDicer
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

solomonHk wrote:

And I would hope that anyone, ANYONE, on this board that has been exposed to my cold, methodical, conservative side has also seen that I am not as serious as I get in some posts. Mostly I am here to have fun with people. Yeah, if you wanna call it trolling, yes I do get a kick out making people go off the deep end. But its all in good fun.

Oh well! Cheers everyone!


I love your commentary man good stuff! I have had a many good laughs off your posts :twisted: may you never change 8)
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plate
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Care for a mod's viewpoint? I don't think you'll like it, but since you asked: No, there's never too much political debate. Unfortunately, the quality of arguments in this forum is deplorable.

We always had users loitering in OTW to fight boredom between two emerges, mind you. It's just that before the big Gentoo popularity rush in 2003, OTW was dominated by people with interesting opinions, excellent manners and impeccable writing style. Moderating consisted basically of sorting out the duplicates and moving threads from one forum to the other, in order to better their chances of getting an answer. We also had the occasional hothead, of course, but unlike today those got taken care of by the other users rather efficiently*. In general, no moderator intervention was needed, no banning of user IDs, and certainly no explicit OTW guidelines... Personally, I used to enjoy discussing politics a lot in OTW, and just like starting to use Gentoo had been an incredible learning experience for me, I got to learn a lot here, in an exceptional atmosphere created by knowledgeable, friendly people from all over the planet.

Today, all I do in OTW is teaching manners to brats whose intellectual horizon ends somewhere around their belly buttons, and closing threads that got out of hand because somebody thought they'd turn it into a phpBB version of the Jerry Springer show. This has nothing to do with the amount of politics being discussed, only with the mindless logorrhea displayed by the participants in the debate.

You know, these forums were once famous for the absence of flame wars, especially OTW. Makes you rather sad, doesn't it... Oh well, Kindergarten teacher wasn't part of the job description when we got hired as moderators, but we have quickly adapted.

* Best practice award goes to "drowning flamers in puddles of condescendence"

EDIT: Moved from OTW to Gentoo Forums Feedback. :roll:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a really simple solution to the number of political threads. DON'T READ THEM. Unless of course you want to.
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klieber
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feliperal wrote:
I think the moderators getting involved is wrong and limits the freedom of speech on these forums...Although it is not considered a public forum, the moderators have said that they would respect peoples opinons to some extent. Having them lock the posts or deleting them because some people thing they are offensive is censorship!

We always have and always will promote an atmosphere of polite debate over barroom brawls. If you came here to slug it out and get down and dirty with your fellow Gentoo users, you're in the wrong place.

You are absolutely free to express your opinions here, but you will be expected to do so in a professional, courteous manner. Calling someone a dumbfuck has never and will never be tolerated. Telling someone you feel their opinion is misguided and then backing it up with your own arguments is welcomed and encouraged. If you don't see a mile-wide chasm between the two, I suggest you ask for a refund from whatever school you went to as a child.

feliperal wrote:
Just because someone has a far out or unpopular view, he should be able to express it to the point where is not threatning the person with violence.

We have never censored someone for expressing their views. We have and will continue to ban anyone who insists on acting like a troglodyte.

Some people may disagree with this. That's fine. Nobody forces you to participate here and you're welcome to set up your own user forums with your own rules. As long as you're a guest of these forums, however, you will be expected to follow the house rules.

--kurt
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stonent
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormcrowley wrote:
stonent wrote:
Unlike certain people, I can participate in threads and argue without resorting to tactics that will get the thread locked.

That is why I will always know I'm superior. :twisted: :wink:


And modest. :D


What's the point in being modest if you can't brag about it from time to time? :D
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abzs2k
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
As long as you're a guest of these forums, however, you will be expected to follow the house rules.

--kurt

Thanks. Anytime someone argues with me about expressing their opinion in profanity using their "god given right to free speech" I shall point them here. :D
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klieber
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abzs2k wrote:
klieber wrote:
As long as you're a guest of these forums, however, you will be expected to follow the house rules.

--kurt

Thanks. Anytime someone argues with me about expressing their opinion in profanity using their "god given right to free speech" I shall point them here. :D

You may also wish to point them here. The policy of being nice to your neighbor is not new.

--kurt
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stonent
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
here. The policy of being nice to your neighbor is not new.

--kurt


You mean here?

Quote:
You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
JUDAISM: Leviticus 19.18

Treat others as thou wouldst be treated by thyself.
SIKHISM: Adi Grandth

Desire not for anyone the things that ye would not desire for
yourselves.
BAHÁ'Í FAITH: Gleanings 66

That nature is only good when it shall not do unto another whatever is
not good for its own self.
ZOROASTRIANISM: Dadistan-i-Dinik

All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even
so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
CHRISTIANITY: Matthew 7.12

Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he
loves for himself.
ISLAM: Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi

Hurt not others with that which pains yourself.
BUDDHISM: Udana 5.13

Regard your Neighbour's gain as your own gain and your neighbour's
loss as your own loss.
TAOISM:T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien

Never do to others what would pain thyself.
HINDUISM: Panchatantra 3.104

Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.
CONFUCIANISM: Analects 15.23

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puggy
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plate wrote:
Care for a mod's viewpoint? I don't think you'll like it, but since you asked: No, there's never too much political debate. Unfortunately, the quality of arguments in this forum is deplorable.

We always had users loitering in OTW to fight boredom between two emerges, mind you. It's just that before the big Gentoo popularity rush in 2003, OTW was dominated by people with interesting opinions, excellent manners and impeccable writing style. Moderating consisted basically of sorting out the duplicates and moving threads from one forum to the other, in order to better their chances of getting an answer. We also had the occasional hothead, of course, but unlike today those got taken care of by the other users rather efficiently*. In general, no moderator intervention was needed, no banning of user IDs, and certainly no explicit OTW guidelines... Personally, I used to enjoy discussing politics a lot in OTW, and just like starting to use Gentoo had been an incredible learning experience for me, I got to learn a lot here, in an exceptional atmosphere created by knowledgeable, friendly people from all over the planet.

Today, all I do in OTW is teaching manners to brats whose intellectual horizon ends somewhere around their belly buttons, and closing threads that got out of hand because somebody thought they'd turn it into a phpBB version of the Jerry Springer show. This has nothing to do with the amount of politics being discussed, only with the mindless logorrhea displayed by the participants in the debate.

You know, these forums were once famous for the absence of flame wars, especially OTW. Makes you rather sad, doesn't it... Oh well, Kindergarten teacher wasn't part of the job description when we got hired as moderators, but we have quickly adapted.

* Best practice award goes to "drowning flamers in puddles of condescendence"

EDIT: Moved from OTW to Gentoo Forums Feedback. :roll:


Amen
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stonent
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that all who agree should put a link in their signature line denoting that they will not be ones who will resort to threats, personal attacks and name calling.
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feliperal
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These days on the forums, people are always too touchy and sensitive....Flames can easily rise while debating subjects like War in Iraq, U.S. Politics, and Cultural Differences, Religion vs Abortion, Religion...

I agree that the forums shouldn't have any threats and direct attacks against anyone. Heckling and harrassment is wrong. But, what for example, I want to refer to those people who beheaded Nick Berg as sick fuckers who deserve to be killed? Some peopl, who are anti-war, could be strongly offended...

One of the posts I made in a thread I created was venting my anger of the brutality, and encouraged strong U.S. action against the people who would support or harbour these miscreants.

Even an indirect comment such as calling someones ideology (liberalism or conservatism) as BS and stating why could be offensive and cause a storm of flames.

People need to stop harrassing and heckling people and, if pissed off at the person, go take a cold shower or meditate to cool off.
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den_RDC
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with plate - although i am not a fulltime debater (see old join-date and low postcount), i remeber the good old times when the political discussions in OTW were actually pretty civilised and pjp was still called canuslupus (i hope i remebered this right). I think i actually saw people changing/adjusting their position back then. But the current political threads have become a pissing contest (or pingpong match). If someone succeeds to post something insightfull without insulting anybody it tends to get lost in the sheer amount of piss :) And it creates a climate in wich everbody get's annoyed and all people (regardless of right/left) with a remotly moderate opinion leave and only the hardliners are left to produce even more piss. Maybe a temporary ban on pissing is in order, or we'll just have to wait till it stops.
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really
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

den_RDC wrote:
I agree with plate - although i am not a fulltime debater (see old join-date and low postcount), i remeber the good old times when the political discussions in OTW were actually pretty civilised and pjp was still called canuslupus (i hope i remebered this right). I think i actually saw people changing/adjusting their position back then. But the current political threads have become a pissing contest (or pingpong match). If someone succeeds to post something insightfull without insulting anybody it tends to get lost in the sheer amount of piss :) And it creates a climate in wich everbody get's annoyed and all people (regardless of right/left) with a remotly moderate opinion leave and only the hardliners are left to produce even more piss. Maybe a temporary ban on pissing is in order, or we'll just have to wait till it stops.
Righly said.

I remember those times too :)

Hah! You joined just two days before me. Damn you.
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Mnemia
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

really wrote:
den_RDC wrote:
I agree with plate - although i am not a fulltime debater (see old join-date and low postcount), i remeber the good old times when the political discussions in OTW were actually pretty civilised and pjp was still called canuslupus (i hope i remebered this right). I think i actually saw people changing/adjusting their position back then. But the current political threads have become a pissing contest (or pingpong match). If someone succeeds to post something insightfull without insulting anybody it tends to get lost in the sheer amount of piss :) And it creates a climate in wich everbody get's annoyed and all people (regardless of right/left) with a remotly moderate opinion leave and only the hardliners are left to produce even more piss. Maybe a temporary ban on pissing is in order, or we'll just have to wait till it stops.
Righly said.

I remember those times too :)

Hah! You joined just two days before me. Damn you.


The forums were fantastic in the begininng. We actually managed to have some rational discussions about very touchy subjects like the existence of God, politics, etc. People back then used to regularly apologize if they even inadvertently offended anyone by coming off too harshly in tone, for example. Sadly, it seems that there are too many people with poor manners on here now. That's to be expected as the forums grew (Slashdot was great when it was young too, before they had the moderation system and threading. Just look at the discussions there now :? ) It's too bad that people can't be more civil but there isn't really any way to enforce that people be polite unless you're willing to ban everyone who crosses the line. That solution sucks because everyone has minor slip-ups where they say something a little harsh. IMHO, unfortunately, nothing can change the fact that when groups get too big manners go out the window.
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AlterEgo
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel much better, doctor,
since I gave up lurking @ OTW :D
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lagrima
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it wouldnt be called otw if it wasnt just that lol
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Ben2040
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I don't think there is anything wrong with any arguament, here at least, as it can't degenerate to the level of violence....

Ben
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srlinuxx
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

geeezusss, there is too much politics everywhere. the joke newsgroups have been ruined by them and there is way too much here as well.

but opinions are like assholes.... I know some folks enjoy it. but I just feel like it's hopeless. it don't matter who gets elected, one's as bad and corrupt as the other. The country's going to continue to deteriorate along with much of the freedom our parents enjoyed. I wish we could do like do like George Washington said and every two hundred years, dissolve and recreate the government. But even mentioning that is considered terrorism. What can anyone do? What has become of freedom? What has become of our country?
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moocha
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

srlinuxx wrote:
geeezusss, there is too much politics everywhere.


OK, I'll bite. No, there's not. There's too little of it. Which is why we get the results we do get.
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AgentMascan
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, there are some individuals that let their strong opinions dominate their tone. Most of us have strong opinions; some of us choose to try and exercise decent behavior, and some just ignore the option altogether.

It's a real pain when you choke on your pride and apologize or admit you were wrong about something only to have someone shove it down your throat on their next post.
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stonent
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feliperal wrote:
blaksaga wrote:
Yes, way too much politics.

I come here when I'm bored to be amused...so I usually skip over Erik's overly biased political threads.

I miss the good old threads like "pubic hair" and such.


Yeah, I was waiting for the , "How big is your cock?" thread that he would discuss next.

hehehe....Just kidding :twisted:


Funny, I wondered the same thing. :lol:
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abzs2k
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DPL/DPR poll was quite funny.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can never get enough politics in forums, that is the nature of politics, it has to be debated by the proleteriat for it to work
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