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creaker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Need advice on AM2 CPU Reply with quote

Hi!
Recently I repaired Gigabyte mobo (GA-M52L-S3) and now I have to build a server using it.
I'm planning to use it as Samba server, print server and, possibly, as a box for Transmission client.
The thing is I have two suitable CPU, Phenom X4 9750 (HD9750WCJ4BGH) and Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (ADX6000IAA6CZ).
So, I'm not so familiar with AMD CPU's and I need advice on which one is better for such a box?
Athlon has a higher frequency rate, but has two cores only, and higher power consumption (125W).
On other hand, Phenom is 4 cored and has 95W TDP. Looks better than Athlon, but I heard that the first Phenom was horrible chip.
Though, I've tested them both for a day (with liveCD) and didn't notice any trouble.
As well, I'd like to know, if I will use Phenon and, in future, I will decide to replace it latter, can I simply replace it with Athlon (in terms of march/mtune compatibility)?

Thanks.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with the phenom, less power usage and 4 cores.

I'm not sure there is a lot of difference between the 'march' for athlon x2's and the phenom's.
As far as march goes if you set it to k8 then either would work, and for your purposes
I doubt you'll notice any problems with performance.

I think the higher freq will be offset with more (onboard) memory and the extra cores on the phenom.

Bottom line, either one will work for what you want to use it for.
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Cyker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's going to be a server, go for the Phenom - More cores is better for server work!
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creaker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK guys, thanks for replies.
Seems I have to go with Phenom. If so, is "amdfam10" march/mtune suitable for this CPU? I found it's OK for Phenom II, but not sure it will be fine for Phenom as well.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
OK guys, thanks for replies.
Seems I have to go with Phenom. If so, is "amdfam10" march/mtune suitable for this CPU? I found it's OK for Phenom II, but not sure it will be fine for Phenom as well.


Not sure, but native should tell you.
You could run sysrescuecd on the box once you have it put together and do
gcc -march=native -E -v - </dev/null 2>&1 | sed -n 's/.* -v - //p'
to see what it would select.

Edit to add: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-810508-start-0.html
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Gentoo and all the compiling, I believe more cores equals better performance. Over the years, I've used 2,4,6, and now 8 core amd cpus, and any time I'm emerging all my cores @world (or anything else) all my cores are pegged at 99% usage nearly the entire time. Apparently, portage is very well-threaded, and takes real world advantage of all the cores your cpu has. Amd bulldozer, piledriver, and even steamroller have their problems with single thread, but they are great in the multi-threaded situations, benchmarking right up close to a high-end i7.

Since gcc added support for it, I've always set march=native in make.conf. I've also recently started using the gentoo-sources "experimental" USE flag, as besides other nice stuff, it gives you the gcc options patch for tuning your kernel for your cpu, either with the cpu type name, or selecting "native," which sets a few more options than the actual name (for example instead of enabling piledriver, or athlon, etc., enable native in your kernel config).
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the screwed up phenom chips end in 00 not 50.....
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creaker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Anon-E-moose
your command output has -march=amdfam10 option included.
If I'll set march=amdfam10, will not some of the other options are disabled?
May be set it to native is better as wrc1944 suggests?


@666threesixes666
It's OK.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify:
When you select the Processor type and features option "Native optimizations autodetected by gcc" in the "make xconfig" window,
the help pane underneath shows:

Quote:
GCC 4.2 and above support -march=native, which automatically detects
the optimum settings to use based on your processor. -march=native
also detects and applies additional settings beyond -march specific
to your CPU, (eg. -msse4). Unless you have a specific reason not to
(e.g. distcc cross-compiling), you should probably be using
-march=native rather than anything listed below.

Whereas selecting as an example "Piledriver" shows:
Quote:
AMD Piledriver (MPILEDRIVER)

CONFIG_MPILEDRIVER:

Select this for AMD Piledriver processors.

Enables -march=bdver2

Symbol: MPILEDRIVER [=n]
Type : boolean
Prompt: AMD Piledriver
Location:
-> Processor type and features
-> Processor family (<choice> [=y])
Defined at arch/x86/Kconfig.cpu:193
Depends on: <choice>


I confirmed the gcc kernel optimizations really are different a while back by running
Code:
 gcc -c -Q -march=native --help=target

which reports this for my amd FX 8320 "Piledriver":
Quote:
The following options are target specific:
-m128bit-long-double [disabled]
-m16 [disabled]
-m32 [disabled]
-m3dnow [disabled]
-m3dnowa [disabled]
-m64 [enabled]
-m80387 [enabled]
-m8bit-idiv [disabled]
-m96bit-long-double [enabled]
-mabi= sysv
-mabm [enabled]
-maccumulate-outgoing-args [disabled]
-maddress-mode= short
-madx [disabled]
-maes [enabled]
-malign-double [disabled]
-malign-functions= 0
-malign-jumps= 0
-malign-loops= 0
-malign-stringops [enabled]
-mandroid [disabled]
-march= bdver2
-masm= att
-mavx [enabled]
-mavx2 [disabled]
-mavx256-split-unaligned-load [disabled]
-mavx256-split-unaligned-store [disabled]
-mavx512cd [disabled]
-mavx512er [disabled]
-mavx512f [disabled]
-mavx512pf [disabled]
-mbionic [disabled]
-mbmi [enabled]
-mbmi2 [disabled]
-mbranch-cost= 0
-mcld [disabled]
-mcmodel= 32
-mcpu=
-mcrc32 [disabled]
-mcx16 [enabled]
-mdispatch-scheduler [disabled]
-mdump-tune-features [disabled]
-mf16c [enabled]
-mfancy-math-387 [enabled]
-mfentry [enabled]
-mfma [enabled]
-mfma4 [enabled]
-mforce-drap [disabled]
-mfp-ret-in-387 [enabled]
-mfpmath= 387
-mfsgsbase [disabled]
-mfused-madd
-mfxsr [enabled]
-mglibc [enabled]
-mhard-float [enabled]
-mhle [disabled]
-mieee-fp [enabled]
-mincoming-stack-boundary= 0
-minline-all-stringops [disabled]
-minline-stringops-dynamically [disabled]
-mintel-syntax
-mlarge-data-threshold= 0x10000
-mlong-double-128 [disabled]
-mlong-double-64 [disabled]
-mlong-double-80 [enabled]
-mlwp [enabled]
-mlzcnt [enabled]
-mmemcpy-strategy=
-mmemset-strategy=
-mmmx [enabled]
-mmovbe [disabled]
-mms-bitfields [disabled]
-mno-align-stringops [disabled]
-mno-default [disabled]
-mno-fancy-math-387 [disabled]
-mno-push-args [disabled]
-mno-red-zone [disabled]
-mno-sse4 [disabled]
-momit-leaf-frame-pointer [disabled]
-mpc32 [disabled]
-mpc64 [disabled]
-mpc80 [disabled]
-mpclmul [enabled]
-mpopcnt [enabled]
-mprefer-avx128 [disabled]
-mpreferred-stack-boundary= 0
-mprefetchwt1 [disabled]
-mprfchw [enabled]
-mpush-args [enabled]
-mrdrnd [disabled]
-mrdseed [disabled]
-mrecip [disabled]
-mrecip=
-mred-zone [enabled]
-mregparm= 0
-mrtd [disabled]
-mrtm [disabled]
-msahf [enabled]
-msha [disabled]
-msoft-float [disabled]
-msse [enabled]
-msse2 [enabled]
-msse2avx [disabled]
-msse3 [enabled]
-msse4 [enabled]
-msse4.1 [enabled]
-msse4.2 [enabled]
-msse4a [enabled]
-msse5
-msseregparm [disabled]
-mssse3 [enabled]
-mstack-arg-probe [disabled]
-mstack-protector-guard= tls
-mstackrealign [enabled]
-mstringop-strategy= [default]
-mtbm [enabled]
-mtls-dialect= gnu
-mtls-direct-seg-refs [enabled]
-mtune-ctrl=
-mtune= bdver2
-muclibc [disabled]
-mveclibabi= [default]
-mvect8-ret-in-mem [disabled]
-mvzeroupper [disabled]
-mx32 [disabled]
-mxop [enabled]
-mxsave [enabled]
-mxsaveopt [disabled]


Selecting the Piledriver option reports some important options are disabled. However, each cpu type is different, so run the commands for =native AND ="your cpu type", and compare the two to see what (if anything) is enabled or disabled, and then decide which to use based on what you really need.
Quote:

wrc@gentoo-amd64 ~ $ gcc -c -Q -march=bdver2 --help=target
The following options are target specific:
-m128bit-long-double [disabled]
-m16 [disabled]
-m32 [disabled]
-m3dnow [disabled]
-m3dnowa [disabled]
-m64 [enabled]
-m80387 [enabled]
-m8bit-idiv [disabled]
-m96bit-long-double [enabled]
-mabi= sysv
-mabm [disabled]
-maccumulate-outgoing-args [disabled]
-maddress-mode= short
-madx [disabled]
-maes [disabled]
-malign-double [disabled]
-malign-functions= 0
-malign-jumps= 0
-malign-loops= 0
-malign-stringops [enabled]
-mandroid [disabled]
-march= bdver2
-masm= att
-mavx [disabled]
-mavx2 [disabled]
-mavx256-split-unaligned-load [disabled]
-mavx256-split-unaligned-store [disabled]
-mavx512cd [disabled]
-mavx512er [disabled]
-mavx512f [disabled]
-mavx512pf [disabled]
-mbionic [disabled]
-mbmi [disabled]
-mbmi2 [disabled]
-mbranch-cost= 0
-mcld [disabled]
-mcmodel= 32
-mcpu=
-mcrc32 [disabled]
-mcx16 [disabled]
-mdispatch-scheduler [disabled]
-mdump-tune-features [disabled]
-mf16c [disabled]
-mfancy-math-387 [enabled]
-mfentry [enabled]
-mfma [disabled]
-mfma4 [disabled]
-mforce-drap [disabled]
-mfp-ret-in-387 [enabled]
-mfpmath= 387
-mfsgsbase [disabled]
-mfused-madd
-mfxsr [disabled]
-mglibc [enabled]
-mhard-float [enabled]
-mhle [disabled]
-mieee-fp [enabled]
-mincoming-stack-boundary= 0
-minline-all-stringops [disabled]
-minline-stringops-dynamically [disabled]
-mintel-syntax
-mlarge-data-threshold= 0x10000
-mlong-double-128 [disabled]
-mlong-double-64 [disabled]
-mlong-double-80 [enabled]
-mlwp [disabled]
-mlzcnt [disabled]
-mmemcpy-strategy=
-mmemset-strategy=
-mmmx [disabled]
-mmovbe [disabled]
-mms-bitfields [disabled]
-mno-align-stringops [disabled]
-mno-default [disabled]
-mno-fancy-math-387 [disabled]
-mno-push-args [disabled]
-mno-red-zone [disabled]
-mno-sse4 [enabled]
-momit-leaf-frame-pointer [disabled]
-mpc32 [disabled]
-mpc64 [disabled]
-mpc80 [disabled]
-mpclmul [disabled]
-mpopcnt [disabled]
-mprefer-avx128 [disabled]
-mpreferred-stack-boundary= 0
-mprefetchwt1 [disabled]
-mprfchw [disabled]
-mpush-args [enabled]
-mrdrnd [disabled]
-mrdseed [disabled]
-mrecip [disabled]
-mrecip=
-mred-zone [enabled]
-mregparm= 0
-mrtd [disabled]
-mrtm [disabled]
-msahf [disabled]
-msha [disabled]
-msoft-float [disabled]
-msse [disabled]
-msse2 [disabled]
-msse2avx [disabled]
-msse3 [disabled]
-msse4 [disabled]
-msse4.1 [disabled]
-msse4.2 [disabled]
-msse4a [disabled]
-msse5
-msseregparm [disabled]
-mssse3 [disabled]
-mstack-arg-probe [disabled]
-mstack-protector-guard= tls
-mstackrealign [enabled]
-mstringop-strategy= [default]
-mtbm [disabled]
-mtls-dialect= gnu
-mtls-direct-seg-refs [enabled]
-mtune-ctrl=
-mtune=
-muclibc [disabled]
-mveclibabi= [default]
-mvect8-ret-in-mem [disabled]
-mvzeroupper [disabled]
-mx32 [disabled]
-mxop [disabled]
-mxsave [disabled]
-mxsaveopt [disabled]
wrc@gentoo-amd64 ~ $

_________________
Main box- Gigabyte GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ rev.-4.0
Amd FX 8320, 3.5 GHz, 16GB GSkill DDR3 1866mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD 6570 2GB DDR3
Gentoo ~x86, ~amd64, glibc-2.20-r1, gcc-4.9.2 kernel-3.19.0-gentoo (USE=experimental "native")
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