Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
How to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3330

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: How to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic Reply with quote

Quote:
"How to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic" - that's the title of a blog post that's being widely shared as the death toll in Gaza rises.

The blog begins like this: "If you've spent any time discussing or reading about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I guarantee you've heard some variation of this statement: OMG, Jews think any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic!"

It includes 19 "tips" for anyone who wants to criticise Israel - mainly advice on what to avoid. For example: "Don't say 'the Jews' when you mean Israel," or "Don't say: 'I can't be anti-Semitic, I have Jewish friends!'" It warns against stereotypes, and "expansive language" - such as referring to Israelis as "bloodthirsty". The post also includes detailed discussion of the meaning of the word "Zionist" and much more.

It's been shared particularly widely in the past day or so, with many referring to Gaza and Israel. It's had more than 8,000 "notes" on Tumblr, and has been shared tens of thousands of times on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and elsewhere. But - though there's no date stamp on the blog - it's clear (from the date of some of the shares) that it was written well over a year ago. In short - as is quite common on social media - it's looped round and made a comeback.

The top countries sharing the blog on Twitter appear to be the US, the UK and Sweden. "100% required reading," was one comment. "So important right now," was another. Interestingly, it's not made much of an impact on social media in Israel. One of the few commenting there wrote: "If you're gonna be a liberal douche bag, here's 'How to criticize Israel Without Being Anti-Semitic."

There is no name on the Tumblr, and the author has - as yet - not responded to our request for an interview. From other posts on the blog, it's clear the blogger is an American convert to Judaism.

The blog also includes a counterpoint post, "How to Support Israel Without Being Racist", with a similar list of points to avoid. "Don't call Palestinians 'animals' or 'savages'," and "Don't say 'Arab' when you mean Palestinian," for example. It concludes: "If you expect Palestinians and their allies not to be anti-Semitic, you'd better extend the same courtesy and not be racist."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-28444854
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4426
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you criticize Israel by pointing out the biggest anti-Semite is Israel w.r.t. what they are doing to the Palestinians, who themselves are Semites
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or point out what George Soros has been doing during WW2
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zixnub
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Brasschaat, Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, when comparing Hamas and Israel, it's important not to have a double moral. One is a widely accepted as being a terror organisation, and so should the other one.
_________________
https://github.com/Zubnix/wayland-java-bindings
https://github.com/Zubnix/westmalle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koala Kid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
Quote:
"Don't say: 'I can't be anti-Semitic, I have Jewish friends!'"


Butts McCokey wrote:
You forgot the fact that I'm the jew hating cokehabit with a jewish girlfriend

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7588380.html#7588380


Last edited by Koala Kid on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koala Kid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
Also, when comparing Hamas and Israel, it's important not to have a double moral. One is a widely accepted as being a terror organisation, and so should the other one.


Also it's very important not to fall into generalisation: while belgians are renown sick perverts and suppliers of child porn, it can't be said about the rest europeans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wildhorse
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Estados Unidos De América

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koala Kid wrote:
Also it's very important not to fall into generalisation: while belgians are renown sick perverts and suppliers of child porn, it can't be said about the rest europeans.
Finally someone who understands why the EU government is located in Belgium. Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3330

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic Reply with quote

Koala Kid wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
Quote:
"Don't say: 'I can't be anti-Semitic, I have Jewish friends!'"


Butts McCokey wrote:
You forgot the fact that I'm the jew hating cokehabit with a jewish girlfriend

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7588380.html#7588380
Yeah because loving a jew and saing I have spoken to one down the pub are the same thing :roll:

You are really grasping for straws on these jewish questions... Are you ok?
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koala Kid
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, completely. thanks for asking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
you criticize Israel by pointing out the biggest anti-Semite is Israel w.r.t. what they are doing to the Palestinians, who themselves are Semites


That would be #18 on the list. :lol:

The List wrote:
18 . Don’t say that since Palestinians are Semites, Jews/Israelis are anti-Semitic, too.

_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 658
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?


Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.
_________________
Being a libertarian is like being the only sober person in the car, and no one will let you drive.

There is no god but Bach, Beethoven is the messenger of Bach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?


Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.

To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 658
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?


Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.

To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/


So there's an anti-Jewish bias in the world, why is this not a shock?
_________________
Being a libertarian is like being the only sober person in the car, and no one will let you drive.

There is no god but Bach, Beethoven is the messenger of Bach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?


Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.

To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/


This doesn't change my opinion at all. I believe both the Palestinians and the Israelis have a right to be in the area and while it seems so impossible today, I hope that some day they do find a solution that works for both parties. I also hope that even if they continue to hate each other's guts for the rest of eternity, that at least they can maintain relatively peaceful relations of some agreement is ever finally made. Israel has done shitty terrible things in the conflict. Palestine has done shitty horrible things in the conflict. Despite the shitty things they've done, Israel has made more attempts to extend the olive branch than Palestine has. (or really any of the other nations in the region, save Egypt who was just capitulating for the return of the Sinai lands they foolishly lost).

Hamas are shitty assholes that intentionally stir the pot and are constantly prodding at Israelis to provoke them into reacting. Hamas actively works to break down any attempt at a peaceful situation by either directly launching terrorist attacks, or simply turning a blind eye and allowing them to occur. The Fatah, while they had their own issues, were less extreme and seemed to fuel the extremist fire at a much lesser rate. The Palestinians should hate Hamas for their ongoing misery as much as they hate Israel for their militaristic and sometimes brutal rule of the disputed territories. Honestly, if I were in Palestinian shoes, I wouldn't be all that happy with Arafat for his 2000 refusal from Israel to hand over most of the disputed territories in exchange for peace.

While there is plenty of ethnic-hatred inside Israel towards Palestinians, the Arabs, and on a larger scale, Muslims in general and Israel has it's own faction of hard-line assholes that seem intent on never backing down on the disputed Palestinian territories, there are also plenty there who would capitulate for peace and it's an ongoing internal debate in Israel that frequently sways elections. The hatred and extremism about the situation in Israel is not nearly as overtly institutionalized like it is in Palestine. The indoctrination of teaching their children from infancy that Israelis are devils who need to be wiped off the face of the earth, and that they should be proud to die as martyrs in the cause... well, that's a bit extreme and really isn't helping anything now is it? Firing a rocket into a civilian population when a formal cease-fire has been called and then rushing to jump on television to show the damage of the retribution strike is just straight up assholery. Fuck Hamas. They are shit-bags any way you cut it.
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1575
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
you criticize Israel by pointing out the biggest anti-Semite is Israel w.r.t. what they are doing to the Palestinians, who themselves are Semites

Actually, they're not. Regardless of what that blog says, Palestinians are mostly Arabs.

The Canaanites were Semites, but they haven't existed for about two millennia, and measuring to what extent any so-called "Gazan" individual is one would be similar to measuring how much Neanderthal DNA they have. The 2nd Islamic Caliphate "Arabized" the Levant in the 7th Century (Nabatean and Ghassanids mostly, moving them into the previously populated areas, which are basically the coast and Jordan river valley, half of which are comprised by what we now refer to as "Gaza" and the "West Bank"). This is both well-documented and attested by archaeology (most notably a complete abandonment of Aramaic and Hebrew in favor of Arabic in official documents).

The so called "Palestinians" in the West Bank are pretty much 100% Arab, and were literally put there by Jordan, after all the non-Jews living there had evacuated following the assignment of that land to the State of Israel, as a means of occupying the land and in hopes of gaining possession of it.

You're not a Semite by virtue of living in the Levant any more than you're an "Indian" by virtue of living in the Americas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:

The so called "Palestinians" in the West Bank are pretty much 100% Arab, and were literally put there by Jordan, after all the non-Jews living there had evacuated following the assignment of that land to the State of Israel, as a means of occupying the land and in hopes of gaining possession of it.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself. They are all the same, there is no such thing as 100% arab distinguished from 100% jewish:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml
As for differentiated in historical documents, you mean the same documents that tell that God made Universe in 7 days, and Jadda Jadda. Written by men. Not scientific enough.

And do you really think the difference between jews and arabs is like difference between irish and dakota? :lol: :lol: :lol:
The difference between jews and arabs is more like difference between dakota and navajo. Just look at them.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zixnub
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Brasschaat, Belgium

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koala Kid wrote:
zixnub wrote:
Also, when comparing Hamas and Israel, it's important not to have a double moral. One is a widely accepted as being a terror organisation, and so should the other one.


Also it's very important not to fall into generalisation: while belgians are renown sick perverts and suppliers of child porn, it can't be said about the rest europeans.


I disagree. I think shelling pregnant women and children who just happen to live in Gaza is totally working. It will stop the others from firing more fireworks. In the end history has proven that punishment expeditions are an effective way to stop any guerrilla force. Just look at the effect of the previous large Gaza bombings.

But I'm glad we agree that both are terror organisations.
_________________
https://github.com/Zubnix/wayland-java-bindings
https://github.com/Zubnix/westmalle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3330

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?


Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.

To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/


So there's an anti-Jewish bias in the world, why is this not a shock?
how many moderate jews do you know that support Israel...?
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3330

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?
Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.
To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/
Hamas are shitty assholes that intentionally stir the pot and are constantly prodding at Israelis to provoke them into reacting.
I agree completely. Until Hamas is gone I can't 100% support Palestine. That doesn't stop me believing that Israel is living on Palestine's land. And that is before you even get to the settlements and abuse.
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
ratmonkey wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Muso wrote:
Prenj wrote:
How about telling them to go fuck themselves as much as any other nation on the planet? why are they special monkeys?
Any other country getting rockets fired on it daily from a neighboring land wouldn't get half the shit Israel does if it decided to put a stop to it.

So yes, treat them exactly as you would any other country and stop singling them out for defending their own people.
To counter your hollywood inspired rhetoric, here is food for thought:
http://www.infowars.com/america-is-the-only-country-with-a-favorable-view-of-israel/
Hamas are shitty assholes that intentionally stir the pot and are constantly prodding at Israelis to provoke them into reacting.
I agree completely. Until Hamas is gone I can't 100% support Palestine. That doesn't stop me believing that Israel is living on Palestine's land. And that is before you even get to the settlements and abuse.

Hamas was born as a reaction to the occupation, the media own by jewish interests spins it naturally as terrorists. We all know the wordplay and the point of view when you say "terrorist". To british, american colonies were terrorists. They also played dirty.
I mean can we skip the labeling and black&white reasoning, and look at the facts:

- Some tribes in middle east are having a go at another, and have been for ages. Genetically the same people, and both clearly there before the events described in the works of fiction called "Old Testament" or "Quran". Regarding to those two works (which is shoddy literature at that), it doesn't matter which one is right, because neither is. It just serve as proof that they are indeed the same people, since their approach to the matter is identical. The same pattern of behaviour. You take a work of fiction, lose all common sense, regard it as real, and proceed to act it out. When it comes to people who do that with other works of fiction, we put them in the loony bin, but for no reason whatsoever we are supposed to take exception to this shit in 2014? Color me unimpressed.

- The endless argument of who was first, and the issue of race... pro-israel crowd usually say "we are not same people, there are jews with white skin and blue eyes". Yes there are. But now we are mixing up the religion and identity with ethnicity. Those jews (or muslims for that matter) that clearly have north-euroasian ancestry have NOT been there first. So that claim is invalid, it would be like me marrying an apache girl, declare myself an apache warrior, and proceed to shoot random people in Texas (or was it New Mexico) because "my people were there first". I would be tossed in loony bin or on death row. Yet we have to take claims like that seriously. If I managed to bribe/brainwash the local judge to let me free based on my argument, an outside observer would think that the judge is nuts.

So lets cut the bullshit about the race, "promised land" (yeah right, I was promised jetpacks but you don't see me shooting people). You have an army bombing civilians, and a paramilitary bombing civilians. They are all the same. You should support neither. Yet USA sends 3bn dollar/year in aid + arms + nukes to one side. Why?

Because either a) the white europeans either genocidal people themselves (which they are, along many other genocidal monkeys on planet) and sort of dig it, or b) they are brainwashed idiots who believe in magic underwear and all that bullshit, and as such cannot cope with critical thinking. I guess it's a combination of both.

Ergo, we are all monkeys, including Israel and Palestine. Treat them as such, and for fucks sake, don't give them weapons.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1575
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some monkeys want to make other monkeys live under the rule of their clerics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Some monkeys want to make other monkeys live under the rule of their clerics.
You mean PR industry? Obummer? Don't pretend it's a one-sided and clear cut situation, unless of course you are getting payed to spread neocon fud, if that is the case, go ahead mate.

There has been a monkey flock trying to dominate another monkey flock ever since there was monkeys. Becoming a consumer zombie vs religious zombie makes no difference whatsoever. You are still being milked as cattle, the only thing that you are playing on is that being well educated white east coast male, you hope to gain some altitude and not get milked as much. That's fine, everybody is trying their best, but please understand that 7th grade rhetorics are boring as fuck.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1575
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Some monkeys want to make other monkeys live under the rule of their clerics.
You mean PR industry? Obummer? Don't pretend it's a one-sided and clear cut situation, unless of course you are getting payed to spread neocon fud, if that is the case, go ahead mate.

There has been a monkey flock trying to dominate another monkey flock ever since there was monkeys. Becoming a consumer zombie vs religious zombie makes no difference whatsoever. You are still being milked as cattle, the only thing that you are playing on is that being well educated white east coast male, you hope to gain some altitude and not get milked as much. That's fine, everybody is trying their best, but please understand that 7th grade rhetorics are boring as fuck.

Do you seriously equate being seduced by a materialistic lifestyle with being forcibly subjected to religious fundamentalism? It seems to me they are orders of magnitude different in terms of the severity of the imposition.

I think it's time you faced facts. Islam is 500 years behind the rest of the world. Are they alone in behind backward? No. The Catholics, for example, are 50 years behind. But don't play black-and-white thinker and act like being 50 years behind is the same as acting like we're still in Medieval times. Since those days, we've come to acknowledge a little something we call "individual rights".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum