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init3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Power management (udev USE) in XFce requires systemd??? Reply with quote

I don't want to use systemd. For a time ago I've successfully migrated to sys-fs/eudev and very please with it.

But. During today's system update I've find a block, portage wanted to install systemd.
Analyse showed, that invoked by udev USE (in packages xfce-base/xfce4-session and xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin) sys-power/upower depends directly on >=sys-apps/systemd-200 (not on virtual).

Does it mean, that systemd dependency is going from Gnome3 to Xfce or it is a bug and should be reported on bugs.gentoo.org?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: ><)))°€ Reply with quote

Teegrins, init3!


See UPower 0.99.0 was released to ~arch as of 2014-06-01 and Am I being forced to use systemd now? for a possible workaround.

I can't say for certain that this is what you're indeed facing, but I think it's a good'ish guess. ^^


I hope this helps!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

setting USE="-udev" in the XFCE4 packages is an other working workaround
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for everyone!

XavierMiller wrote:
setting USE="-udev" in the XFCE4 packages is an other working workaround

This brokes default DE's power management.

There is a better workaround, just:
Code:
emerge -1 sys-power/upower-pm-utils


Code:
eix sys-power/upower-pm-utils
[I] sys-power/upower-pm-utils

     Homepage:            http://upower.freedesktop.org/
     Description:         The upstream upower 0.9 git branch for use with sys-power/pm-utils


I was confised because portage neither auto-fited it nor provide any pointer on this solution.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XavierMiller wrote:
setting USE="-udev" in the XFCE4 packages is an other working workaround

Excuse me.
For my case (not a laptop, ordinar PC) disabling udev USE for xfce-base/xfce4-session and xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin (but not for all XFce4 packages) is not a workaround, but a solution (because in this case I don't need hibernation).
So:
Code:
/etc/portage/package.use:
xfce-base/xfce4-session -udev
xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin -udev

and emerge -N world fixes issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a small note, if you use upower-0.99 or upower-pm-util you don't need systemd at all. On my system I am using xfce with udev flag set and run perfectly fine with upower-pm-util (did have upower-0.99 installed earlier, to know on that too). Just a note, using upower-0.9.23 does need systemd, the upower-pm-utils is designed for those running without systemd, while taking care of most (if not all dependencys of upower). If you switch to upower-pm-utils, you will need to do
emerge -C upower && emerge -1 upower-pm-utils
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ct85711 wrote:
emerge -C upower && emerge -1 upower-pm-utils


this command will install sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 too?
i find systemd in my computer, after running this!
i use open-rc, not systemd, is it all ok?
or, am i missing something important?

Code:
# emerge -s upower
Searching...   
[ Results for search key : upower ]
[ Applications found : 3 ]

*  sys-power/cpupower
      Latest version available: 3.13
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 75,377 kB
      Homepage:      http://www.kernel.org/
      Description:   Shows and sets processor power related values
      License:       GPL-2

*  sys-power/upower [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 0.99.0-r1
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 419 kB
      Homepage:      http://upower.freedesktop.org/
      Description:   D-Bus abstraction for enumerating power devices and querying history and statistics
      License:       GPL-2

*  sys-power/upower-pm-utils
      Latest version available: 0.9.23
      Latest version installed: 0.9.23
      Size of files: 415 kB
      Homepage:      http://upower.freedesktop.org/
      Description:   The upstream upower 0.9 git branch for use with sys-power/pm-utils
      License:       GPL-2


Code:
# emerge -s systemd
Searching...   
[ Results for search key : systemd ]
[ Applications found : 6 ]

*  kde-misc/kcmsystemd [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 0.6.1
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 49 kB
      Homepage:      https://github.com/rthomsen/kcmsystemd
      Description:   KDE control module for systemd
      License:       GPL-3

*  sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration
      Latest version available: 4
      Latest version installed: 4
      Size of files: 51 kB
      Homepage:      https://bitbucket.org/mgorny/gentoo-systemd-integration
      Description:   systemd integration files for Gentoo
      License:       BSD

*  sys-apps/systemd
      Latest version available: 212-r5
      Latest version installed: 212-r5
      Size of files: 2,658 kB
      Homepage:      http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
      Description:   System and service manager for Linux
      License:       GPL-2 LGPL-2.1 MIT public-domain

*  sys-apps/systemd-sysv-utils [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 212
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 2,658 kB
      Homepage:      http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
      Description:   sysvinit compatibility symlinks and manpages
      License:       GPL-2

*  sys-apps/systemd-ui [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 9999
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 0 kB
      Homepage:      http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
      Description:   System and service manager for Linux
      License:       GPL-2

*  sys-devel/systemd-m4 [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 9999
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 0 kB
      Homepage:      https://bitbucket.org/mgorny/systemd-m4/
      Description:   autoconf macros for packages using systemd
      License:       BSD


Last edited by kenmux on Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

upower-pm-utils does not pull in systemd it's self, so no it shouldn't pull in systemd. Though since you already have systemd installed, you can easily just use upower and not worry about it. open-rc and systemd can be installed together without a problem, that's more of which system you use to run any services you have on your system. In general, it's more of if you use udev or systemd. As systemd has it's own udev copy; so you can't have both udev and systemd installed. By default, virtual/udev will pick udev first, even though udev, systemd, or eudev (any one of them) will satisfy virtual/udev as a whole.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I did USE="-udev" for XFCE packages, and I can restart/shut down without upower (and without consolekit / policykit). If you emerge upower-pm-utils, you won't be have systemd pulled up (but well consolekit and policykit).
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XavierMiller wrote:
I did USE="-udev" for XFCE packages, and I can restart/shut down without upower (and without consolekit / policykit). If you emerge upower-pm-utils, you won't be have systemd pulled up (but well consolekit and policykit).

As I remember, disabling udev USE for Thunar should switch off it's dynamic mount back-end.
I'm not shure that it (disabling udev USE for ALL XFce4 packages) is a good idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
this command will install sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 too?
i find systemd in my computer, after running this!
i use open-rc, not systemd, is it all ok?
or, am i missing something important?

Excuse me, but, code, quoted by you in this post seems to be useless.

What about use option --pretend (or --ask) and prior to update process read the list of packages to be merged?

As answer on a question who and how requires systemd I find enough the output of:
Code:
equery d sys-apps/systemd

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for that, i'm just a newbie, and do not know how to get which package(s) pulled systemd...
the code of equery d sys-apps/systemd showed as follows:
Code:
# equery d sys-apps/systemd
 * These packages depend on sys-apps/systemd:
gnome-base/gvfs-1.18.3 (systemd ? sys-apps/systemd:0)
sys-apps/dbus-1.6.18-r1 (systemd ? sys-apps/systemd)
sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4 (>=sys-apps/systemd-207)
sys-auth/pambase-20120417-r3 (systemd ? >=sys-apps/systemd-44-r1[pam])
sys-auth/polkit-0.112-r1 (systemd ? sys-apps/systemd)
sys-fs/udisks-2.1.3 (systemd ? sys-apps/systemd)
virtual/libgudev-208 (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs(-)?])
                     (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs(-)?])
                     (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs(-)?])
virtual/service-manager-0 (kernel_linux ? sys-apps/systemd)
virtual/udev-208-r1 (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev,kmod])
                    (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev,kmod])
                    (>=sys-apps/systemd-208:0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev,kmod])

my UES flag is:
Code:
USE="bindist mmx mmxext sse sse2 ssse3 3dnow 3dnowext -gnome -kde -qt4 -minimal dvd alsa cdr X opengl gtk gtk2 gtk3 xvmc udev -hal cjk unicode consolekit dbus pam policykit udisks upower jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar truetype type1 cleartype corefonts png mng gif fbcondecor mp3 flac wavpack ffmpeg mp4 a52 aac dts live quicktime real theora vorbis x264 xv xvid win32codecs autostart cairo enchant pango"

then, how to get rid of systemd? i just have no sense about it!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
ct85711 wrote:
emerge -C upower && emerge -1 upower-pm-utils


this command will install sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 too?
i find systemd in my computer, after running this!

Had you checked your system on systemd state prior to execute this command?

To my experience,
Code:
emerge -1 upower-pm-utils
is enough, upower will be unmerged automatically.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
my UES flag is:
Code:
USE="bindist mmx mmxext sse sse2 ssse3 3dnow 3dnowext -gnome -kde -qt4 -minimal dvd alsa cdr X opengl gtk gtk2 gtk3 xvmc udev -hal cjk unicode consolekit dbus pam policykit udisks upower jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar truetype type1 cleartype corefonts png mng gif fbcondecor mp3 flac wavpack ffmpeg mp4 a52 aac dts live quicktime real theora vorbis x264 xv xvid win32codecs autostart cairo enchant pango"

then, how to get rid of systemd? i just have no sense about it!

hal USE was gone away long ago.
If you've cleaned your system from systemd dependencies after you've installed it, you should not forget to clean your system from, unused dependencies, i.e.
Code:
emerge --depclean


Also it may be reasonable to set -systemd USE in make.conf.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

init3 wrote:
If you've cleaned your system from systemd dependencies after you've installed it, you should not forget to clean your system from, unused dependencies, i.e.
Code:
emerge --depclean


Also it may be reasonable to set -systemd USE in make.conf.

well, i add -systemd to USE flag, and do emerge --depclean,
but systemd is still there!
Code:
emerge -pv --depclean systemd

Calculating dependencies... done!
  sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 pulled in by:
    sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-207
    virtual/libgudev-208 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0/2[abi_x86_64(-),gudev]
    virtual/libudev-208 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0/2[abi_x86_64(-)]
    virtual/udev-208-r2 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0

what should i do to get rid of systemd? anybody please give me a hand? i just cannot understand the code!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
well, i add -systemd to USE flag

Had you checked your system on needed changes after that (i.e. emerge -uDN world)?

kenmux wrote:
and do emerge --depclean,
but systemd is still there!
Code:
emerge -pv --depclean systemd

Calculating dependencies... done!
  sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 pulled in by:
    sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-207
    virtual/libgudev-208 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0/2[abi_x86_64(-),gudev]
    virtual/libudev-208 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0/2[abi_x86_64(-)]
    virtual/udev-208-r2 requires >=sys-apps/systemd-208:0

what should i do to get rid of systemd? anybody please give me a hand? i just cannot understand the code!

Linux system needs a dynamic back-end daemon installed.
And only one of then can be installed at same time.

So, the installation of systemd automatically means uninstallation of udev.
Thatiswhy, one installed, systemd willn't be uninstalled by dependency clean.

To remove it you should try something like
Code:
emerge -1 eudev


P.S. Also you should want to read emerge.log (qlop utility is very pretty alternative for direct logfile analyse).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, after emerge -C systemd & emerge -1 eudev , i got rid of systemd, with a lot of blocks!
when i tried emerge -Davu system, it stoped with a lot of blocks too, related with udev and systemd!
then i thought reboot may work, so i rebooted the machine...this is a nightmare, i swear!
then my computer completely broke down, no response for keyboard or mouse, just display the slim login screen...
i thought the problem related with udev, for the log complained "service udev start failed".
oh no!!! i could not enter repair mode or single user mode, for there is no bootable usb driver in hand...
could anybody tell me, how to recover it? many thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
well, after emerge -C systemd & emerge -1 eudev , i got rid of systemd, with a lot of blocks!

Where you've read about emerge -C systemd?
You don't understand what you are doing and can't expect result.

kenmux wrote:
when i tried emerge -Davu system, it stoped with a lot of blocks too, related with udev and systemd!
then i thought reboot may work, so i rebooted the machine...this is a nightmare, i swear!

Now (when you have NO REQUIRED dynamic backend installed) you should not reboot untill you'll return a one and handle ALL portage's messages.
But you've done it.

kenmux wrote:
then my computer completely broke down, no response for keyboard or mouse, just display the slim login screen...
i thought the problem related with udev, for the log complained "service udev start failed".

Unresolved blocks, unhandled portage's messages…

kenmux wrote:
oh no!!! i could not enter repair mode or single user mode, for there is no bootable usb driver in hand...
could anybody tell me, how to recover it? many thanks!

To have a such feature you mustn't hurry with getting rid of appeared systemd, but to prepare you system to a dangerous action.
For example by adding (don't forget to check) boot item with SRCD image.

Now you have the only way: find a boot media with SRCD, boot, mount partitions, chroot into you system, resolve blocks and handle portage's messages.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

init3 wrote:
Now you have the only way: find a boot media with SRCD, boot, mount partitions, chroot into you system, resolve blocks and handle portage's messages.

thanks very much for your reply! i'm trying now! but, i cannot recover it by emerge, for the confliction of udev and systemd.
i just cannot understand: the USE flag contains "udev -systemd", why systemd is still required to pull, which is conflicted with udev?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmux wrote:
i cannot recover it by emerge, for the confliction of udev and systemd.

virtual/udev?
The recovery with emerge is the only way.

If you can't resolve blocks yourself, show the output of emerge eudev (for example on a wgetpaste service).
And don't forget to read and process all portage's messages.

kenmux wrote:
i just cannot understand: the USE flag contains "udev -systemd", why systemd is still required to pull, which is conflicted with udev?

USE flags rules only conditional dependencies.
So, -systemd USE just switch off dependencies on systemd not everywhere, but only there, where it is possible.

P.S. For future: not to get such surprises it's very useful to read package list prior to execute real emerge.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

many thanks! init3!
my computer has recovered!
and i check package.use, and find this:
Code:
# required by virtual/libgudev-208
# required by sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23
# required by upower-pm-utils (argument)
=sys-apps/systemd-212-r5 gudev

that it is, the one pulled systemd!
i used to add option --autounmask-write without careful check, so came this problem...
look back the three days, i did nothing, but emerge, emerge, and emerge...so sad story...
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