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Budoka
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:23 am    Post subject: Am I being forced to use systemd now? Reply with quote

I have been following the systemd threads with some interest. I don't have any particular position on it either way BUT, it was my understanding that if I took it out of the USES it would be a non issue and I could continue using my system as it is. That no longer seems to be the case?

I attempted a world update and encountered the following error. Does this mean that systemd is a hard requirement now for Gentoo? I am not particularly interested in making any changes to my system unless it is meant to address security or stability issues.

Can I reolve this without using systemd?

Quote:
Total: 18 packages (8 upgrades, 9 new, 1 in new slot), Size of downloads: 143,131 kB
Conflict: 3 blocks (3 unsatisfied)

* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.

(sys-fs/udev-212-r1::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
>=sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,static-libs?] (>=sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_64(-),static-libs]) required by (virtual/libudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>=sys-fs/udev-208 required by (virtual/udev-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs?] (>=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev,introspection,static-libs]) required by (virtual/libgudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>=sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)


Quote:
# emerge --info
Portage 2.2.8-r1 (default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop, gcc-4.7.3, glibc-2.17, 3.10.7-gentoo x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-3.10.7-gentoo-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i7-2675QM_CPU_@_2.20GHz-with-gentoo-2.2
KiB Mem: 8092508 total, 742372 free
KiB Swap: 9437180 total, 9437100 free
Timestamp of tree: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 00:00:01 +0000
ld GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.23.2
app-shells/bash: 4.2_p45
dev-java/java-config: 2.2.0
dev-lang/python: 2.7.6, 3.3.3
dev-util/cmake: 2.8.12.2
dev-util/pkgconfig: 0.28
sys-apps/baselayout: 2.2
sys-apps/openrc: 0.12.4
sys-apps/sandbox: 2.6-r1
sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.69
sys-devel/automake: 1.12.6, 1.13.4
sys-devel/binutils: 2.23.2
sys-devel/gcc: 4.7.3-r1
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.7.3
sys-devel/libtool: 2.4.2
sys-devel/make: 3.82-r4
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 3.13 (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc: 2.17
Repositories: gentoo sublime-text
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="* -@EULA"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=native -pipe"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/config /usr/share/easy-rsa /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt /var/lib/hsqldb"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/dconf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -march=native -pipe"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--exclude gentoo-sources"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles merge-sync news parallel-fetch preserve-libs protect-owned sandbox sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv usersandbox usersync"
FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="rsync://mirrors.rit.edu/gentoo/ ftp://mirrors.rit.edu/gentoo/ http://mirrors.rit.edu/gentoo/"
LANG="en_US.utf8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
MAKEOPTS="-j4"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/var/lib/layman/sublime-text"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.jp.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="64bit X a52 aac acl acpi additions alsa amd64 anthy berkdb bindist bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo capi cdda cdr chrome chromium cjk clamav clamd clamdtop cli consolekit cpufreq_bench cracklib crypt cryptsetup cups cxx dbus dhcpcd dri dts dvd dvdr emboss encode examples exif fam firefox firefox-bookmarks flac fortran game game-engine games gd gdb gdbm gif gpm grub gtk gtk2 gtk3 hddtemp ibus iconv imap introspection ios ios-vout iostats ipod iproute2 iptables ipv6 john jpeg kde keymap kipi laptop lcms ldap libnotify librsync-bundled lm_sensors lock logrotate lua mad mmx mng modemmanager modules mp3 mp4 mpeg mplayer multilib mutt ncurses netlink networkmanager nls nmap nmap-update nptl nss offensive ogg opengl openmp openvpn pam pango pcre pdf pgp php png policykit powersave powertop ppds ppp qt qt-bundled qt-dbus qt-faststart qt-static qt3support qt4 qthelp rar readline rsa samba sdl session sip sipim skype smart smartcard spell sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg syslog tcpd test-programs thunar thunderbird tiff tor tor-hardening tordns truetype udev udisks ufw unicode upower usb virtualbox vlc vorbis webcam wext wifi win32 wxwidgets x264 xcb xfconf xml xv xvid zip zlib" ABI_X86="64" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump author" CAMERAS="ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ublox ubx" GRUB_PLATFORMS="emu gentoo_platforms_efi-32 gentoo_platforms_efi-64 pc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-console presenter-minimizer" LINGUAS="en en_US ja ja_JP" OFFICE_IMPLEMENTATION="libreoffice" PHP_TARGETS="php5-5" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_3" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby19 ruby20" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="intel" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, INSTALL_MASK, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, USE_PYTHON
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Hu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GNOME users are stuck with it. Most others are not. You did not provide the full package dependency tree, so we cannot see why you are scheduled to merge the packages which require systemd. Mask systemd and the immediate reverse dependencies for it, then try again.
/etc/portage/package.mask:
# Lennart
sys-apps/systemd
sys-power/upower
sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration

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Budoka
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
GNOME users are stuck with it. Most others are not. You did not provide the full package dependency tree, so we cannot see why you are scheduled to merge the packages which require systemd. Mask systemd and the immediate reverse dependencies for it, then try again.
/etc/portage/package.mask:
# Lennart
sys-apps/systemd
sys-power/upower
sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration



Hi. I am not sure what you mean by the full package dependency tree. Do you mean the full output from the world update? If so it is here. http://bpaste.net/show/334822/

I also don't have /etc/portage/package.mask. Can I just create it?

I am using KDE and XFCE.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

# Lennart

:D

Sorry, just couldn't resist.
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BT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're not using systemd, you need remove sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils.
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sp4rk3r
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

removing upower and replacing it with upower-pm-utils fixed it for my KDE box.
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Rüpel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

I wonder how on earth I was supposed to resolve this without the forums. :roll:

I see that upower now requires systemd, but what is the standard way of letting me as a user know, that there is this upower-pm-utils alternative? Did I miss that in the Gentoo Newsletter? Did I miss an eselect news item? What kind of gentoo dev to user communication channel am I missing?
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ssuominen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blogs.gentoo.org/news/2014/06/02/gentoo-monthly-newsletter-may-2014/#sys-powerupower_update

This thread is sort of duplicate of, https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992290-highlight-.html

Your options are:

1. Install upower-pm-utils to get old-school UPower 0.9.x series with sys-power/pm-utils support for hibernate/suspend, the downside of this option is that this is now unmaintained by upstream, see http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/log/?h=0.9 (notice how this used to be master, but isn't anymore)

2. Upgrade to upower-0.99.0, the downside of this option is that you might lose hibernate/suspend in some application you use, see http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/log/ (notice how this is now master)

The block is an good enforcer, now people need to stop and think and make an informed decision.
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h4jo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"removing upower and replacing it with upower-pm-utils fixed it for my KDE box."
Thanks for sharing - this worked for me as well :)
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Rüpel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssuominen wrote:
http://blogs.gentoo.org/news/2014/06/02/gentoo-monthly-newsletter-may-2014/#sys-powerupower_update


Ah, there we go. Should fire up emerge @world after finishing my morning reading list. :roll: [/list]
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luismw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification. However, I'd rather have learned about this in a news item, instead of having to search through the forums.
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ssuominen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

luismw wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. However, I'd rather have learned about this in a news item, instead of having to search through the forums.


I was planning in releasing one, but likely together with UPower 0.99.0 stabilization in ~3 weeks because the news item content is directly dependant on it (and on some porting effort in consumers)
I'd really rather avoid sending multiple news items for the issue

For now it's pretty straightforward, user emerges package, uses --tree (-t) flag, sees what is pulling sys-apps/systemd in, masks the offending package, alternatives are offered by Portage
It will become a lot more complex as time goes by and more packages get ported over to the new API and more conflicts arise
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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use upower and thus pull in the gapping security hole pollkit, I would not worry about having systemd installed...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
If you use upower and thus pull in the gapping security hole pollkit, I would not worry about having systemd installed...


I've long masked upower and udisks but I feel sorry for those who depend on devs
who are too incompetent to do a good job of letting them know about any possible choices.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 almost every time I found solution on forum. Support here is great!
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tholin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone clarify the implications of this? If I don't switch to upower-pm-utils and instead choose to install systemd what will happen? Will systemd be my default init system or will it just be installed but unused?
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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
I've long masked upower and udisks but I feel sorry for those who depend on devs
who are too incompetent to do a good job of letting them know about any possible choices.

I can understand if developers are not motivated very much to work against upstream: It is not a surprising news that upstream of the *kit crap will do anything to forcibly pull in systemd. It looks to me like an accident/oversight that there are still other possibilities (yet...).
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
I've long masked upower and udisks but I feel sorry for those who depend on devs
who are too incompetent to do a good job of letting them know about any possible choices.

I can understand if developers are not motivated very much to work against upstream: It is not a surprising news that upstream of the *kit crap will do anything to forcibly pull in systemd. It looks to me like an accident/oversight that there are still other possibilities (yet...).


The only thing I have to say about the devs is if they don't want to provide choice
then they should quit being devs on this distro and join one that doesn't offer choice
then they don't have to be motivated. And no this isn't pointed at any one dev, it's generic.

I'm not surprised about upstream upower, udisks, *kit, the world being absorbed into systemd.
It was obvious that that was the direction things were going quite a while back while a few
devs tried to convince many of us that we didn't know what we were talking about.
Looks like many of us had more of a clue than those devs on this point.

Anyway, glad there is a fix.

Note: I've pointed out before that when things like this happen, there needs to be a news article.
I personally didn't know that there was a monthly blog of what was going on, never seen it mentioned before.
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ssuominen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
The only thing I have to say about the devs is if they don't want to provide choice
then they should quit being devs on this distro and join one that doesn't offer choice
then they don't have to be motivated. And no this isn't pointed at any one dev, it's generic.


All of the work was done with OpenRC users in mind, to provide them a migration path from upower to upower-pm-utils OR upower-0.99.0. Nothing was forced to anyone. Nothing was taken away from OpenRC users. I don't know
of other distribution that offers total of ~5 different possible UPower configurations/versions. Configurations with, and without OpenRC. Configurations with, and without systemd. Others provide only one. Get a clue.

Did you perhaps reply to wrong thread? Because this looks all irrelevant here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Note: I've pointed out before that when things like this happen, there needs to be a news article.
I personally didn't know that there was a monthly blog of what was going on, never seen it mentioned before.

Well, users should know their way around gentoo.org, the forums, google and last but not least, their system.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
Note: I've pointed out before that when things like this happen, there needs to be a news article.
I personally didn't know that there was a monthly blog of what was going on, never seen it mentioned before.

Note: There needs to be a news article when it's going stable. No need for ~arch users who know their way around gentoo.org, the forums, google and last but not least, their system. Want your Gentoo with cushions, don't accept ~arch keyword.


I disagree in this case. Simply because something was being pulled in that was outside the normal expectation, ie systemd.
Normally I would agree with your take on ~arch pkgs.

I don't need cushions, but since there was more than one thread about this,
then it's obvious that others had no idea what was going on.
Just because people use ~arch it doesn't mean they're all knowing
and perhaps they shouldn't be using ~arch, but how else does one learn.
And if you choose to look down on others because they aren't
as knowledgeable as you at this point in time, that's your choice.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hit this block this AM but had already read this thread.

@ssuominen, I have to agree that a news item before these changes hit the tree would've been nice, even if an updated news item was coming down the road. That said, you provided prompt advice on the Forums and I've really got very little to complain about. Thanks for being active on the Forums. :)

- John
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think ssuominen did a good job of addressing the issue when it was brought up.

I ask forgiveness for my "incompetent" comment earlier.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
It is not a surprising news that upstream of the *kit crap will do anything to forcibly pull in systemd.

Agree, gnome move has just open the Pandora's box.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
And if you choose to look down on others because they aren't
as knowledgeable as you at this point in time, that's your choice.

I say this as someone who more than once was greeted with a non-booting system as an ~arch user - because of some corner-case of my particular setup. I didn't open an angry thread, I didn't attack a dev, I chrooted from the rescue stick and looked up what was the cause. Making people aware of this != looking down on others...
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