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miroR
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Libav (Avconv) Imposition on Users who want FFmpeg Reply with quote

There was, somehow, part of the same post as the opening post of this topic of mine, appeared in bottom here.

Since I don't delete my posts, were they even compromising of me, I will not delete the post itself, but the content, because it is completely contained in the first post of the topic, and does not contain but only a part of the first post of the topic. Thanks.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
Ctrl+a, Ctrl+c
>nano miror
Ctrl+v, Alt+w, push enter key
>wc -w miror
1474 miror

And that for what?
miroR wrote:
I most certainly can not claim anything here.


If you have something to say, should we cut half Amazonia to provide you paper?
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat.

This is a philosophical question, or a political one if you might.

If you want support at technical level, please, feel free to open a new thread, preferably one that's readable and that actually helps people to help you.

If you feel that the default for virtual/ffmpeg is wrong, open a bug about that at bugs.gentoo.org

If you fee that virtuals should not exist, become a developer, gain some backing from relevant members, create a GLEP and offer an alternative on how to handle all the stuff that virtuals handle. Luck with that.
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miroR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
Code:
Ctrl+a, Ctrl+c
>nano miror
Ctrl+v, Alt+w, push enter key
>wc -w miror
1474 miror

And that for what?
miroR wrote:
I most certainly can not claim anything here.


If you have something to say, should we cut half Amazonia to provide you paper?

I have an urgent issue before me (and was away and really busy in this meantime so I'm posting this quick note only).

Pls. accept only this much from me for now i92guboj, as well. Along with my appreciation.

Thank you.
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miroR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only now found just a litlle bit of time to dedicate to this issue.
I''ll disregard Krinn...
i92guboj wrote:
Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat.

Probably correct move.
i92guboj wrote:

This is a philosophical question, or a political one if you might.

Yes it is.
i92guboj wrote:

If you want support at technical level, please, feel free to open a new thread, preferably one that's readable and that actually helps people to help you.

No, I didn't need help here. I tried to point other users to that information (esp. newbies who are via various machinations imposed Libav and MPlayer2, instead of given the choice). So I suggest readers to spread the information (I admit it is imperfect in the post above from me, but it is mostly correct).
i92guboj wrote:
If you feel that the default for virtual/ffmpeg is wrong, open a bug about that at bugs.gentoo.org
If you fee that virtuals should not exist, become a developer, gain some backing from relevant members, create a GLEP and offer an alternative on how to handle all the stuff that virtuals handle. Luck with that.

The bug that I linked to, I hope suffices, and regardless how I wish that I could help, as Alexis Ballier in that bug suggests to others and me in that bug:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525070#c10
I don't have the resources to do so, at this time.
I appreciate your suggestions, and I hope I will, with time, maybe still be able to help with my testing, regardless of my old age (57; and a late adopter).
Thank you.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

miroR wrote:
No, I didn't need help here. I tried to point other users to that information (esp. newbies who are via various machinations imposed Libav and MPlayer2, instead of given the choice). So I suggest readers to spread the information (I admit it is imperfect in the post above from me, but it is mostly correct).

Sorry, I just don't see it. My two main machines, there's one with libav, one with ffmpeg. The virtual solution is perfectly fine, and these choices are all over the place (see: mysql/mariadb, udev/eudev/systemd, there's even virtual/package-manager).
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miroR
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
miroR wrote:
No, I didn't need help here. I tried to point other users to that information (esp. newbies who are via various machinations imposed Libav and MPlayer2, instead of given the choice). So I suggest readers to spread the information (I admit it is imperfect in the post above from me, but it is mostly correct).

Sorry, I just don't see it. My two main machines, there's one with libav, one with ffmpeg. The virtual solution is perfectly fine, and these choices are all over the place (see: mysql/mariadb, udev/eudev/systemd, there's even virtual/package-manager).

You mean newbies won't end up with 1 yr old mplayer? They don't need to unmask it?

I've got it unmask, works fine, but I don't have any libav nor MPlayer2, and am only asking this for them, as I also can not be back to reply promptly due to issues unrelated with here...
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be stuff for a wiki entry I guess. Gentoo Multimedia / I'm sure sth like that exists already and can easily be amended.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

miroR wrote:
genstorm wrote:
Sorry, I just don't see it. My two main machines, there's one with libav, one with ffmpeg. The virtual solution is perfectly fine, and these choices are all over the place (see: mysql/mariadb, udev/eudev/systemd, there's even virtual/package-manager).

You mean newbies won't end up with 1 yr old mplayer? They don't need to unmask it?

miro ... this seems to me an entirely different question altogether, the package is masked because it will break on libav users, and that seems like an entirely reasonable use of package.mask.

As for your insistence of a state of affairs amounting to the "imposition of libav", and its "political" nature, we seem to have the following possible solution(s):

1. have virtual/ffmpeg default to media-video/ffmpeg (or in other words, the "imposition of ffmpeg").
2. remove support for libav entirely (or in other words, the "imposition of ffmpeg").
3. the recognition that there is no straightforward way of dealing with such a problem, it would have been better all round had there not been a fork (generally its end users who suffer), but given there are now two competing implementations some method of keeping some level of choice available is needed ... and that seems to be what we have (though, again, its end users who suffer because it makes things more complicated, particularly as something has to provide the default ... but I can't imagine its made developers life any easier ITR).

So, I think your seeing political trickery where there is none, and unless you advocate media-video/ffmpeg as the default and/or only option, and accept it as similarly an "impossition", then I can't see what else you think might be the correct solution to this (imagined) problem.

best ... khay
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mv
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see this whole issue only from the user perspective:
We have two different libraries (as I understand, libav removed much of the previous ffmpeg functionality, which is also the reason why mplayer will never again be able to compile with libav), but for political reasons the soname of the new library is not changed.

Well, gentoo has a method to work with such a situation: It is called eselect.
This allows the user to install two colliding sets of files side by side, and the user may switch between them - it's not perfect, since only one library can be ued at any given time, but its better than forcing the user who wants to switch occassionally to do heavy reainstallation.
The mplayer ebuild could call the corresponding eselect before/after compilation as needed - similarly, as it already happens since many years with e.g. nvidia and xorg/nouveau mesa implementation.

Of course, somebody would have to write the code for the eselect and to patch the ebuilds, but I guess if that need is announced, there would be volunteers.

An even better solution would be to rename the colliding files during installation and patch the packages using it: I think essentially only some paths in headers and the .pc file would have to be taken care of. This way, users could simply install ffmpeg and libav side by side and could use all programs without cumbersome eselect.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
An even better solution would be to rename the colliding files during installation and patch the packages using it: I think essentially only some paths in headers and the .pc file would have to be taken care of. This way, users could simply install ffmpeg and libav side by side and could use all programs without cumbersome eselect.

Totally agree as this:
Quote:
We have two different libraries (as I understand, libav removed much of the previous ffmpeg functionality, which is also the reason why mplayer will never again be able to compile with libav), but for political reasons the soname of the new library is not changed.
is complete bullsh1t.
Whoever made such a crappy decision upstream, should be ashamed of themselves, afaic.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since long in our bugzilla I advocate to unmask ffmpeg. If you have a Gentoo~testing this will run perfectly
Code:
[ebuild   R   #] media-video/ffmpeg-2.4.4:0/54.56.56  USE="-3dnow -3dnowext X aac aacplus -alsa (-altivec) amr -amrenc (-armv5te) (-armv6) (-armv6t2) (-armvfp) -avx -avx2 -bindist -bluray -bs2b bzip2 cdio -celt -cpudetection -debug -doc encode -examples faac fdk -flite -fma3 -fma4 fontconfig frei0r -fribidi -gme -gnutls gsm hardcoded-tables iconv -iec61883 -ieee1394 -jack jpeg2k -ladspa libass -libcaca libsoxr -libv4l lzma (-mips32r2) (-mipsdspr1) (-mipsdspr2) (-mipsfpu) mmx mmxext -modplug mp3 (-neon) network -openal opengl -openssl opus -oss -pic pulseaudio -quvi rtmp -samba schroedinger sdl speex sse sse2 sse3 sse4 -sse4_2 -ssh ssse3 -static-libs {-test} theora threads truetype twolame v4l vaapi vdpau vorbis vpx wavpack webp x264 x265 -xop xvid zlib -zvbi" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" FFTOOLS="aviocat cws2fws ffescape ffeval ffhash fourcc2pixfmt graph2dot ismindex pktdumper qt-faststart trasher" 0 KiB
[ebuild   R    ] virtual/ffmpeg-9-r1  USE="X encode gsm jpeg2k mp3 opus sdl speex theora threads truetype vaapi vdpau x264" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 0 KiB
[ebuild   R   #] media-video/mpv-0.7.1  USE="X -alsa -bluray -bs2b -cdio cli -doc-pdf -dvb -dvd -dvdnav egl enca encode iconv -jack -joystick jpeg -ladspa -lcms libass -libcaca -libguess -libmpv -lirc -lua -luajit mpg123 -openal opengl -oss -portaudio -postproc pulseaudio -pvr -samba sdl (-selinux) v4l vaapi vdpau -vf-dlopen -wayland -xinerama -xscreensaver xv" 0 KiB
[ebuild   R   *] media-video/vlc-2.2.9999:0/5-7::pmaci  USE="X a52 -aalib -alsa (-altivec) -atmo (-audioqueue) -avahi avcodec avformat -bidi -bluray cdda -cddb -chromaprint dbus -dc1394 -debug -dirac -directfb (-directx) dts dvb dvbpsi dvd (-dxva2) egl encode faad fdk ffmpeg flac fluidsynth fontconfig gcrypt -gme -gnome -gnutls -growl -httpd -ieee1394 (-ios-vout) -jack kate kde libass -libcaca -libnotify libsamplerate -libtar libtiger -linsys -lirc -live -lua (-macosx) (-macosx-audio) (-macosx-dialog-provider) (-macosx-eyetv) (-macosx-qtkit) (-macosx-quartztext) (-macosx-vout) matroska (-media-library) mmx -modplug mp3 mpeg mtp musepack -ncurses (-neon) ogg -omxil -opencv opengl -optimisememory opus png postproc -projectm pulseaudio qt4 (-qt5) -rdp rtsp -run-as-root -samba schroedinger -sdl -sdl-image -sftp -shout -sid -skins speex sse -svg swscale taglib {-test} theora -tremor truetype twolame -udev -upnp v4l vaapi -vcdx vdpau -vlm -vnc vorbis wma-fixed x264 xcb xml xv -zvbi" 0 KiB
[ebuild   R    ] media-plugins/gst-plugins-libav-1.2.4:1.0  USE="orc" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 0 KiB

Remember:
mplayer -> mplayer2 -> mpv
As of today mpv is an even better experience to use than vlc. A great new project!
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mv
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Remember:
mplayer -> mplayer2 -> mpv
As of today mpv is an even better experience to use than vlc.

Except if you want recording/encoding: In this case there is no substitute for mencoder of mplayer. All my attempts to use only ffmpeg or libav (or even worse: the poor substitutes of mplayer2 or even worse mpv) failed horribly: At lot of functions are missing (e.g. n-pass encoding), an awful A/V-desyncronisation happens regularly (in all versions!), etc. Perhaps there are some input-/output-combinations of formats and containers which do work, but most don't.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mv
"Linux philosophy" is one tool for one task. Wy do you think of encoding tasks, when talking about the decoding viewer? If you need an expert appication regarding trancoding: handbrake?

PS:I just see, I have enabled encode as USE flag myself :)
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mv
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Wy do you think of encoding tasks, when talking about the decoding viewer?

The mplayer project consists of the mplayer and of the mencoder. The other projects have crippled half of it, so they are regressions.
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miroR
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:

...
The mplayer project consists of the mplayer and of the mencoder. The other projects have crippled half of it, so they are regressions.

So well said. I cited your words.
I only want to thank Gentoo devs, for sorting these things.
FFmpeg is not anymore dependent on supporting lliban
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