Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
blackbox woes on ppc (Gentoo 1.4.3.11)
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Portage & Programming
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
arris
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: right here in Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:47 am    Post subject: blackbox woes on ppc (Gentoo 1.4.3.11) Reply with quote

I'm trying to do an emerge -u world and keep getting the following error from blackbox

make[3]: *** [blackbox.cat] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/da_DK'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1'
make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2

!!! ERROR: x11-wm/blackbox-0.62.1-r3 failed.
!!! Function commonbox_src_compile, Line 114, Exitcode 2

can anyone help ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meowsqueak
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1549
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to see the actual error - you've just pasted info after that, showing make bailing out of the directories. Please post everything after the very last command that executed without an error.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arris
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: right here in Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for looking at this.

Here is the output just before the error right up to the first error

Making all in C
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0 .62.1/nls/C'
awk -f ./../convert.awk header=../blackbox-nls.hh \
output=Translation.m ./BaseDisplay.m ./Basemenu.m ./Configmenu.m ./Icon. m ./Image.m ./Screen.m ./Slit.m ./Toolbar.m ./Window.m ./Windowmenu.m ./Workspac e.m ./Workspacemenu.m ./blackbox.m ./common.m ./main.m ./bsetroot.m
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0. 62.1/nls/C'
Making all in da_DK
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0 .62.1/nls/da_DK'
Translation.m:8: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:9: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:24: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:27: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:28: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:29: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:31: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:32: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:47: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:57: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:59: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:100: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:102: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:109: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:113: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:121: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:122: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:123: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:124: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:139: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:151: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:154: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:159: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:160: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:161: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:167: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:168: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:169: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:170: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:184: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:185: invalid character: message ignored
make[3]: *** [blackbox.cat] Error 1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ozonator
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 591
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had the same error here earlier, iBook, gcc 3.2.3-r2. Haven't had time to consider whether or not to post to bugzilla, but I didn't find any reported bug that would match this.

In case it might help, USE flags are "oss xv nls mitshm gif ppc cups foomaticdb gnome-libs gdbm erkdb slang readline guile sdl gpm tcpd pam libwww perl python esd imlib motif scanner X gtk gtk2 gnome usb ssl opengl alsa pda gphoto2 jpeg png tiff dvd mpeg oggvorbis encode mozilla tetex quicktime -kde -qt -qtmt -arts bonobo evo gb gtkhtml imap mbox -maildir zlib crypt truetype -matrox pdflib tcltk"

For completeness, CFLAGS are "-Os -pipe -mcpu=750 -fsigned-char -mpowerpc-gfxopt -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meowsqueak
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1549
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That 'invalid character' message isn't an error - I see that all the time with fluxbox/blackbox. I suspect the error is somewhere further down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ozonator
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 591
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meowsqueak wrote:
That 'invalid character' message isn't an error - I see that all the time with fluxbox/blackbox. I suspect the error is somewhere further down.


Other than the 'configure' step, there's not much else that seems to get done by the ebuild -- it seems to do the language-related stuff (docs, translations) right after 'configure', then spits out the translation errors, and stops.

There are a couple warnings at the beginning; with context:
Code:
>>> Unpacking blackbox-0.62.1.tar.gz to /var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work
>>> Source unpacked.
util/Makefile.am:9: bad macro name `_SOURCES'
util/Makefile.am:10: bad macro name `_LDADD'
util/Makefile.am:9: invalid unused variable name: `_SOURCES'
util/Makefile.am:10: invalid unused variable name: `_LDADD'
creating cache ./config.cache
checking for a BSD compatible install... /bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes


And then the configure step continues, apparently as it should, without any errors reported. It's when it's working in the nls subdirectory that it chokes, as reported already; here's what I see (seems the same as quoted above), with a little more context:

Code:
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
sed -e "s,@defaultmenu@,/usr/share/commonbox/menu," \
        -e "s,@pkgdatadir@,/usr/share/commonbox," \
        -e "s,@version@,0.62.1pre0," \
         ./blackbox.1.in > blackbox.1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
Making all in nls
make[2]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls'
Making all in C
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/C'
awk -f ./../convert.awk header=../blackbox-nls.hh \
        output=Translation.m ./BaseDisplay.m ./Basemenu.m ./Configmenu.m ./Icon.m ./Image.m ./Screen.m ./Slit.m ./Toolbar.m ./Window.m ./Windowmenu.m ./Workspace.m ./Workspacemenu.m ./blackbox.m ./common.m ./main.m ./bsetroot.m
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/C'
Making all in da_DK
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/da_DK'
Translation.m:8: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:9: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:24: invalid character: message ignored


It then spits out more invalid character errors, then quits with the same error reported in the first post here.

Any other information that might be pertinent? Or, is there a way I can get around this, by compiling without the additional language support?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arris
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: right here in Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK here goes, this is the whole session, I don't see any more errors than what I already posted but this may help :-

tourbillon root # emerge -u world
Calculating world dependencies ...done!
>>> emerge (1 of 3) x11-wm/blackbox-0.62.1-r3 to /
>>> md5 src_uri ;-) blackbox-0.62.1.tar.gz
>>> Unpacking source...
>>> Unpacking blackbox-0.62.1.tar.gz to /var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work
>>> Source unpacked.
util/Makefile.am:9: bad macro name `_SOURCES'
util/Makefile.am:10: bad macro name `_LDADD'
util/Makefile.am:10: invalid unused variable name: `_LDADD'
util/Makefile.am:9: invalid unused variable name: `_SOURCES'
creating cache ./config.cache
checking for a BSD compatible install... /bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes
checking for working aclocal-1.4... found
checking for working autoconf... found
checking for working automake-1.4... found
checking for working autoheader... found
checking for working makeinfo... found
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc -O3 -pipe -mcpu=750 ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc -O3 -pipe -mcpu=750 ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for c++... g++
checking whether the C++ compiler (g++ -O2 -pipe ) works... yes
checking whether the C++ compiler (g++ -O2 -pipe ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C++... yes
checking whether g++ accepts -g... yes
checking for a BSD compatible install... /bin/install -c
checking for sed... sed
checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
checking for ANSI C header files... yes
checking for ctype.h... yes
checking for dirent.h... yes
checking for fcntl.h... yes
checking for libgen.h... yes
checking for locale.h... yes
checking for nl_types.h... yes
checking for process.h... no
checking for signal.h... yes
checking for sys/stat.h... yes
checking for sys/time.h... yes
checking for sys/types.h... yes
checking for sys/wait.h... yes
checking whether time.h and sys/time.h may both be included... yes
checking for basename... yes
checking for getpid... yes
checking for setlocale... yes
checking for sigaction... yes
checking for strftime... yes
checking for strcasestr... yes
checking for snprintf... yes
checking for vsnprintf... yes
checking for catopen... yes
checking for catgets... yes
checking for catclose... yes
checking for t_open in -lnsl... no
checking for socket in -lsocket... no
checking for X... libraries /usr/X11R6/lib, headers /usr/X11R6/include
checking for dnet_ntoa in -ldnet... no
checking for dnet_ntoa in -ldnet_stub... no
checking for gethostbyname... yes
checking for connect... yes
checking for remove... yes
checking for shmat... yes
checking for IceConnectionNumber in -lICE... yes
checking whether to build support for the XShape extension... yes
checking for XShapeCombineShape in -lXext... yes
checking for X11/extensions/shape.h... yes
checking whether to include the Slit... yes
checking whether to include the new WM Spec (DOES NOTHING)... no
checking whether to include interlacing image code... yes
checking whether to include Pseudocolor ordered dithering code... no
checking whether to include verbose debugging code... no
checking whether to include NLS support... yes
checking for setlocale in -lxpg4... no
checking for gencat... gencat
checking whether to use the new timed pixmap cache... yes
checking return type of signal handlers... void
checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no

blackbox version 0.62.1pre0 configured successfully.

Using '/usr' for installation.
Using 'g++' for C++ compiler.
Building with '-O2 -pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include' for C++ compiler flags.

updating cache ./config.cache
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile
creating src/Makefile
creating util/Makefile
creating data/Makefile
creating data/styles/Makefile
creating doc/Makefile
creating doc/ja_JP/Makefile
creating doc/nl_NL/Makefile
creating doc/sl_SI/Makefile
creating nls/Makefile
creating nls/C/Makefile
creating nls/da_DK/Makefile
creating nls/de_DE/Makefile
creating nls/es_ES/Makefile
creating nls/et_EE/Makefile
creating nls/fr_FR/Makefile
creating nls/it_IT/Makefile
creating nls/ja_JP/Makefile
creating nls/nl_NL/Makefile
creating nls/pt_BR/Makefile
creating nls/ru_RU/Makefile
creating nls/sl_SI/Makefile
creating nls/sv_SE/Makefile
creating nls/tr_TR/Makefile
creating nls/zh_CN/Makefile
creating version.h
creating config.h
make all-recursive
make[1]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1'
Making all in doc
make[2]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
Making all in ja_JP
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/ja_JP'
sed -e "s,@defaultmenu@,/usr/share/commonbox/menu," \
-e "s,@pkgdatadir@,/usr/share/commonbox," \
-e "s,@version@,0.62.1pre0," \
./blackbox.1.in > blackbox.1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/ja_JP'
Making all in nl_NL
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/nl_NL'
sed -e "s,@defaultmenu@,/usr/share/commonbox/menu," \
-e "s,@pkgdatadir@,/usr/share/commonbox," \
-e "s,@version@,0.62.1pre0," \
./blackbox.1.in > blackbox.1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/nl_NL'
Making all in sl_SI
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/sl_SI'
sed -e "s,@defaultmenu@,/usr/share/commonbox/menu," \
-e "s,@pkgdatadir@,/usr/share/commonbox," \
-e "s,@version@,0.62.1pre0," \
./blackbox.1.in > blackbox.1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc/sl_SI'
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
sed -e "s,@defaultmenu@,/usr/share/commonbox/menu," \
-e "s,@pkgdatadir@,/usr/share/commonbox," \
-e "s,@version@,0.62.1pre0," \
./blackbox.1.in > blackbox.1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/doc'
Making all in nls
make[2]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls'
Making all in C
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/C'
awk -f ./../convert.awk header=../blackbox-nls.hh \
output=Translation.m ./BaseDisplay.m ./Basemenu.m ./Configmenu.m ./Icon.m ./Image.m ./Screen.m ./Slit.m ./Toolbar.m ./Window.m ./Windowmenu.m ./Workspace.m ./Workspacemenu.m ./blackbox.m ./common.m ./main.m ./bsetroot.m
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/C'
Making all in da_DK
make[3]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/da_DK'
Translation.m:8: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:9: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:24: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:27: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:28: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:29: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:31: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:32: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:47: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:57: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:59: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:100: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:102: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:109: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:113: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:121: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:123: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:124: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:139: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:151: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:154: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:159: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:160: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:161: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:167: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:168: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:169: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:170: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:184: invalid character: message ignored
Translation.m:185: invalid character: message ignored
make[3]: *** [blackbox.cat] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls/da_DK'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1/nls'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/blackbox-0.62.1-r3/work/blackbox-0.62.1'
make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2

!!! ERROR: x11-wm/blackbox-0.62.1-r3 failed.
!!! Function commonbox_src_compile, Line 114, Exitcode 2
!!! (no error message)

tourbillon root #

I'm wondering if it is an optimisation setting in my make.conf, I'm going to try to turn off the O2 O3 stuff and see what happens.

Arris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arris
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: right here in Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I think I have figured it out.

At least I have on my laptop, the language support must be broken somehow for PPC becuase my two x86 PC's installed this just fine. To fix it I just edited my /etc/make.conf and added -nls to the USE= line i.e. :-

USE=" -nls blah blah"

Hope this helpse someone :-D

Cheers
Arris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ozonator
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 591
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arris, thanks for the tip. I just tried this:

Code:
USE="-nls" emerge blackbox


and the compile went without a hitch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bonsaikitten
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 213
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackbox and perl break with the NLS Use-flag.

This also happens on x86 :-(
USE="-nls" emerge blackbox is only a temporary fix, I hope that it will be repaired soon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meowsqueak
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1549
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, yes, the -nls fix. I should have been able to tell you about that since I went through the same stuff a year or two ago - sorry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bonsaikitten
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 213
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meowsqueak wrote:
Ah, yes, the -nls fix. I should have been able to tell you about that since I went through the same stuff a year or two ago - sorry.


wtf? has this been buggy for so long and _still_ the devs are not fixing it in any reasonable way?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meowsqueak
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1549
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always been a problem with fluxbox for as long as I can remember - and I don't think it's related to Gentoo specifically. My memory is a bit hazy, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes up and says 'no, this works fine on any other distro'. There might be a bug filed for it - why not check?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arris
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: right here in Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonsaikitten is right the issue would be there on x86 too, I checked the make.conf on both of my x86 PC's that run gentoo and they alreay had -nls so that's why the did not see this on them. I probably won't see this on my other machines becuase I just pull down the tar.gz file and compile and install by hand and they don't ALLl run Linux (Irix, FreeBSD, OS-X).

Thanks for all the posts
Cheers
Arris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ozonator
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 591
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meowsqueak wrote:
Ah, yes, the -nls fix. I should have been able to tell you about that since I went through the same stuff a year or two ago - sorry.


However long this may have been a known problem, I think the most important question here is, what exactly is the source of the problem? Since this is something that didn't turn up in any search I tried in bugzilla, I've submitted it, so it's now bug 31774.

Yes, this is a problem with x86, too -- I just tried there and got the same output as on ppc. Don't remember having any problem with fluxbox, though (re-built about 10 days ago).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pYrania
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 650
Location: Cologne - Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really an upstream problem and i've yet to find a solution for this.
In the meantime -nls should do :roll:

-- Markus
_________________
Markus Nigbur
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ozonator
Guru
Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 591
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pYrania wrote:
It's really an upstream problem and i've yet to find a solution for this.
In the meantime -nls should do :roll:


Yes, we're fortunate there's a convenient workaround. Many thanks for your help, and in general for your work on this. Life just wouldn't be the same without (black|flux|open)box.... 8)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nickw
n00b
n00b


Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Pompey, England.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys, just had the same error :(

Got job for the forums... this would have beat me :)

Nick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Portage & Programming All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum